RealWindmill

Thanks for your info on customer stats, interesting stuff. As for training costs money. Well, the hire companies are quite happy to take money from the customers and use the Broads as a way to make money. Possibly not too much to ask to put a bit back in and make the Broads safer. Richardsons and Yarmouth - my suggestion had a Charter Skipper onboard. (point taken about interaction and Covid though - not easy)

If I have read this paragraph correctly Vaughan, you seem to be saying that it's just really paying lip-service to the whole Permis situation which ,I agree, is probably no good to man nor beast. Or have I misunderstood your post.

Which is why Andy I referred to large boats and their handling issues and training of first timers .They are are the ones doing real damage to other moored boats and quay headings and getting stuck on the pud. Small dayboats can still be used for relaxation and i'm sure your current excellent H/O's cover their usage perfectly well.

And I in turn am having difficulty agreeing with your point Andy. Yes there are very few incidents statistically compared to hires and, yes, the modern social media and the hype blow things out of proportion, And yes, a boat is a boat whether new or 50 years old. But the fact is there have been recent tragedies and incidents. The BA are on a mission now to make the Broads safer and are requesting feedback from the boating public about boating incidents and are doing their bit to implement safety features such as marking off of shallow area ( viz. the buoys at Surlingham Broad entrance ). So why dismiss training. In my suggestion only complete first timers would get the full-monty approach and need "skippering". What percent of your customers are complete first timers ? Many are i'm sure return customers. Charter boat skippered type holidays on yachts have been successful for many years in the Med and Caribbean. Sure might be a bit of a pain in the butt to setup in a boat hire yard but , as mentioned before, think of the job opportunities for local instructors.

Misquote JM. I never said that. Andy Freedom did.

Why, or perhaps How ? ( genuine question )

Is my name Boris ?

My point of licensing or training, call it what you will, is that small boating is fun. Just jump on and do it like " swallows and amazons" . No problem. However the large high tech behemoths that are hired out today need a different skillset and a knowledge of boat handling and water awareness is essential if they are to be driven safely. All other leisure pursuits in high tech vehicles require training and licensing. You cant just jump into a light aircraft and take to the skies or jump into the sea in scuba gear or drive your car without proving your competence to someone first and get a license. I learnt to sail on a dinghy sailing holiday in the Greek Islands when a teenager. It was a course but also still a holiday. Next time I went I was competent and licensed to be solo. In my system, first time skippers on the Broads would have the same. Their first time would be a learning holiday with a ticket at the end, then next time they would be welcome back solo. ( bit like Vaughan did for his NZ ladies - only for the whole holiday or until competence was proved. Think of the jobs for some of you local instructors ).

But is that necessarily true though? Does there have to be a direct link between hire fleet numbers and the tolls collected from private owners ? People have been messing about in boats or on anything that floats on the rivers and Broads system since they first flooded. Well before the hire boat industry came along. Now i'm very willing to stand corrected on the details of how the industry works by those who have inside in depth knowledge and experience of hire boat operations, so am talking in very general layman terms only. When there was a realisation that people wanted to come and holiday here and enjoy the Broads then many companies sprang up to cater for the demand. When i first knew Oulton Broad it was wall to wall boat builders and hire yards. Those must have been the gravy days and i suspect many a good living was made. The authority was the GYarmouth Port and Haven Commissioners who collected harbour dues for use of the system. I presume it was when the cargo side of Broadland shipping died that the GYPHC handed over to the newly formed Broads Authority and harbour dues morphed into Tolls. I'm thinking that in pre hire industry days that not so much maintenance was required to the system but that when hire boats appeared in large numbers maintenance of moorings, facilities and depths became more of an expense. When the hire industry later declined sharply due perhaps to package holidays in the sun all those yards closed leaving just a few big players and a few niche yards left. Nowadays the big players are developing large high tech boats with all modcons that the modern vacationer seems to demand and want. I suspect that now staycation is with us that demand will outstrip supply of boats and there may be an upsurge of smaller yards again to provide the service and a bigger range of boat types, sizes and, importantly, prices to the customer. So Tolls may well be adequately covered by this increase in boat numbers again and so not forcing the BA to make further hits on the private owner.

100% agree with you Andy. Take this logic a step further and think about road users. To be allowed on the roads you have to demonstrate that you have studied the Highway Code and have to be able to more or less quote it chapter and verse before being allowed a license. Perhaps its about time a similar system for boat drivers existed. ( put in a smug emoiji here as I already have all the boating tickets ).

Know what.ECIPA. I've had exactly the same feelings myself over several threads this last couple of weeks.

