Soundings

I actually think it is probably a missed opportunity - Potter and other places in Broadland. The focus nowadays seems to be on growth, building houses and encouraging new business onto business parks and the like. The planners want a slice of the "London" type cake these days - tourism just goes not cut it. Mark, I hardly think Potter can be compared to Yarmouth in its day. The latter was a destination holiday resort with all that goes with it. Potter was just, well, Latham's, the pubs and the boatyard. Not much to do there at all - other than to sup a pint whilst in the queue for the bridge pilot

True . It is nicer away from the river, up around the church. Some smashing walks around the back of Hickling Broad

Hardly ever visit the place, Alan. It is too much of a tip inside and out and the food bit is a joke, imho. Also what they stock this week they probably won't have next. Maybe it is different for us because we live here - I just don't see the attraction. Cannot argue with the fact that they do sometimes have some bargains.

At least that would be competition for Latham's . Only kidding, but I do hate that place!

You are probably right but then Acle, Wroxham and the like are big (ish) places. There are smaller villages where the pubs really do struggle, even the Ferry at Horning does not have the easiest of times in the winter months. In fact the last time I was in the Ferry, I got the impression that they had lowered their sights somewhat, especially from the point of view of the food offered. But you are right, cramming the Broads full of hire boats is not the answer and is not what is wanted. Perhaps it is all down to the fact that tied pubs have to try and deliver the undeliverable to their PubCos and that leads to an expensive establishment. More seen to be being sold off these days (like the Falgate, The Pleasure Boat) and perhaps that will be a turning point.

Don't know how many hire boats there are out I know Richos have been growing their fleet and their boating spread across the Broads. The number of the boats registered on the Broads is frightening though when you compare registered boats (private and hire) to navigable miles. The Broads are a finite resource and if there were 2500 hire craft back in the day that equates to 20 boats per mile based on 125 navigable miles. That is a lot of mooring and it is a lot more when you 1) bring the private boats into the equation, 2) remember that most boats remain north and 3) take account of the fact than not all boats can get under Potter and/or Wroxham bridges. Ok their may only be 800 hire boats now but there are loads of private so the resource is potentially under pressure, at peak times especially. I understand from historic data that there are around 13000 boats registered on the Broads (and growing), that is over 100 per mile. That is a huge density. I know they do not all come out at once but even 50% out is significant. And again I bet most are North. The problem is the broads are not just about boating, they are fragile and a balance has to be struck. One thing that does worry me - if businesses struggle with over 13000 boats on the rivers how will they ever succeed? But then a pub might have a mooring for a few boats but that in itself does not go anywhere near guaranteeing profitability or a steady stream of customers.

I don't have any numbers JA but I do live here and the Broads appear pretty busy from now on in and at the end of the day the rivers can only take so much. Too much traffic will do as much to deter holiday makers as anything else. Mooring, up North, is a problem when things get busy. Also the boats in peak season are expensive - you can get a package deal abroad for the same or not a lot more. And the weather will be far more reliable. I would not be at all surprised if the cost of the hire is not helping to keep punters out of the pubs and eateries - the books are balanced by shopping in Tesco and eating aboard. Whichever way we look at it - 18 weeks trade is not going to keep a riverside business going. That is what helps drive up hire fees; the yards have to fund development and survive the winter. I hear what you say re kid free boating but I imagine there is only a certain proportion of the boating population that can take advantage of it. Also how many want to boat in the bad weather that will probably accompany early and late season excursions. There are a few hardy soles no doubt but are there enough? Do not some of the yards already offer out of peak discounts to try and extend the season?

Well, you don't have to read it. That is what is great about forums like this

The holiday season, the peak season that is, has I think reduced if for no other reason than the way school holidays are administered these days. I drive past a very big yard pretty much every day and it is noticeable that outside the peak bits (half terms and the like) a lot of the fleet appears to remain idle. Either way I think from a Broads business point of view 22 weeks is not 52 weeks and certainly pubs and the like need winter trade to keep them going. As you say even back in the day Hoseasons would only guarantee 18 weeks.

I am only saying it as it is. Nothing is going to change materially - if it does the beers are on me (if the pubs are not all closed)

Don't think it is, or was, politics so much as economics, Alan. But yes I think I need to butt out of a socialist environment. I am probably right of Gengis Khan and have no truck with Daily Mail politics or its interpretation of the real world. Welcome to capitalism guys. Get used to it or emigrate to somewhere where it is better!

If you believe that you will believe anything. They will find other ways, the really big outfits are already doing that by outsourcing to third world countries. Globalisation changes the drivers significantly. It also impacts on marginal (small companies) and if you push the wage up too much they will fold. That means the jobs will be lost altogether and that really will cost the taxpayer - it is a fine line and I think the Govt has got it just about right. Political persuasion apart, I do not think the Govt necessarily owes people a living and nor do companies. I do believe Govt should help those that are genuinely disadvantaged. Companies on the other hand are for profit organisations and they are funded by shareholders. It is proper that those companies should do what is right for their owners. In addition, the British public do not help. We all want things as cheaply as possible and that drives prices down. Profits still have to be made so the only way to reduce prices is to reduce costs by a corresponding amount. We all tend to think taxpayers are the individuals that wander around the shops, work for companies etc., but corporates are also tax payers. They contribute also. That is capitalism and it is also modern socialism.

