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batrabill
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Posts posted by batrabill
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It was dredged with a digger about 2 months ago. We approached drawing 3 foot 6 and very nearly ran abound about 20 yards from the entrance. Don’t remember the state of tide at the time.
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There are lots of exceptions to all sorts of rules.
Who has right if way if you come round a corner and a boat is stern-mooring on “your” side of the river?? You wait or go round them on the wrong side.
It falls into that common sense part of life.
But, I’ll have one more go.
I am sailing in my boat which has a lot of sail.
The river is quite busy.
I approach a corner where my only line of sailing without tacking is close to the wrong side of the river.
I’m fairly easy to see and my course is constant.
30 yards from the apex of the corner I think I may not make it - wind is annoying stuff and does all kinds of weird things.
I start the engine. As I reach the corner I realise I’m just not going to make it. So I engage the drive and keep on the same course for 40 or 50 yards. I clear the corner and turn off the engine. I haven’t changed course or speed.
Isn’t that ok?
The alternative is, at the last minute I tack across the river at 90 degrees to the bank.
Calling “I’ve got to tack” or “water” to sailors will get an instant response. On the Broads you’d have to pop over, and using diagrams explain the concept of tacking. Most have no idea what sailing boats are up to and while they might get the hang of it after while following you many still can’t work out why we’re zigzagging.
So in the no engine scenario, some lunatic in a sailing boat on the wrong side of the river suddenly turned across us! Madman!
I am suggesting that the first scenario is best for everyone.
It’s not right or wrong but better
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Haven’t done a side by side comparison but as I have always understood it the Byelaws are the Colregs with a few exceptions.
All the stuff about trying to avoid other boats is the same.
The flying of a cone to indicate you are a sailing vessel under power is one of the exclusions.
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We were repositioning our Yeoman from Martham to Horning. Yeoman are 21 foot keel boats with no engine, although you can put an outboard on a mount. The wind died to nothing and we were drifting away from Horning on the tide with the sails up. We asked a passing hireboat if they could give us a tow, which they very kindly did, "Have you broken down?" the woman said. What can you say? "Yes," seemed the best answer.
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There is no right answer to this, and it is easy to understand why powered boaters are often confused, but I'd like to offer a few thoughts.
1. The river is not a road where you drive on the left.
2. The colregs do not say "keep to the right" they say, "On canal and river waterways, vessels should keep as far to the right as is safe and practicable (Rule 9)."
3. Passing ANY boat is a 2-player sport. On the road you can say "I was on the correct side, any collision must be your fault." That isn't the same on the river. The Colregs are clear that both skippers must take measures to prevent an accident.
4. I know that sailing puts MORE pressure on the other skipper. Sorry about that.
5. When sailing on the Broads you very often find you are very close to the edge in terms of getting round a corner. The sailing boat will "pinch up", trying to get as close to wind as possible while still keeping forward motion. This will often be cutting a corner on the "wrong" side of the river. Around Benets there is usually tons of room to do that. If you try it in Meadow Dyke going up to Horsey it would be crazy.
If you look at the map of the Horning to Thurne mouth section you will see that it is full of 90 degree bends. It is rare to travel it in either direction without the need to tack.
6. You often don't know if you are going to make the corner until you get there.
7. On a busy river many who have onboards will turn them on if they are struggling to make the corner, "just in case". Sometimes its not needed, sometimes it is very useful. Many of these skippers are also hirers who sail on the broads once or twice a year.
8. The alternative is a late tack (turning 90 degrees to awards the "right" side of the river) which will probably be slow (speed is lost in pinching) and will be 90 degrees across the river. This will be followed by a second tack, now turning to head up the river on the right side. This takes time and impedes both flows of river traffic.
A late tack will often confuse other boaters (it is COMMON to be asked, "why are you zig-zagging all over the place?") and will put you side-on to all traffic.
9. So the least worst solution is often to give it a bit of gas on the "wrong" side of the river, and then carry on.
10. The obvious thing to stop confusion is not to sail upwind. But that's called motor boating and none of us bought a sailing boat to do that.
