[Good news re the Berney Arms]

On 11/20/2015, 12:48:15, JennyMorgan said:

Berney has train access, is on a walking route, is next to a nature reserve and is well placed to catch the super rich gin palace trade so perhaps all is not lost. I think that if the planners have an open mind then perhaps there is hope. Just as a pub I don't see a healthy future but both The Locks and the Waveney River Centre have shown that being miles from anywhere can be a recipe for success. Perhaps Berney needs additional attractions, glamping maybe.

If you could come to some agreement with the adjoining land owner for access on Saturdays and get some form of made road through so that normal cars can get across even if it rains then I think you are pretty much there Peter. 

I guess you could even run a ferry service out from somewhere like Burgh Castle to offer the ultimate away from it all type break.

Now where did I put those plans for my entertainment centre, lol

[Good news re the Berney Arms]

So providing someone is happy to buy it and carry it purely as an appreciating asset, (which it may not be), with little or no return and in the mean time and lease it out, or if someone is prepared to buy it and use it as a lifestyle business choice it has a chance.

Unfortunately someone is going to have to buy the property from Pubco in the first place and that cost is going to have to be recovered somewhere in any business plan. if it is a pub chain then they are going to want a return on capital and the Berney, at least by recent history, is not capable of producing one with a few quid left over for the Landlord.

The lifestyle choice I fear would purely extend the current run by as much money as the new owner had to burn. If it is going to succeed it will need a professional management that are able to find something that recent operators have not.

The locks has land access and much of its resurgence has come from people attending from the road rather than the river. OK the Berney has more passing river trade but I doubt it is enough to warrant any major investment, 

[Lowestoft River Taxi]

both ends there is a floating pontoon so no problem with getting on and off.

 

[Is that the end of Swancraft?]

Just read a facebook post saying that Swan Craft were no longer hiring after this year, anyone with any further information?

Their boats always seemed to be amoungst the best turned out from any hire fleet.

[Life Jacket Maintenance]

With our first boat we got a couple of really old green auto life jackets, the cylinders were all rusty and they looked like they would just add weight to help put you out of your misery quicker.

Just to check I threw them in the bath and both worked perfectly.

We have a disabled daughter who can not swim at all and would not be able to contribute anything should the jacket not work, thinking maybe a foam jacket would be better we spoke to the local RNLI man about the possibilities of the jacket not going off automatically or needing topping up with air but his thoughts were the chances of it not working were so small that she was far safer in an auto jacket with a crotch strap than with a foam one.

 

[Life Jacket Maintenance]

Had two semi inflated life jackets when we returned to our last boat after a couple of months away last winter.

[Norfolk Yacht Station]

At Brundall you have the railway station, good service straight to Norwich and saves driving

[Tolls]

You have a real fire? Now that is luxury 

[Tolls]

How are you going to get an open fire through BSS?

[Tolls]

Coal is most definitely out 

[Tolls]

Actually Strowager I have just realised, although all boats occupy the same water there is a differential toll already, for some reason one class pays a lower price per m2, can that be right? Surely it should be the same for all, has to be the only fair way to do things?

[Tolls]

Actually technically you can Sorn the boat off but only at the start of a new toll year, you can't reclaim tolls once paid. the other issue is if you put it back in to use in October you still have to pay 12 months to use it till March 31st

[Tolls]

You have a fair point Mark but as boating is to most people seasonal I am guessing the end result would just be to double the monthly equivalent toll.

More importantly should the BA be allowed to keep the toll money when a boat leaves the system and then charge the same person again for their new boat and charge them 12 months even though their may be only 4 months left?

That was the point that the BA really peed me off and opened my eyes to just how many other things were wrong with the organisation.

[Tolls]

There is always one isn't there 

That is one to take up with he marina though Mark, not the BA I suppose they could argue they could get in another row if all the boats were shorter.

[Tolls]

dropping the price of an outboard dinghy I can agree with, think that is ridiculous but then if my only boat was an outboard dinghy, instead of something used once a year when the moorings are full and I had to moor the other side of the river to Surlingham Ferry, would it still be outrageous? And why twin engines over older engines? why not just put an extra £30 or even better £100 toll on boats over say 20 years old. That would encourage people to change to newer more environmentally friendly engine craft and also support the local boat building economy. Win Win

Just to clarify, I don't want extra tolls put on to any craft. all craft should be tolled exactly the same, purely by m2 area or even fairer length, as this is what takes up moorings.

Hire craft, really, in what other area would a commercial operator pay even the same as the general public. anywhere else preferential rates through volume would have been negotiated, certainly not pay 2.5 times the toll.

[Tolls]

What about outdrives? they can point in lots of directions.

Are the BA really missing a trick here? Petrol powered boats pay extra for Carbon Monoxide, Diesel boats pay extra for Nitrogen Dioxide, Bow thrusters double, stern thrusters treble, outdrives quadripple. A diesel twin outdrive boat with twin engines, bow thruster, stern thruster and a petrol auxilary outboard would be around £10,000, all totally justified in someones mind. and if they are Hydraulic Thrusters they can be used for longer, you know the ones the hire boats tend to have.