One thing the BA do really well is instruction and information. The excellent full page spread about crossing Breydon they give in their Broadcaster rag should be more than enough to allay anyones fears, novice or not, about making the Breydon crossing. Only problem they may have is some clown in a high power boat screaming past at speed with a big wash.

So is the moral of the story is for posters to avoid hitting the "send" immediately . How many of us have sent "knee jerk " reaction emails and then regretted it ?

Certainly has drifted well off topic. Looks like i kicked that off talking about Keynsham and Horace. Sorry !

But you have to start somewhere and all forms of transportation evolve and newer versions will have the latest safety features to minimise tragic occurances. As all point out though ... the human factor will always be there.

Funny.

No worries Simon. As has been said it dates back to the early 1960s ,perhaps even late 50's, so those of us who can remember and comment on it are well into our dotage. Radio Luxemburg was transmitted on Medium Wave ( or was it even Long Wave) radio frequencies from Luxembourg and was receivable on them new fangelled transistor radios that had just been invented. Its signal used to fade in and out something awful, especially when listened to under the bed covers when parents thought their kids were sleeping. It predated pirate pop radio stations and Radio 1 by many years and was the only way kids could hear their latest favourite pop songs. So to Keynsham, which was put on the map by a nuasious advert run by Horace Batchelor who was a football pools get rich quick merchant based in Keynsham. The punchline was " Keynsham spelt Keynsham Bristol "as can be heard in JM's clip. Thanks JM. So now you know.

Spelt K-E-Y- N-S-H-A -M. Remember that broads01, or is that a little before your time ?. Radio Luxembourg and all that.

Well , there are so many holes in this post I not sure where to start. Am actually getting quite bored with this now so perhaps won't bother . nobody seems to want to sensibly discuss the Safety aspects of the OPs question but seem to want to defend how it will affect their personal boat usage. But hey, i'll give it one more go before I get back to the football. And what happens when proceeding to sea again? De regulate the engine(s) what a palarva Modern engines can be easily and quickly governed and degoverned electronically or by software. Older engines could use a form of simple linkage stop with a seal around a clip to prevent tampering. All easily rigged and derigged in probably less time than it takes to do a pumpout. Or a blast over Breydon? Why would you want to ? there's a big sea out there. And you can't scare novice boaters out there. Or wishing to navigate against a full ebb on the lower Bure - It happens by choice now and again You may also wish to scream up the M1 at 150mph also, but that is also socially unacceptable and a bit risky. You might as well go the whole hog and regulate every road vehicle, cars, bikes, vans, mini buses the lot. We practically do that already. Not many road vehicles can go at 140mph i.e. twice the National speed limit. By comparison, Many broads sea going boats will achieve 20 or 25kts as a minimum easily. i.e four times plus the Broads limits. There is already in some instances far too much nanny state interference as there is without adding a whole new tier to it where leisure boats on the Broads are concerned Agreed, but the BA are on a mission to make the Broads safer after this recent season of quite tragic events, so Nanny interference into how boats are operated and used on the Broads will follow , like it or not. Bob.

There's that word again, safely. (my emphasis). Any vessel coming onto the system with a seagoing design hull that causes high wash when driven at speed is NOT navigating safely as he is a danger to smaller vessels and moored boats. So, educate the skipper to be aware of that danger. Or govern his vessel down to ensure compliance.

Clearly a misunderstanding here Vaughan. The BA clamp down referred to is the Speeding and excessive wash aspect. Nothing at all to do with boat construction or equipment specs.

Interesting to see the picture of the Topliner Fleetwing at Bristol Docks. Thanks for posting. She looks permanently moored and i see she has a wood burning chimney stack right above where the helm position was. So it doesn't look like it is moved about much anymore ( or they may get hot trying !) Be interesting to see inside what other mods they have made. I was at the TopCraft yard when her purchasers were viewing her and remember the conversations that they were looking for a liveaboard boat for Bristol. Fleetwing was in the yard at the time. They were discussing taking out this bulkhead and making that bit open plan, to which Paul, Topcraft Engineer and excellent fellow, replied something like, " you wouldnt want to do that , the roof will collapse ". We had a larff.

My understanding too RSF. The key phrase is as long as they meet safety requirements. Clearly they often do not else why would the BA want to clamp down on them. Nobody wants to ban anyone or any chosen vessel per se , just limit their damage capabilities.

Exactly PS, and if that awareness can't or won't be achieved then technology (i.e. governing) should be employed to enforce that awareness and so minimise the problem (i.e. you getting bounced around so much).

An expert who works the tides would understand that are NOT always be in still water as they will always work those tides to assist their boating and therefore be punching or stemming the water as the situation requires.