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batrabill
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Posts posted by batrabill
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No one going to answer the question ?
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Genuine question: if you are serious about all this stuff, don’t you have to sort this....
The National Parks website lists 15 NPs.
Since the objective I assume, is to never have anyone refer to the Broads as an NP, aren’t you on a hiding to nothing is the UK National Parks does exactly that?
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12 minutes ago, Paladin said:
Yes they do and yes there is. Someone also has to be paid to clean up the streets when rubbish is strewn around (perhaps wind-blown rather than littered), and sweep the leaves up in the autumn. There is a statue of a venerable judge in the centre of Chelmsford, for example, that is often to be seen wearing a traffic cone on its head, particularly at weekends. Someone has to come along with a ladder to climb up and remove it.
Jolly japes indeed. If we don't have a sense of humour, we turn into Victor Meldrews.
I would have thought you were in favour of not wasting your toll and Council tax money. I think saying its a joke is a bit thin...
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Just now, Paladin said:
I doubt that any member would support damaging anyone's property, particularly as that could lead to a criminal prosecution for that person and for anyone aiding and abetting them. But I very much doubt that covering something with a piece of plastic(?) would cause any damage, unless the plastic was glued or nailed on.
And what happens then?
Someone has to go and remove the "bit of plastic". That someone has to be paid.
There's a cost to jolly japes.
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4 minutes ago, Vaughan said:
He is not a woman and that is not my opinion, but a fact. I went to school with him.
He uses the name of the vane of a Norfolk Wherry as his avatar on this forum.
I am aware of that Vaughan, but I am banned from using his real name as he is banned from using mine. It’s a long story.
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27 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:
I came to the Broads several decades ago purely as a holidaymaker with no preconception of what I was about to experience, for many years having fallen in love with the area I just returned to enjoy its ambience, as time has passed I have taken a bigger interest in the area as a whole especially once I became a boat owner spending more and more time in fact all my leisure time on my boat consequently joining this forum, meeting numerous people including BA staff and have spoken to JP himself while also observing the changes that have taken place so my opinions have been formed over a period of time by personal experience in much the same way as my opinions on the conduct of my local authority and national government have been formed and whether anyone else agrees with them or not they are opinions largely based of fact, some of what I see I am happy with some I am not, when I express displeasure about a topic it is on that topic alone and the affect it has or could have on the future as I see it that is not prejudice it is simply an expression of concern, over the many decades of my life I have witnessed or experienced many attempts to circumvent existing regulations or laws often simply by establishing something by repetition or by putting something in place and then legitimising it retrospectively.
Fred
Fred I respect your view and have no beef with any individual - I rather admire the Jenny woman for her relentless work on one side of the debate. But we ALL have prejudices and biases. I heard a fascinating report that those with the highest level of education - PhD and Masters were found to be most blind to their own biases. (They thought they were right because they knew they were clever)
So yes I’m biased and have my prejudices.
But for me, that is actually the point, and why I enjoy putting an alternative view here. I live on the water here in the Broads and it’s wonderful and beautiful.
I go on my computer and I read on here and on Facebook and elsewhere, that the Broads are in a terrible state, in the grip of one mans megalomania, and that if we don’t all rise up boating will be banned!
My bias is that I look around and that view appears to be just wrong.
If you don’t notice that many, many, many threads here are started with a negative view (spin) of the BA, then that is a bias.
Because life is short, I don’t want to go back and do the research, but I would stake my house on being able to demonstrate that there is a marked tendency for news to arrive about the BA in negative form.
I enjoy, as Marshman also said, putting the alternative view. Why?because I like this forum - it’s a local news site, but I don’t like seeing things I think are wrong go unchallenged.