11. Sailing boats aint going away, so the more you understand our annoying ways the better.
12. Angry shouting is not acceptable. Sailors have to accept that many don't know what they are up to.
We try VERY hard to be understanding, clear in our "instructions", and grateful for the 98% who do their best to help.
Hope that helps
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Cobblers, is the Covid truce over???
It was great while it lasted.
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Currently I’m watching those who I presume think they are defending Churchill’s statue making Nazi salutes.....
Im sure Winston would be thrilled.
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7 hours ago, Chelsea14Ian said:
It may be here or on Facebook, someone made a very good point. There is a growing world wide problem of modern slavery. Protesters would be better discussing that a try to reduce and stop A very real PRESENT disgrace that is slavery now.
I think Policing will be tighter today.The London Mayor has asked people not to gather in large groups.He said there appears to be a raise in numbers of infection.
We’re back to the Save the Whales!
But why don’t you mention Porpoises??? Porpoise hater.
This is the opposite of a “good point”
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26 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:
To a great extent I agree, but I think there's still some mileage especially on the constructive side.
I do not think myself a racist, I have never thought myself a racist, but when I look back on my earlier years, and some of the views I had back then, I can see that those views, if I expressed them today, I would be branded a bigoted racist.
HOWEVER, the views I held then were held by many. Racist jokes were the norm. Bernard Manning was liked by many and held high in the comedy circles. Society changed. It's still changing.
This thread would not have existed had it not been for the militant side of the demonstrations. Had the demonstrators remained peaceful and law abiding, there might have been a few posts, but not the heated debate we've just had. I think "Clap for carers" has proved that. More people clapped for the NHS than marched for BLM yet it's the BLM that has been talked about on several threads.
I think the matter can be split into two separate issues. It's not just that further change in attitude is needed, but that it's the speed of that change that is questioned.
Whilst I cannot condone the specific actions of the "rent a mob" nor can I deny that those actions have made me think.
So, My view of the way forwards. Firstly and quite urgent is to have a quick audit of our statues (and other memorial edifices) to weigh up the reasons for those statues being there. This might not sound important, but in fact it is. It's very important.
I use Nelson's Trafalgar square as an example on the "remain" side. That statue does not celebrate "White supremacy" but "British Naval supremacy" in a time of war. This is not a racist statue, and if people find it offensive (apart from the French) it is those people who need educating as to what it means.
I do not have an example for a "remove" statue, but that is purely owing to lack of knowledge on my part. I have no doubt they do exist.
This country is what it is. it is a result of it's history, not in spite of it. That needs to be held in mind by the reformists (lets call them that for now) There may well be those who fear the "compromise too far" I am trying hard not to be one of them, but as long as there are compromises on BOTH sides, genuine progress is inevitable.
Spot on MM.
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2 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:
A recent report found that in 2018 there were more people worldwide who were classed as slaves than ever before , the current BLM movement wishing to destroy historic monuments would be better off spending their time picketing the Embassy’s of nations that still allow and in some cases support modern slavery .
You first
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40 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:
I don`t see the relevance! while they may be a part of German history they were recognised in their lifetime as Murderers and Criminals not heros or benefactors by a lot of their own country men let alone the rest of the world, so the question never arose.
Fred
Precisely, exactly!
Lots of people at the time of slavery saw it as evil.
Turned out they we right. Perhaps they’d be more deserving of a statue?
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I will tell the people I know who marched at the weekend they were mindlessly rioting and filled with blind hatred. My niece will be amused that she took her 4 year old and 2 year old for a bit of mindless rioting.
You don’t see it do you? You don’t even know anyone who is offended by the statue of a slave trader, do you?
But you all feel qualified to comment.
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Read back, it’s a catalogue of people coming up with Whatabout arguments. You don’t get it.
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Whatabout.....
Slavery is bad.
Please feel free to argue with that.
Racism of all kinds is bad.
Please feel free to argue with that.
Slavery as practiced by our nation was inherently racist. It was allowed because the slaves were seen as inferior human beings.