[Tolls]

What about Bow thrusters Dnks34, surely these are not only a luxury but, as they move water sideways, likely to wash away all of the banks, houses and any wildlife left that hasn't been poisoned by those boats that use petrol and as such produce Carbon monoxide?

New campaign, any boats with bow thrusters to pay triple the toll? 

 

[Tolls]

All for Banter Poppy but Banter doesn't involve serious calls for extra tolls on someone else's boat.

And I also think you are absolutely correct, if the Raggies learned to sail it would be great 

[Tolls]

Many Times JM, that is exactly the problem. 

Little experiment for you, fill up your bath, put a whole hand in flat and move the water slowly around till it circulates. Now put one finger in and try and move the same amount of water around. you are going to have to move the same anount of water to move the same size boat no matter the engine power.

Which one causes the most turbulence?

All you are doing is inventing facts to try and justify prejudice.

[Tolls]

You can only sensibly charge for the HP used which is relevant to speed. My boat has 740hp, if the BA are happy for me to plough 12 tons around at 30 knots then that is fair enough, I will accept that I am causing more environmental damage than someone drifting around at 6 knots using 50 hp. 

Unfortunately I am only allowed to go 6 knots which uses a tiny proportion of my engine power, due to hull length it is probably less than a 30' ex hire boat. my engines are ticking over so much quieter than the 30' ex hire. and they are more than likely better maintained and cleaner.

So on what basis should I pay more than a 1.5 BMC on a 30' ex hire other than actual water volume occupied

 

[Tolls]

There are always people jealous of others JM, plenty will be jealous of your two boats and residence. 

Put a Ferrari and a Ford next to each other on the street and see which one gets a key run up it. All the BA need to do is find the type of Boat that has the most reaching for a hypothetical key and they will believe they can charge at will.

 

[Tolls]

Has about as much basis in fact as bigger sails reducing the amount of wind available for wind pumps and so necessitating greater electricity usage for the pumps. Sails should therefore be tolled by size regardless of the boat they are on.

The BA will look to toll (tax) anything they can get away with and if they can find enough people jealous enough to insist that just because a boat cost more it should be Tolled more, they will try it. As I say, can't wait to see the exodus when it happens.

Affordability is irrelevant, being ripped off is something no one likes.

[Tolls]

3 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Strowager please dont suggest I am prejudiced.

If the only fair way is by size then explain why a toll for a dinghy is roughly a quarter of what i am paying for an 11m boat.  The figures just dont add up do they!?

 

 

 

 

 

Is this a 2.7m dinghy we are talking about? just asking

[Tolls]

And this is based on what research JM? sounds like total crap to me, espaecially as only half the power will be going through them. As to closer to the bank, get real, my props are about 12" out of centre but my boat is nearly 15' wide, that puts it a lot further away from the bank than a centre line prop on a 8' wide boat.

All your comment shows is exactly the attitude  I am talking about

 

[Tolls]

On 10/29/2015, 8:12:11, dnks34 said:

 

 

5 hours ago, dnks34 said:

The thing about it that I fail to understand is why people would want boats with seagoing capabilities for broads use when i would guess at 90% of them neither having the skills or intentions to ever take the boat out to sea anyway. 

I can totally understand the appeal of the internal fitout and luxury many of these boats will undoubtedly offer but offset that luxury against the increase in fuel and maintenance costs I would still prefer a single screw 50hp for broads use any day.  

As JM has indicated these boats just dont suit there surroundings and may have been causing the broads industry more harm than good? Certainly a different way of looking at things and not a viewpoint that should be dismissed. 

As I said I dont care what boat you have its not my money being spent but why buy such a vessel then feel agrieved at the costs involved and lack of infrastructure! 

Single and twin screw is a clear difference as is sail and power.  We only have to look at the cost of an annual toll for an outboard dinghy to see that the toll tariff is in need of tweaking. 

Im not suggesting that all seagoing vessels should be sent out to sea but at the same time I dont think its fair that a single engined and twin engined vessel pay the same toll tariff, there could well be more toll money in the pot if the BA started looking at it a little bit differently.  

Toll to value is probably an unfair way of looking at it but I dont see how paying more by number of engines could really be argued with.   Its similar to owning a 4x4, many people dont need them and will pay more into the system for having them.  

If people dont want to pay then they will move them away but I imagine that most will just get on and live with the cost and the broads could well turn out better because if it! 

 

This forum was actually started because its founder was fed up with people judging people by their boat and the perception that some were unsuitable for the Broads, I know as I was there.

Just from my point of view, I love using my boat at sea but just because I forgo just about all other luxuries to pay for it doesn't mean I can afford the fuel bill if I use it out there all the time. I actually love the Broads and have spent 10 years on them as a boat owner and prior to that another 5 as a hirer.

I can use my boat a few weeks a year at sea but, given its fuel burn out there. if I want to move it the rest of the year then it needs to be on a river system. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to have a boat I can use at sea, or that if I do I should be penalised on the Broads? 

There is no difference at all between a twin screw and a single on the river, 2 props spinning at half the speed just gives greater maneuverability. Horse Power is another Red Herring, a boat capable of producing 500 hp uses no more horses than a boat with 50 on the river.

Unfortunately the attitude of the BA, and that of other River users has ensured that I will be among the growing number that are leaving for exactly the same reasons.