RealWindmill

Thanks JM, good info there. Still curious as to how one ended up at Somerleyton as well. No mention of a local connection in your piece. It really is a fine and detailed model, quite small , maybe oo scale or slightly larger, and like Vanessan am surprised it has survived in that position without wx damage or, heaven forbid , vandalism for at least 3 months now.

Yes Grendel, understand the RYA advice and of course that applies to just about every situation and should be followed 99% of the time. The RYA cannot regulate for every eventuality. my illustration was of a life saving situation which hopefully occurs very infrequently. Apologies if it comes across as dangerous advice or as a bit too graphic for one commentator. it's purpose was to show the benefits of training and how the mind and reactions of a trained helm could really save a persons life.

And me thinking I was illustrating the benefits of training of helmsmen. Sigh.

Does anyone know anything of this model of the Mayflower that has been on the rail at Somerleyton Moorings for a few months now. ? As this is my patch of river I feel I ought to know more of its origins but know nothing, Its a pretty good wooden model and as we have been celebrating Mayflower connections with this coast recently I'm wondering if there is a local connection. Anyone know ?

Kindly explain how that can be so. Am i not allowed an input on discussions of boat handling.

A very sensible observation and highlights a "Golden Rule" for boat handling when a person is in the water. Good for 99% of all eventualities. Take a hyperthetical situation not unlike recent incidents but is no way related or pre-empts those cases. A victim has entered the water from a boat, a typical new type slab sided flat bottomed large hire cruiser. The victim is under the hull and the boat is pinned solid to the quayside by tide/current. The victim has about 2 minutes air in their lungs. There is no room anywhere to break surface. A helm has these 2 minutes to make rapid life saving decisions. He must attempt to move the boat or the victim dies, becomes a casualty. If the helm is trained and experienced he can kick the prop being mindful of the proximity of the victim and of wind/currents direction and use them to the best of his ability to move the boat away. He may , if he's really quick, use the quayside to make a warp manoeuver to create a hole between boat and quay to allow the victim to grab a lungful of air . Either way he HAS to spin the prop and pray his victim has not slid under the keel to nearer the prop. He has given his victim a fighting chance of survival, which they otherwise did not have. If that helm was untrained or a novice - then no chance.

Quote from rsf Experience is something you gain not something you can be taught.. Exactly right , but teaching quickens the experience learning curve considerably. Also in many cases i think you can use the words 'experienced' and 'trained' interchangeably. I don't think the oil companies have got it wrong given their excellent Safety to Personnel records of recent decades since their old cowboy image days. They will tell you training and HSE works.

Interesting point. One of the tickets I took years ago licensed me to helm with up to 30 passengers onboard. Nowadays on my private boat I am allowed to carry many more ( if it was big enough and if i had that many friends to take ). Crazy or what.

Certainly, let me attempt a double quote here. My original quote was from rsf Please read quotes concurrently. Make sense now I hope.

Name caling , yet again. Second thoughts , yes Lock it down.

Blast. Sent by mistake while typing. the qoute was from RSF to continue large boat then it is the duty of the helm to get away. In strong winds maybe not easy. But the experienced helm will have a better chance than a novice. Training. Think on.

Thank goodness. A reasoned comment again and worthy of discussion . Perhaps there's life in this old and interesting thread yet. In the oil business where there is at times high risk operations going on. One training mantra is there is no such thing as an accident. All events have a cause and the secret of safe operations is to eliminate as much as humanly possible that cause, normally by training . Their safety record speaks volumes for itself after the industry matured from its original bad image days. So to the Broads and recent tragedies. Not pre-empting inquirees nor speculating on any event here but just making a very basic comment on boathandling. If a person finds themselves trapped under the hull of a l

See what I mean. Lock it

Time to lock this thread I think. As MrMax said , their are too many Egos on here. When the rudeness and insults flow yow realise that people have run out of ideas and the subject matter is lost.

