RealWindmill

With regard to Em Services i'm deadly serious and consider them as important as Ambulances and Fire Engines are on the roads. They don't make me have a reckless or dare devil outlook.

MODS. ! Help ! They.re ganging up on me again. ! Words in response to my post like fatuous or using the SAD button to ridicule my post must be getting pretty close to violating some TOS. Can we keep it civil please, and discuss. Regarding the Broads as a tidal haven . The days of commercial cargo-carrying on the Broads such as freighters on the Yare are long gone ( excepting reed collecting lighters and eel fishermen ) so the havens now can really only considered to be below Haven Bridge or Mutford Lock. Those with larger sea-going craft have excellent marina facility opportunities at Lowestoft Haven, Yarmouth harbour side, Southwold River, Ipswich marinas etc. When people talk of suitability of boats for Broads they are invariably talking about purpose built displacement design hulls and the fleets of bathtub and modern hire boats present little problem of creating excessive wash., maybe less true of some of Brooms latest though. Sea going hulls again by their design present greater issues of wash to the riverbanks and other users, especially when at speed. So to the governing point and my, apparently, stupid question. A large truck or HGV on the road is governed for safety reasons and minimises the risks a bad driver of them may pose to other road users. So the large sea-going craft can be called the HGV's of the inland waterways as their size and wash potential can produce a similar intimidating presence to other watercraft, esp the smaller type who have come to enjoy the Broads Holiday area and as discussed are perhaps novices at it. Frightening stuff for Mum and Dad and the kids who have been sold the dream of a relaxing safe and stressfree time on the Broads. If owners won't comply to speed restrictions and behave thoughtfully to other users then , yes , govern them down whilst they keep their boat above Haven or Mutford. As speiologist righly said there is no need for any competent skipper to have loads of HP in reserve for emergency use . If you use the tides winds currents correctly then nothing can really go wrong and you can extricate yourself from just about any issue you encounter. My years of training with RYA powerboat courses and Offshore Fast Rescue Craft (FRC) taught me all of that. Plus our excellent rescue services are ever present.

It might appear a fatuous question but I see no-one seems to want or is able to reply

I am. Why not ?

We all seem to be saying the same things in different ways. The concensus seems to be that instrumentation and Speed over Ground is not the answer as it doesn't solve the wash problem and the only solution is, as rightsaidfred advocates, is the Mark 1 eyeball checking the wash. This is why i said skippers judgement isn't working as they patently aren't checking it in many cases.

And there is the rub of the question. Given all the speeding incidents being reported and the BA's request for info of speeding incidents it seems the judgement of skippers is not working.

Yes, good tip , have used it myself on occasion. One snag with it though is it's the wrong side of the bridges when northbound and as the water level is rising in the Bure whilst still ebbing have found the bridges heights too low on the gaugeboard when i've eventually decided to make my move round the yellow post . I need 7ft 8. so can be a bit of a conundrum

No, no arguements Vaughan. looks like we're singing from the same hymn sheet on this one. As an aside question. When pushing the current going northwards , do GYYS still allow boats to stop alongside for an hour so to allow that flow to lessen? ( you can tell i'm a tightwad as I resent burning all that extra diesel or having to pay an exhorbitant alongside fee for just an hour or so ! )

Vaughan, my statement that every boater knows where water skiers are is because there are designated areas and warning signs that "every boater" can read. You simply cannot legislate for the stupidity or dangerousness of the individual you came across though , and well done to you for bringing him to book. Examples like yours should be more widely publisized. As for Breydon and Tarmouth bridges totally agree , kayaking there is asking for trouble. My comments of speed there were aimed more about smaller cruisers whose crockery gets thrown around or whose driver (perhaps a novice) will really get the wind up him and have a bad time of it. As for power and tide stemming, discussed so often, Haven't we all agreed the safety advice of using slack water and working the tidal flow to advantage is paramount.

