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marshman
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Posts posted by marshman
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All of them i guess!!!
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I believe all dredging on the Broads, has to be approved by and in conjunction with, the EA. I may be wrong - not unusual as Griff will confirm!!!!
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Its primarily, IMHO for what its worth, is that it has little or nothing to do with the mooring charge, but more a change in social habits. Few just nip into a pub for a pint and many more mooring, will already have drink on board, bought from a supermarket at discounted cost.
The White Horse at Upton seems too be having issues, and that used to do good food as well, - the Ship, again in my opinion, has little or no chance of getting off the ground sadly. You need a vibrant village to back a pub and neither village have sufficient inhabitants to support a pub in modern circumstances. Times change and we have to accept it - you cannot get people away from their homes where life is too easy in comparison to going out - they have cheap beer, Netflix and you don't even have to move out of your chair.
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Yes , my apologies They do own land at Berney but from reading the last posts they had no impact on the Bistro plans - no one in their right mind realistically could hope ever to do anything with the old pub nowadays in the current climate, especially with no public road access. Pubs in the middle of villages are closing because few people drink out these days, so what hope has anywhere with no public road access, stuck out in the a**e end of beyond?
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It takes some stretch of the imagination to see at least 8' under Wroxham even in the early '80's - others clearly think otherwise but i never remember it being anything like that in my memory back to the mid 60's.
What you hove failed to take into current thinking, is that water levels continue to rise -thats unarguable and earlier posts some time back confirm that - slowly but inexorably rather than the bridges sinking!! That was also confirmed sometime back - regular surveys are carried out and they are not moving - apparently!
Spring tides vary for many many reasons - see earlier mutitude of posts.
I note nobody has blamed the EA - they control the dredging but I suppose that its easier to abuse JP, rightly or wrongly, as he is an easier target than Mr Philp Duffy, head of the EA
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I agree with a lot of what Vaughan says but it is a common mistake hereabouts to confuse the RSPB and the Norfolk Wildlife Trust - the latter is a whole lot more than just twitchers and do a better job than the the RSPB. Fortunately the RSPB own very little on the Broads, only Sutton Fen which has always been very private and the Strumpshaw Reserve.
The NWT have just bought and will manage some pasture, part of the Lower Wensum Valley, but almost in the City along by the waterworks and the old May & Baker factory on the ring road - the visitor centre eventually will work closely with locally deprived schools and this must be a plus. The Council don't help introduce nature to the people who they are supposed to educate and it is left to charities to do it - and good luck to them. Some areas of Norwich should benefit from such schemes.
I won't add my views about the large private landowners, one of whom does more harm than good and is adept at getting his face on the local news, but you have heard my views often on these avaricious individuals - enough said!!!
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One of the farmers interviewed was Mr Cator although I cannot remember which farmer was moaning about it running off the grazing pastures - that would suggest that it could well be an old grazing marsh that had been ploughed up and in my view probably is marginal land. If that is the case who would be surprised?
Too many of the old grazing pastures have been ploughed up and turned into "arable" land e.g. land up near Billockby on the old Yarmouth Road . Why should anyone be surprised - they flooded or are very wet almost every year so let it revert to its proper usage. I know, I know, the profit margin is less!!!!!!
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Presumably it would also hinder incoming tides - you cannot have it both ways!!!!
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Here we have a classic Forum conundrum - one poster says one thing, another says the opposite concerning the tidal stream!
Dredging in one place will only move that volume of water elsewhere, and I just cannot agree that the Broads are "a dangerous place" - the flooding of marshes etc" is exactly what is intended - why has it become a "dangerous place"? Marshes have flooded before and release it slowly, and it is not unusual for some areas to flood, such as Horning Ferry, Geldeston Lock and Brundall in the winter. Indeed it can happen in the summer- it was not that long ago that the Ferry Boatyard had to rescue large numbers of cars by tractor and trailer and that was not in the winter!
Whilst the sandbar may be present, its hardly altered the pattern of the ebb running longer down the Bure - that was happening 50 years ago with slack always being an hour or so later. Indeed I think its discussed in the Coot Club or perhaps the Big Six!
And lets finally perhaps squash this possible myth about Herring Bridge restricting the flow - according to the figures, it may have narrowed the river at that point marginally but it still has a stated width of 150 feet, whereas Haven Bridge has a width of 88' - its probably a lot deeper by Herring Bridge too. So now someone more knowledgeable than I can let me know how it can actually restrict flow when its wider and probably deeper?
The biggest place danger in Norfolk from river flooding is Southtown Great Yarmouth and if it overtops the harbour where the walls have just been raised again to prevent this happening then we could well see actual loss of life - apart from a few riverside properties the current spell has seen NO loss of life and relatively little damage to property - things have been worse inland with some places flooded causing extensive damage to property - I think Framlingham was pretty badly affected property wise, certainly more so than round here as people had to be rescued by boats.
Always be aware of unintended consequences of suggesting perhaps possible solutions!
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To be fair to the situation, we have had a lot of rain these last 6/8 weeks or so - even Monday we had another 15mm or so onto saturated ground.
BUT no one has died and generally its only marsh or grazing marsh that has suffered and done what its designed to do.
In all of this talk of class actions, has everyone forgotten about Haven Bridge? I am sure that that is narrower and if it is does this not negate the issue somewhat? Figures given for the Herring Bridge seem to vary quite a bit.