Yes it is indirectly I suppose. The company pays a wage and people are willing to work for it. That is choice, although I accept that the employees concerned are probably, for what ever reason, restricted in the type of job available to them. Understandably some believe the answer might be to set the minimum wage higher but the probability is that these companies would not employ them at the higher wage - thus the tax payer helps balance the books by making a contribution to the the employee not the company. The alternative is the low earners end up unemployed and the bill to the tax payer increases. I know which I prefer. We must not forget that these multi -million pound companies (that are usually global) pay a not inconsiderable amount of tax. Make the environment hostile and those that are global are likely to up sticks and re-domicile themselves. In any event it is not just the "big boys" that pay a minimum wage. Many much smaller holiday businesses do as well, so it across the spectrum.

I really would to see the tourism numbers and just how much comes from the Broads and how much from the the likes of Cromer and the North norfolk area. The season is very short and riverside pubs are struggling anyway - the only one's that do not are those that can muster some local support. In any event it is not for the Govt to fund business. It either washes its own face or goes belly up. That is the way of the capitalist world and whilst it is not always nice I cannot think of a better system. To be honest it is all this building that is probably going to help the pubs more than the holiday traffic - there are more pubs than just the riverside ones and they are struggling also. Yarmouth is an awful place. Could be great but probably needs knocking down and starting again. I hear the inner harbour is up for sale as it has not realised its potential. Was that not a local authority funded initiative?

I think the employment bit would be better if there were not so many non-locals employed by some of the service providers here. And I am not prepare to expand on that in open forum

This is a free economy and no Govt is going to subsidise uk business. If , say, Broads boatyards want to encourage visitors then they will have to drop their own prices and therefore increase competition - it is not for the Govt to give some sort of cash back. As for spending the "tokens", 90% of 500 might be better than nothing (if it does not create a loss) but it is not better than 100% and if a business is achieving that why would it want to take less. In any event people go abroad because they get some sun. I for one would not spend £2000 on a holiday in England that is totally reliant on our weather. Look at the last week! I do take your point about the UK holiday industry, but the weather here is just not reliable enough and overseas breaks are not expensive (comparatively). There are though some holiday centres that do quite well I believe - like London where there is plenty to do in the rain Tradition is that Govt stimulate business areas via tax breaks and the like which achieves the same objective that you are after. That IMO is not going to happen given the economic climate and the fact that UK holidays are just not so popular now that cheap package deals are the norm. Anyway the Broads are busy enough at this time of year!

Not sure I understand, Wonderwall . I hire a boat for £2k and I pay that money to the boatyard, yes? So where does the good old UK Gov get the money to underpin the Broads Pounds and why would profitable businesses want to sell their products at a discount?

Ubuntu is a nice reliable Distro. I ran it for a while but the available software was not to my taste. It does need some pro software houses to get involved in writing software imo but I suppose that is unlikely given 1) the number of users and 2) the differing flavours of Linux (Ubuntu, SUSE, Debian etc, etc, etc.)

There are two (or is it three) in Tesco and you can get cash out at the PO I believe. The PO route is a bit of a pain though.

They are called cash machines - there are two in Stalham (excluding those at Tesco). You can withdraw cash and get your running balance. Or are you saying you only withdraw cash by going into a branch and drawing money out over the counter?

Starting to ran in Potter now. Only light stuff at the moment but the clouds are growing darker!

Speed triple, Conspiracy Theory is (in my books) the belief that there is always someone out to get you. You do rather seem to see it that way. You have a problem with technology and related security- that is fine. You are entitled to have your own problems/fears and I respect them. I just do not share them, but I do take sensible precautions. The finance industry does not share them either, not to the point where it sees electronic banking as a real issue (well they have been moving cash electronically for years). Is`nt it strange how in the modern age, with all the up to date state of the art security systems etc etc, internet based crime is getting bigger and bigger? No not strange at all. I would expect crime to focus on where the activity and value is; I would expect the criminal focus to move with the times. Anyway, it is not for me to convince you. This is a world of choice (up to a point anyway). The time will come when there is no option to internet banking and all you can do then is keep your money under the mattress. That is if the finance industry has not done away with cash by then

You are entitled to your opinion. The conspiracy theory rules ok for some I know. But you won't stop progress - remember what happened to the dinosaurs. Bet you have written a cheque out and sent it through the post/handed it to a third party though!

Agreed 100% Captain. I think though that with the rate of building going on around here the real world is about to intrude big time :-( But that is well off topic.

MS DOS, Iain? Bimey I read about that somewhere I think we all wish the banks were open. It is just that I understand (or think I understand) why they are not. The alternative would imho give rise to a very, very expensive product. Honest guv