Yes Andrew , I get the drift of your question and from me it an emphatic yes to speed restriction and governing across the whole 125miles of navigable Broads waterways, including Breydon Water. There are so many small boats, kayaks and all sorts that are are endangered by speedsters that they just should not be allowed. The obvious exception is ski boats in designated areas and as every boater knows when and if they are water skiing then they present no danger. The big issue is the large sea going craft that that moor up in the Broadland rivers. If they chose to keep these unsuitable vessels inland then they should at least be prevented from opening up their engines until below Yarmouth Haven bridge or Lowestoft Mutford Lock, IMHO.

2 minutes later and me and the dog were in your last picture.

I recall back in early Covid days when the QE hospital was being built at London Excel there was talk of using some of the P&O liners in Poole Bay as Hospital ships. For some reason in high places this idea was rejected. Anyone remember why the idea was shelved?

Interesting points you make Wussername. But which raise interesting questions. The Broads have changed but are essentially timelessly the same. Are you thinking commercial interests have overcome traditional pursuits ? Interested to hear what issues specifically you feel need addressing.

I tend to ride my bike the way I sail my dinghy. i.e. power gives way to sail (pedal). What many people who don't ride regularly or have not been on a bike for many a long year fail to realise is how stable and most importantly how maneouverable the modern bicycle is. They can stop and turn on a sixpence and what from behind a windscreen looks unsafe and reckless is in fact anything but to the skillful cyclist. Having said that they and I should most definitely be following the Rules of the Road. Getting back to kayaks, then I may be wrong because based on my solitary preference for paddling then i do practise self preservation and keep out of the way. If as reported other kayakers are being a nuisance and causing issues then they should be brought to book for it. A case of a few giving the many a bad name. Paddle boarders seem to be a different breed entirely ( generalisations aside ). I have seen them hog the middle and raft up as described. Definately some education needed here and perhaps an issue that the BA should and will be addressing in their current Safety Awareness campaign.

Just had another thought on these,keifsmate. What we need is one of the Cruise Ships to beach ashore and given the amount of hooch those tubs carry around we could have our very own "Whiskey Galore" party right here on the east coast.

Agree with the sentiment here but feel thats a tad unfair on us paddlers. As JM send in his response it is good to see more small craft boaters out on the Broads . Back to the roots of Broadland spirit and Swallows and Amazons stuff and all that. All of the recent incidents have concerned larger cruisers and have been tragic but i dont believe any blame has been aimed at or concerned kayaks. We are a benign bunch and tend to stick to the margins and backwaters and avoid the busy " shipping lanes". I dont think many paddlers are seen going under the Yarmouth bridges, for example. Being close to the water gives a greater boating experience and also gives one a greater sense of vulnerability aand awareness. The bigger danger, IMHO, are the large sea going vessels with their helm sitting 12foot in the air and quite divorced from what is happening at water level. Coupled with often large wash they are a more dangerous beast than the paddler. The influx of novice hirers on large hire boats this season who are not fully in control of is also a major factor. Not their fault, just the way it has been this year.

I would imagine they are all light ship and have been scrubbed clean of cargo (inerted). But you never know ...

Late 70's eh. I was younger than I thought. Regretfully didn't witness the explosion either, but then I might have been away for work when that happened. Would it have been visible from onshore ? The video seemed to show it quite a way out

Well, some really good and informative and well thought out posts coming on here today. Learning loads. Such a shame the Like button is not working. Am going to make a bit of a tongue in cheek remark here - please don't all rush out and buy new EVs will you. I need enough power kept in the grid to keep mine charged ! ( inset laughing and get my coat emojis )

Thanks annv . Good post. Hope is restored.

Yes Grendel. I guess that pretty much sums it up from the generation side of things. Thank you for all the facts. I imagine that as you and others have said earlier the future really has to be fuelcell based technology. So when all the brownouts starts happening from all the new EV car owners out there that the Gov want then my new expensive EV will be sat on the drive unable to go anywhere. Bummer.

Nor me SwanR. But i might have offered to take it away in my pickup for them. Give it to a Norwegian friend for dinner, or maybe fed the dog for a month.