26 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:I came to the Broads sveral decades ago purely as a holidaymaker with no preconception of what I was about to experience, for many years having fallen in love with the area I just returned to enjoy its ambience, as time has passed I have taken a bigger interest in the area as a whole especially once I became a boat owner spending more and more time in fact all my leisure time on my boat consequently joining this forum, meeting numerous people including BA staff and have spoken to JP himself while also observing the changes that have taken place so my opinions have been formed over a period of time by personal experience in much the same way as my opinions on the conduct of my local authority and national government have been formed and whether anyone else agrees with them or not they are opinions largely based of fact, some of what I see I am happy with some I am not, when I express displeasure about a topic it is on that topic alone and the affect it has or could have on the future as I see it that is not prejudice it is simply an expression of concern, over the many decades of my life I have witnessed or experienced many attempts to circumvent existing regulations or laws often simply by establishing something by repetition or by putting something in place and then legitimising it retrospectively.
Fred
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1 hour ago, grendel said:
still on about those speed restrictions you introduced to the discussion, to me the speed restrictions are just a red herring. diverting from the main discussion.
Grendel, yes you are right, but you introduced Gentlemen’s Yachts!
This was all about a harmless sign a long while ago.
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3 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:
Got me absolutely stumped, has that one! Just can't imagine . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Cap fit?
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That doesn’t really make sense Paladin(e). What you have said there is ‘I’m happy with my prejudices, and I don’t like the fact you don’t agree with me’
Didnt your attitude to the BA change greatly when your tolls went up a couple of years ago?
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37 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:
So you have finally caught on to JPs use of the NP branding well done.
Fred
Absolutely the BA, not JP, (another "spin" is "it's all one man, the people on the frontline are great") are Spinners. So is every single institution in the world...
To accuse the BA of presenting the facts to suit them is to be a child - of course they do.
But there is a ton of spin on here. If you cant see it it may be that you are suffering from confirmation bias.
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Cambridge Dictionary
Spin: a particular way of representing an event or situation to the public so that it will be understood in a way that you want it to be understood
Spin isn't untruths, it's presenting things in a way that supports your case.
Like talking about the speed restrictions and not mentioning that Sandford wasn't invoked.
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Good luck with proving there in no “anti-NP” spin from many on here.
See Fred above with the old Sandford stuff.
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On 09/01/2020 at 21:29, grendel said:
a post to consider - the response in another National park to the prospect of 10 recreational cruisers on the lake.
to those that say it could never happen - take note.
Heavens, this looks like a warning of what happens in “another National Park” that is, “bad things”
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3 minutes ago, Paladin said:
The promotion in the Broads by that vocal group is that the Broads becoming a national park (as defined) is a BAD, BAD thing, not that national parks themselves are a bad thing.
That is proven wrong on this very thread. The behaviour of NPs is used repeatedly to demonstrate how things will be worse if the Broads were a full NP. The fact that there is b****** all evidence is exactly my point.
The Broads is plainly a de facto NP and happily balances the principles of National Parks with the needs of navigation.
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Grendel, your Gentlemen’s yatchs case is even weaker than the speed restriction- by miles!
In Broads terms it’s like someone wanting to do the same on Horsey.
Always difficult to compare but the comparison seem similar.
How would a proposal like that be viewed by you?
I don’t have a strong opinion about Gentlemen’s yachts - I’m not even sure what they are - but it is you that introduced this story to back up your view about how NPs behave.
If the speed restrictions on Windermere are a weak example, then this is wafer thin.
Whatever the planning authority, I think any scheme which would change the ambience of an entire lake would quite correctly be looked at very closely
This proves NOTHING about NPs The Lake District or anything.
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The point here is this:
since I moved to the Broads from another part of the country I have been amazed by how often you hear negative views of National Parks as an idea. National Parks have good and bad aspects but on the whole they are viewed positively by people all over the country
Here in the Broads the story which is promoted by a very vocal group of people is that National Parks are a BAD thing. Specifically for boaters.
The speed reduction on Windemere is the most often used example to suggest NPs are anti- boating. (Is this the only example btw? Until the new plan to put 10 forty-foot boats on Grasmere )
But even this isn’t a very good example is it?
There is tons of boating on the Lakes. Boats are everywhere.
