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FlyingFortress
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Posts posted by FlyingFortress
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11 minutes ago, grendel said:
my research indicated (and i admitted my error too) that drop testing was fine for starter batteries, but for the deeper cycle leisure battery was a pointless exercise, as it would not indicate the battery condition, the test needed being a longer 20 hour discharge test (your deep cycle battery might pass a drop test of a high current over a short time, but if it doesnt store and let out the charge over a longer time could be next to useless for purpose), the reason for this being if there is a poor connection internally, the high current of the drop test will short through the fault, and present a good battery, whereas a lower current draw might not, leading to volt loss and possibly not charging when connected to the charger, a starter battery is always operating at that high current so such issues might not be apparent as much, but all the literature I found out there said for the Domestic bank that drop charging was pointless, and a slow discharge test was the viable option.
Thank you for that Grendal 👍
I did forget to mention checking the SG in each of my open cells and no distilled water was required.
Like I said in an earlier post 2 of my batteries are over 10 years old so I think I will stick with my maintenance routines that have served me well for the 30 years I have owned boats.
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Thank you for your helpful advice about the different batteries Vaughan.
May I now ask about your inspection routines for vessels going on hire.
Does anyone inspect the boats and have to declare them fit for purpose.
Does this happen at every change over,once a week,month or year.
Is there any form of function test on any of the on board equipment such as CO detector, heating, flame outs for cookers etc?
I only ask as Griff and BA had an issue with a flame out device IIRC. Not a problem with an experienced crew such as BA but could be serious for inexperienced hire crew.
Or indeed the freezing crew on the HW boat
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Sounds similar to my set up Griff except that I think I have a standard sized alternator.
Yup works well does it not
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So all this talk about batteries I thought I had better check my own.
3x domestic plus one engine start battery.
Each individually disconnected, drop tested,6x covers each on the 2 that are not sealed removed, level checked,12 covers replaced,4 batteries re connected and tools put away.
Probably 10 mins max 15.
Not too hard for an engineer to do prior to sending a boat out on hire
Took me longer to type this post ..,. possibly 😁
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7 minutes ago, Oddfellow said:
Absorbent Glass Matt - a sealed lead acid tech that is a significant improvement on standard plate cells. More expensive and requires a controlled charging sequence but with better output potential. Naturally, at least 1/2 as expensive again as a SLA.
Thanks 👍
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AGM batteries? A term I cannot recall.
Other than that once again great post from someone on the front line.
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I think part of the solution has to be either
1) manage expectations of the potential customer.
Or
2) throw loads of tech at the boat.
When I bought my current boat it was the first boat I had owned fitted with an inverter and a fairly meaty one at that 1800w continuous. The availability of shore hook ups was much more limited then and shore power was not available on my home mooring (this was over 18 years ago). A solution needed to be found as 4+ hours of engine running every day was simply not going to happen except on very rare days ie North South transit. A wind turbine was too intrusive so I fitted Solar Panels with a good management system. Eureka problem solved.
This proved to be an excellent solution until the availability of shore hook ups became more extensive and shore power available on my home mooring. Further investment was then made in a complete 240v system throughout along with an intelligent battery charger.
Yes this did cost me a good chunk of money but I know I have some batteries in my boat that are over 10 years old.
My point is initial investment has probably saved me a packet in the long term and I don't ever worry about power issues
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The rest of your post was equally informative.
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Don't really want to quote the whole post but the last paragraph hits the nail on the head.
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50 minutes ago, Tobster said:
From what I’ve seen, most of the newer Barns Brinkcraft fleet are really set up for this, with various different systems, ie solar panels, double alternators, battery monitoring and generators and don’t they have a battery meter on there dashboards.
So I guess it can be done, but may not be cost affective on some of the older boats in the various fleets.
Not only newer boats.
Some older ones were quite innovative incorporating 24v systems. I am not knowledgeable enough to give sufficient description of the benefits but I do know a man who can.
The only downside with a lot of Barnes innovation is the all electric boats that you need a generator on to boil a kettle.
I got to handle one of their hybrid boats a couple of years ago and was pleasantly surprised just how good it was. I only turned it around in a tight space just helping out the helm. Totally silent until I gave a bit of throttle to induce sternway when the generator started. Before this I have always labelled hybrid boats as a sap to the green lobby but I must say if I was having a boat built from scratch I would seriously look at a hybrid. I will add with gas bottles so I don't have to start a generator to make a cup of tea.
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48 minutes ago, andyg said:
The same as all the other yards do I'd imagine, run the engines 😉
But what does that achieve If the batteries are shot to start with?
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11 minutes ago, andyg said:
I thought I'd spend 10 mins watching hw webcam this morning. The cam that gives you an excellent insight as to what happens on A section. Ive seen about 6 boats come back in and a few more brought round for prep from the side dyke. Every single one that was fitted with sure power which was most of them got plugged straight into the posts. So a good 5 or 6 hour charge. So they do try to make sure the batteries are fully charged.
You can charge a shot battery for as long as you like. It will never recover.
I may also ask what are they doing to the ones that don't have shore power connections.