QUOTE MM. Do you know how offensive that remark is to other posters ......... Well, on the scale of offensiveness, probably about the same as with some of the comments shown to me back through this thread. But hey, I can take it. I've been around the block enough times not to get upset and throw my toys out the pram. QUOTE Vaughan. I shall not contribute any further to this OP's thread. Your call, old chap. And while I appreciate how grateful I should be of all this knowledge and experience people have deigned to provide to me, I would also like others to appreciate the time I have spent offering my first hand experience of the subjects as well. I would point out that it is not just a few who have a lot of knowledge of Broads boats and the Hire business who's opinions matter. many others have spent years of their lives in and around this environment and have a wealth of possibly greater knowledge in related fields e.g. Maritime and so have much to offer these discussions. Its not just a oneway street. I recall a on thread a while back where you were espousing your experience of the virtues of France and French living and several posters came back with what were IMHO quite bigoted and and inaccurate views of France based , it seemed, on their English prejudicies and fun-poking. "Allo Allo" syndrome I guess. You quite rightly was not too happy about that and I was incensed for you on your behalf. But I didn't post as didn't want to be involved or be seen to take sides. I'm thinking many otherwise regular forumite posters are not joining in this thread for much the same reason. So don't take it personally. What's that old saying we had in the mob : It's ' Bills' way or the wrong way. Or the other one : It's 'Bobs' opinion or no ones opinion. SANG FROID.

Years ago , maybe in in the 80's, there was an oil tanker run aground off the coast near Gt Yarmouth. I don't recall the exact dates or location but that can be easily Goggled. The ship was the Eleni V and the spill of heavy crude was quite serious and widespread on the shoreline. Any of our local forumites recall this event? There is a video on the East Anglian Film Archive site. Link http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/205071. (When attempting to post this link an error occurs - techies help please.) Watch the video right to the end for more footage of the Lowestoft beach clean up scenes Our local council at the time decided to help in the clean up operation and allowed many tonnes of this heavy crude to be buried under Lowestoft North Beach. It was bulldozed in and buried, the beach was restored, the dunes recolonised and, great , problem solved. Job done. Except that in the 2000's doubts were expressed about beach erosion occurring after some big storms. So they said, better dig up all that oil that was buried. Unfortunately, so the story goes, nobody knew exactly where it had been buried as no accurate records had been kept. So it was left in the ground. Fast forward to 2020, the beach has now eroded and dunes shifted sufficiently to allow large clumps of black mass to start appearing out of where a new beach berm has formed. The current council have had to erect warning signs for beach users. To compound the problem, when it was buried it seems some type of thick polythene sheeting or tarp was laid across to prevent seepage upwards. This sheetiing where it is now re-exposed has become brittle and can break off and be blown about as a tarry, sticky sided plastic mess. This last weekend in the lovely weather the beach has been busy with holiday makers and locals. Children are playing, fishermen are fishing, dogs walking and swimming, nudists are nuding (at the Corton end). All having to avoid the exposures of solidified oil. Nobody seems to know how much was was buried in the first place and so how much more will become exposed. There is no real point to this story other than to say it shows that oil pollution can, at best, be a blasted nuisance and, at worst, an ecological disaster. Another recent tourist attraction to this very same beach was the recent beaching of a Sowerbys Beaked whale which was left as a rotting carcase for a couple of weeks - had to avoid that spot while dog walking. I note it has now been completely removed.

So to everyone who has been following this thread over the past few days I have a confession to make, I am not actually as green as I make out. My other car is a diesel guzzling pick-up which, like MM with his Volvo, I love it to bits ! It was originally bought to provide a bit of grunt for pulling a Hardy Pilot 20 c/w large o/b on a twin axle trailer. That boat has long been sold but I couldn't bring myself to part with the pick-up. It's such a useful workhorse. It has an MOT due this week so tomorrow I'm off down to Halfords for a bottle of Wynns Diesel Emission treatment to put in a fresh tankful and then go on a 20 mile scream up the dual carraigeway in 2nd gear to blow its tubes and try to get it through the Emission tests. How green is that ? Not.