As a sailor I’m not fond of water skiers - they don’t mix well with other forms of boating and my personal opinion is that Jetskis are the work of the devil.
Its odd odd that a group that value the peace and tranquility of the Broads use going fast in Windermere as their only go-to example of the evil power of NPs!
The case that The Lake District NP is anti-boating is REALLY WEAK.
I don’t want the Broads to be a full NP.
There is no need.
It’s already an NP in every meaningful sense, and the Broads are in fine shape
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Go on....
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6 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:
Knew I had read this somewhere...
What is your point?
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2 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:
Go to bed then and dream of your desire to see the Broads being turned into a national park, where there are no boats, no pubs (not enough customers), no industry, no rivers, and only reed beds and marshes. I bet you`d love that mm?.
I’d be interested to see where Marshman said he wants the Broads to be a National Park.
Shouldnt be hard to find since you seem so sure that’s what he thinks.
I’ll wait.
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I live in Ludham and was dissapointed that the Parish Council came out against it.
There's a fine line between "character" and being a dump. In my view Ludham Bridge is a bit of dump and the development seems a sensible way to proceed. Change is the law of life.
I completely support CambridgeCabby's view.
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From personal observation, the vast majority of a accidents would be prevented if people indicated. If you are in the wrong lane, and it happens to all of us, the least you can do is tell other people what you intend to do.
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3 hours ago, grendel said:
Actually I was just pointing to it as an example of how other NP's use their powers to prevent things they see as unwanted, plus the irony of a message that says in huge letters at the bottom visit the lake district, on a publication that gives the message 'visit the lake district, but dont expect to be able to stay on a boat while you are here' and the conflict between messages that gives, maybe i should have started a new thread for that, but hey i was tired after a days training then a 6 hour drive home.
But Grendel, that’s still making a link between the mythical effects of NPs and things you can’t do.
It is equally valid to say “Welcome to the Broads but don’t expect to be able to get up on the plane on Hickling.”
The 10 forty-foot boats at Grasmere are a change from what was there before
If this was a plan for Ranworth inner would you be reacting in the same way? I suspect there would be howls of disapproval
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16 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:
And another thing, The Broads is the Broads, not The Lakes.
But you are being a bit cheeky there because Grendel said:
1 hour ago, batrabill said:to those that say it could never happen - take note.
... explicitly saying that what happens in the Lakes could happen here.
And you well know that comparisons with all the terrible things that happen in NP's has long been part of your story.
20 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:Water skiers might not agree!
No they might not, but you also know that waterskiing on Windermere was NEVER a Sandford-style conflict between boating and nature. It was much more about safety, noise, and the character of any area of naturaL beauty.
Windermere is thick with boats of all kinds. Tough for the waterskiiers, but like lots of people I don't think they should be there.
As I have pointed out many times, the Lake District happily stages a SPEED event on Coniston. Perhaps you'd be better off warning that they might want to do similar on Hickling if full NP status was achieved. Horrors!
I may start a petition - NO KILLER SPEED EVENT ON HICKLING!
IT MIGHT HAPPEN!!!!
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48 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:
Bill, just my take on it but surely all that Grendel is doing is in suggesting what could happen. I did post an RSPB report earlier suggesting that the Broads motor boat fleet should be reduced to just 50% of all the boats on the Broads. Whilst I don't think it likely under present legislation I have to be aware that the RSPB, for example, has almost bottomless reserves should it wish to sponsor another Private Bill.
With the greatest respect, anything is possible, but as adults we should surely try and judge what is important and meaningful and what is just scaremongering.
The Lake District has a complex and very successful relationship with boating which provides all kinds of boating. I’ve sailed on 5 different lakes.
There is little evidence that being a NP is “bad” for boating in the Lake District.
You are currently really pushing the RSPB line but do they really drive policy in the Broads? Or is it crying wolf for the millionth time ?
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Acle B.N.P.
in Speakers' Corner:
Posted
What is the obvious conclusion. JP
you do love a nudge nudge wink wink. An answer would be better.