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1 hour ago, annv said:
Hi If yards fitted larger alternators or two alternators along with a advanced regulator this would alleviate many of he problems, also battery's dont like being left not fully charged when standing for any length of time. John
I did wonder if that may be a solution but as I am not really that up on charging systems I didn't want to suggest it.
Between you and Meantime you make some very valid points.
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Sorry bud
Wrong on so many fronts
A quick calculation reveals 25 years I have owned boats with diesel blown air heating.
I can only recall once having to start my engine to start the heating. This was when I had a battery in my domestic bank that had failed.
Battery replaced problem solved.
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53 minutes ago, Bytheriver said:
On the subject of diesel fired boat heaters which are basically truck cab heaters ( so turned on at the end of probably 8hours + driving) the usual advice for boats is to start the engine and run fast enough for the gauge to show a charge before switching on then run till unit is putting out heat (so the glowplug is at running temperature) then shut off engine.
These units have improved a lot in recent years & when hiring I always made a habit of trying to do a couple of hours cruising on takeover on the basis that the previous user could have well been in the yard since the previous evening
I never had a boat with external 240v provision.
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Hello Dan
Long time no see
As you say I really have no Idea if these folks were lying through their teeth or not.
All I saw was a really rough looking boat running it's engine late on in the afternoon when the sun was quite warm and they had the canopy open .
Usual banter with holidaymakers as I was walking my now elderly dog.
Conversation went something like this.
Wow you have picked a nice day to be out.
Yes it's the first time we have been warm since we took the boat out.
It's got good heating hasn't it
Yes but as soon as we turned the engine off last night the heater went off and we were freezing last night.
Did you not call the yard.
Not until this morning when the boat would not start then the engineer came and replaced a battery.
Just one
Yes. Should the heater work when the engine is off.
And so on. As my dog is very elderly now they showed me their 21 year old dog that was suffering and they were worried for him.
They did state that the engineer had said to put the oven on and leave it on overnight to keep warm and they were worried if this was safe or not. I then said about the CO detector. They then asked about a flame out device and I said it should have one.
They suggested that if all batteries had failed then should they trust any other mechanics on the boat and I agreed that maybe they should not.
I would have felt very guilty if I had reassured them that this was Safe and then they had been found dead this morning.
Using an oven to keep warm because a hire company cannot be bothered changing out domestic batteries is totally unacceptable IMHO
But then what do I know. As stated before I do not know what is acceptable when sending a boat out on hire.
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Thank you Andy for a very informative reply from someone who has been at the front end of hire fleet operations for some time.
It all seemed so simple to me but of course I am unqualified as I have never run a hire fleet.
I have however run ocean going ships under a quality management system all my career so kind of thought I had some little insight into how to run a boat.
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So down at Ranworth this afternoon. Beautiful day but a bit of a cold wind.
Around a dozen boats there all hire IIRC. About half of them with heaters running.
Bet you can't guess which one was running it's engine continuously.
Makes you wonder what kind of idiot installed the battery condition monitor on the dashboard .
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The bit I meant to quote was the but about the heating starting first time every time without starting the engine.
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4 hours ago, NorfolkNog said:
The last time we hired from Herbert Woods the heating didn't work all the holiday. In spite of several call outs and even taking the boat back to the yard the engineer just kept blaming us for not running the engine enough. I make use of every second of Broads time and probably cover more miles than most. We just had the oven on all week. Hirerd Humber Bridge in December and February and the heating started faultlessly every time without needing to run the engine.
I know this may sound controversial but I believe that is how boat heating is supposed to work.
Maybe the gas bottles being empty on The Lads Week was due to previous hirers having to keep the oven on all night to stay warm.
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Reading the above posts from satisfied customers it seems to me that all boats are fitted with heating
But if you pay extra for an Elite Range boat you will get heating you can actually use.
Please don't think this is a dig at HW as I assume any business can have bad days but I did think the advice to leave the oven on unacceptable.
I also found it bad that a boat should leave the yard this early in the season with shot batteries.
But once again I am not qualified to comment as I have never run a hire fleet nor have had cause to hire from one
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I stand admonished.
I have never run a hire fleet so have no knowledge what is an acceptable standard to send a boat on hire is .
FYI the boat in question did not have a facility for shore power hook up.
I also said the boat should have flame out protection. I said should because I was amazed to see that my boat when I bought it as a 10 year old ex hire boat did not. It passed the first BSC without it.
It does now 🙂
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As Mouldy said above.
Are these boats fit for purpose?
Is there some way of holding this company accountable on a purely safely issue?
They are branded and marketed as HW boats.
In the past I have always recommend to new visitors to The Broads to go with one of the big boys first as they have a huge range of boats suitable for all budgets.
I must say if anyone asked me now I would certainly say avoid HW at all costs.
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It's getting late now here in Norfolk and the temperature is dipping below freezing.
I do feel for that family out there on the HW boat.
IMHO this is unacceptable.
They also have a very very old dog on board who I do fear for in these temperatures as I know my elderly dog sufferers when she is cold.
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So What Is Going On At Herbert Woods
in Broads Chat
Posted
Rather than edit again.
Previous boat a 2006 ex hire boat and the one before that a mid 70's ex hire boat both had flame out devices.
But both of them from quality yards.
2006 boat ex Ferry Marine Horning
Mid 70's boat ex Richardson's