Quote ; Freedom Holidays Post. And what exactly is my opinion Andy, even I don't know what that is. ? What I do know is the OP quoted an incident and that kicked off this whole interesting and rambling thread about Safety on the Broads in general and how incidents may be reduced. And that thread appears to have stirred up some deep rooted feelings and, dare I say it , anger in some quarters. For my part I am an outsider to any financial interest in the Broads but am an interested local boat owner who looked at options of how greater safety might be implemented. Yes I spoke without inside knowledge of hire business but I spoke with a lot of knowledge of how ships, training and procedures are run on a worldwide basis, and so attempted to explore avenues that might be acceptable on Broads waters. Well, those avenues, one of which being my Broads Trainer Pilot idea has met with a lot of opposition so that has turned out to be a blind alley to explore. And that quite possibly sums up the whole ethos of the Hire business on the Broads. You are all probably very nice chaps, you may be born and bred and have a deep love and knowledge of the Broads and can tell entertaining and interesting tales of days gone by which we all enjoy hearing BUT you are also businesses and the purpose of any business is to make money and to make a living. How can that simple fact be called " demonizing" the hire industry as you previously said I said. Your yards have also advanced safety no end and provide good service in giving the customer the holiday they desire BUT, yes, another but, the Broads is not in a timewarp. It is evolving slowly in its own Norfolk way and some of that evolution comes from yourselves in producing greater numbers of higher sided and large boats. this is causing concern for BA Commitee members as voiced by James Knight. Quote below provided from a post by Meantime about a recent BA Committee meeting One of the members James Knight at yesterday's Broads Authority meeting made mention of the fact that despite popular belief hire boats hadn't really got that much larger as in longer, there have always been long hire boats around, but that they had got taller leading to the impression of much larger boats. I did think at the time he was making that distinction, that is the part a lot of hirers will struggle with in high winds, the windage on the side and trying to arrive or leave a mooring with that much windage. J Knights I believe runs a hire business so I trust his viewpoint, as I trust yours. Witness also events occurring in videos of Ludham Bridge being bandied about on here today. So please dont take on so. All views from all Broads users and lovers have equal validity and have a right to be voiced and earn equal respect, even if coming from differing knowledge standpoints. They gravy days are returning thanks to staycation and you may well have customers fighting amongst themselves to get their hands on one of your hires for many a long time yet. Lets hope so.

Thank you for coming back on and updating on the incident and on your boating history. For my part I can only humbly apologise for my assumptions about you, you are right I obviously did not fully read your post correctly and so have jumped in feet first with my assumptions. Total egg on face time. hope you do see yourself returning to the Broads yet again oneday, With Regards, Bob

have just watched the long version of this video. No speculation here, just observing that larger and higher sided boats will always be at the mercy of the wind. Are the Broads becoming more like bumper boats land and will staycation first timers increase this risk?

That's your version.

People walking over your boat at all hours close to accommodation doors or open cockpits. Be prudent for first timer to learn the ropes before subjecting their family to overcrowding i.e. hire a bigger boat. BTW do all your posts directed at me have to end in a dig or were you just born rude. keep hiding behind that keyboard.

Shock Horror.

Agree with your post pretty much in it's entirely. For no reason but for the record, I also hold most of your quoted tickets and a few more from a life on the ocean waves, but not in an Instructional role ( bully me ! ). Your discription of them highlights a specific gap in one tailored for the Broads unique waterways and the skillset they demand. So to my point re Broads specific train Skippers. To answer other posters, nobody has actually said this was a compulsory move. just one avenue to explore further to make the Broads safer in the light of this years tragedies. The BA have appealed for public feedback and input and vigilance ( Dr JP on local news bulletins for one). They are putting their own wheels in motion ref the Agenda quoted from the meeting a few days ago by MeanWhile. Like it or not the Broads is not in a timewarp but evolving slowly in it's own Norfolk way. The BA have to walk a tightrope between the conservationists, large land owners, the hire business, private boatowners and marinas, safety agencies, et al whilst also pursuing their own internal agendas like BNP and rebranding. Of course they can't please all of the people all the time (impossible). Who knows what legislation may come down from them on high going forwards. ( Moot point - BTW Speleo your previous discription of how you operate Charter Skippering operations actually contravenes Maritime Law, unless you actually own the Chartered vessel. ( insert Runaway emoji )

You're possibly right about Bluesman, certainly a major factor. Perhaps i should have quouted his post in its entirity. My impression was his whole boating experince was traumatic and unplesaant for him' Perhaps the agressive and dangerous (his words) other boaters may have benifited from on-the-job training in their time. Help make the Broads safer and happier for all ? holiday with a stranger ? good point, they are asking me to double up on moorings with complete strangers.

Yes, another pet hate. Water filler hoses left dangling in the dyke water. Basic hygiene.

the bottom of the post is where the dogs pee.

I found this quote both sad and enlightening. Quote from Bluesman54 post of Saturday. on Breydon Crossing thread. Oh and to end a week of numerous closes calls and one incident of being rammed whilst moored we obviously had to finish our holiday with a bang, so whilst on the fuel dock today at Brooms one of their hire boats still on hire got out of control narrowly missing us but crashing into the key heading, with regret I’ve made the decision that I won’t be returning to the Broads again, there are too many people on them with very little if any knowledge of what they are doing and who are in some circumstances positively dangerous. I hope he wont mind me quoting him from a post he has made on open forum. So a potential returning customer lost to the fold. A hit to your profits hire yards. Quite sad that he had his vacation spoiled. Would a trainer skipper onboard have helped him in these circumstances and seen him through the difficulties he encountered ? My answer is yes. So offer him a future trip with said training skipper onboard and maybe, just maybe, he have a wholly different and happier experince and become a regular and bring income to swell the hire yards coffers. Just saying. Worth a try ?