Putting up monuments to people whose business was slavery would be seen as insane now.
Read this for a little more nuance
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Frankly this just sounds like a bunch of white middle aged men endlessly saying “why is everyone making such a fuss about racism”?
You’re just refusing to accept that there is a problem, which funnily enough means, yes you ARE the problem.
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23 minutes ago, trambo said:
In 1933 the Nazi party throughout Austria and Germany had ceremonious events burning books that did not agree with their philosophy or interpretation of history, by removing the popular culture (or statues) of a period, are we not doing just that?
No. That’s a crazy comparison.
Statues are erected to celebrate, mark, laud, and promote people of note. If you can’t detect how offensive it is for a black person to walk past a statue of a slave trader every day you are probably white.
No history is “erased” by removing as statue of a slave trader. In fact many more people are now aware of the facts of the past and where a great deal of the wealth of this nation came from.
The Nazis comparison is false, and so far over the top it beggars belief.
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3 hours ago, batrabill said:
This is quite possibly the most untrue statement I have ever read.
I can’t be bothered to unpick it. If you don’t recognise quite how false it is then you really have a problem.
It is quite clear what tradition this thinking comes from.
The above is still true. Your original statement is completely wrong. There is enough evidence to swamp a slave ship that white people are NOT discriminated against in the workplace but those from ethnic minorities are.
It’s also a form of truth denial which shouldn’t have a place on a forum like this.
Im actually sorry to hujack this thread but if people post dangerous, arrant nonsense it must be called out.
Someone very stupid reading this might actually believe that white people are the subject of more racism in London than those of the ethnic minorities. That would be a shame.
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30 minutes ago, Paladin said:
"Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument." (Wiki)
Sorry, but I don't think my post fits that definition, but you did manage to avoid responding to the evidence I provided.
Nonsense. Yours just changing the subject. Not falling for that. Start a thread about African genocidd why don’t you?
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“Save the whales!”
Hey, what about Porpoises?? You people are Porpoise haters.
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Google “all lives matter”
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18 minutes ago, Paladin said:
I'd love to see you try to unpick that statement, batrabill. But before you do, you might like to read this article
and that's before we discuss the happenings in East Timor, Myanmar, Iraq ... shall I go on?
This is what is known as whataboutism
That is, someone highlights something bad, people rush in to say what about....?
It’s just a distraction.
I don’t have time in my life to address problems in other parts of the world, but when I see blatant racism in my own county it is my responsibility to call it out.
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Right.
This statement was not about East Timor or anywhere else. It was about London.
It states quite simply that
“there is far more racism amongst various non white cultures and institutionally against the domicile white population.“
Domicile can only mean white Londoners.
The claim is that white Londoners experience far more racism than anyone else, and that it’s “institutional”
This is Yaxley-Lennon doublethink.
Let’s review that, in London it is the white population that is the main victim of racism.
I’m embarrassed that anyone would defend this.
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2 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:
I feel confident in stating that while there are undoubtedly racist in the white community there is far more racism amongst various non white cultures and institutionally against the domicile white population.
This is quite possibly the most untrue statement I have ever read.
I can’t be bothered to unpick it. If you don’t recognise quite how false it is then you really have a problem.
It is quite clear what tradition this thinking comes from.
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Dangerous Activity
in Broads Chat
Posted
I understand why the BA want to discourage swimming. But we’ve swum dozens of times this year in Womack, as have our neighbours, and also Hickling, South Walsham, West Somerton and others I’ve forgotten. I’ve had a terrible spell of finger cuts from clumsy cooking all summer. So have had a series of open wounds.
I’ve also gardened all summer - and shhh... don’t tell anyone but rodents, birds, reptiles, dogs, cats, deer, foxes, voles and a million others, they ALL just poo and pee right on the ground! Don’t use loos at all! Hazard!
I loath the snowflake term, but doing things like having a cooling dip in a river used to be called “life”. Now it’s a hazard.
“Like my mamma said, you only live till your dead” It’ll Shine When It Shines. Ozark Mountain Daredevils