As far Meantimes comments are concerned, the tides in the Broads are unusual - in normal conditions, I always worked on 5hrs of flood and 7 of ebb to allow for the additional water coming downstream. Its certainly not 6 and 6 as it is out in the sea which is why the Aweigh app can get it wrong. Tides in the Broadland area have always had a mind of their own, being affected by so many factors.
And although its pretty irrelevant to the flooding and bridge issue, at New Mills Norwich there is no weir as such but actual sluices which are controlled, I guess by the EA, thereby actually controlling the discharge from the upper reaches.
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Albion was licensed for 12 guests and 5 crew if I remember correctly!
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I think The Ship was a "training" ground for the younger members of the family - who soon outgrew it and moved elsewhere. I think it was a good way to get started in the business but they were privileged to have the group backing them. I don't think they ever pretended it was meant to be part of the Group other than for that specific purpose. Long since lost track of them - making a fortune if they learnt correctly! But it was a very good restaurant for perhaps a couple of years!
Not a great lover of their general offering but must try The Lodge at Salhouse before that catches the habits of its sister offerings!!!!
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Small niche pubs, even offering consistent high quality food, now struggle and the Ship will never make it now - been closed too long and little or rather nothing, to attract passing trade, sadly.
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Its only marginally narrower than Haven Bridge and as it is in the working part of the harbour its probably deeper there anyway - I really doubt its having much,if any impact. Wouldn't the river just run more quickly if it was really making a difference?
And if it were acting as a "dam" surely it would have more impact on the Yare and Waveney?
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But thats exactly what the marshes ARE doing, isn't it?
However the events like 1953 were an entirely different issue as that was a large salt water incursion which is a totally different kettle of fish - so to speak. One of the breaches was at Sea Palling and a number of people died as a result of that - it broke through the gap and spread far inland.
Whilst I do not know the topography at Hemsby, I would guess whilst its tragic peoples properties are affected, my guess is that peoples lives are not directly at risk - please do not think I am being heartless but I guess thats part of the equation always being considered.
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Of course the "overflow" as you call it at Postwick, is always discharging water - by and large what is in our sewers is just fresh water coming out of our taps, showers, washing machines etc etc, and on days like today, rainwater as well. It doesn't discharge into vast soakaways!!!
If you think the smell at Postwick is bad these days ask Vaughan what it was like in the 50's just around Postwick bend where the whole lot came out lock stock and barrel, so to speak!!!!
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What you may have missed in the "out to sea" issue, is what happens if you "release" the Broadland water into an incoming tide at GY and then the possibility exists that water overtops at GY? They have only recently raised the walls within the Harbour to prevent such an event, which would probably kill a lot of people - although it inconveniences a few, the flooding in Broadland on the marshes has less direct effect on lives - although to be fair Griff is finding it harder!!
Of course there could well be some damage to property but generally if its inconveniencing people rather than killing them, and the marshes are doing what is intended. Having said that another 15mm or so today won't help!
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Why compare the Broads to the situation at Hemsby? Sadly whats happening there today has been happening for hundreds of years - wheres most of Dunwich gone?
I am trying to think of a Broad which has become unnavigable through neglect - I am sure others know better than me and will put me right.
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Its that pesky NW wind blowing again - the tides at Lowestoft were nearly 1M above predicted levels. Hemsby in trouble again I am afraid!
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That would be a sad loss - over all these years, Richard has put a huge amount of time and effort in keeping it running.
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It is always the EA who have final control of most water related issues - where it may have a minor impact is in holding a small amount of water back in an upstream area. Given its size, the overall impact will always be minimal.
At the moment, I am not sure its directly connected to the river system as I believe it is behind the flood wall so this would be a new area allowed to flood and perform its proper function. Currently I believe it is drained by "flap valves" which prevent water getting in but allow it out - presumably now they will work both ways.
However,I am a mere commoner and I could be talking a complete load of spherical objects!!
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In my early days of boating, a while back, one of my favourite mooring spots used to be alongside what is now shown on the map, as Dilham Broad just south of Honing Lock - we didn't get disturbed much, if at all, and made the mooring at Coltishall Lock seem a bit like Piccadilly Circus.
We both appreciated that and took full advantage of it!
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Indeed you may be right but that does not take into account the fact that the owner of the last section south of Honing Lock, does not want it restored and connected to the rest of the Broads!
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Vaughan - you must be getting old!! £250k???? Nearer £400k!!!
Its probably a stock boat - the last thing those type of builders want to do is lay off workers, so keep them busy building another boat!
The Maltsters
in Broads Chat
Posted
As explored elsewhere on this thread, there are a myriad of reasons but chiefly a huge change in social habits over the last ten years - why go to a pub for a drink? Most people go the the fridge - its cheaper and more convenient.
Just see from this thread alone how many pubs all around are closing? The few survivors will have to provide a good reason to go there, and if the food is not up to a better than "acceptable" standard then they won't go there just for a drink.
Personally I don't think the mooring fee has had any impact - if it had then the Granary would not be doing well! When I have been to the Granary, I tend to book - says a lot too that people will drive to the Granary. Would that many drive to the Malsters for a drink let alone a meal - I doubt it except on a lovely summers evening but even then?