Vaughan

I think you will find that is the same bit that we all talking about. The Whitlingham "country park" - aka "Whitlingham Great Broad" or whatever other appellation is suitable "for marketing purposes only" is on the south bank of the river on what used to be called the Crown Point meadows before they dug it up. The Whitlingham Marshes are (or were) on the north bank, between the Commissioners Cut and Bungalow lane. Also owned by Colmans and mined for gravel before they went on to further extraction at Crown Point. The "donation" of the abandoned workings as a bird pond and a "Broad" also avoided the expense of filling in the minings and returning the land to its original condition. Hence that nice NWT bird reserve is actually a steep sided, un-protected, flooded gravel pit which is actually deeper than the river Yare which flows past beside it.

And it still raises the question as to how planning permission was obtained at the time, to desecrate an area of vulnerable wetland in the heart of the Yare Valley and then excuse it all by the charitable donation of a "new broad"? Can you imagine that being allowed now, on the Halvergate marshes?

Exactly! Part of the original gravel extraction by the same "trust" and "donated" afterwards, to make it seem like a nice piece of marshland preservation. I can assure you, that piece of Broadland water meadow was a lot more beautiful before commercial profit came along. And before two young local children drowned there, in an abandoned mine working which is still at least 14 ft deep.

If you mean the old Whitlingham marsh on the north bank near the Commissioners Cut (part of the gravel pits), that is now a heavily protected bird reserve, also "donated" at the time. Thou shalt not frighten the birds.

I have posted this before but it is still worth reading again carefully, if you think the "country park" was a charitable donation. Have a look at the two signatories to that charity! I also grew up on the Yare, right there on what used to be the Whitlingham marshes and the Crown Point meadows, before "Mr Peabody's Coal Train"* came and hauled it away. * A song by John Prine, made famous by John Denver, about a true story.

I agree, but those Crown boats (now operated by Broom) are 4.2 metres beam, which is getting on for 16ft over the fenders either side. A stern on mooring such as the front of the Maltsters quay at Ranworth, would not fit the same number of those, as a standard Broads width boat. And all of a sudden, all the mooring posts are in the wrong spacing!

Possibly, but given is hardly the word, it seems, since they have now taken back the land on the expiry of the lease agreement with the BA. In this way the commercial extraction of gravel was presented as the "donation" of a new Broad.

Actually they are very easy to handle, even in a strong wind, so long as you know how to work out all the angles, before coming in to moor! The problem is the amount of space that they would take up, on public moorings which are clearly not sufficient, on the northern Broads. And I suggest that a simple length limit on boats, is not the cure-all for that problem!

Even more so, in hindsight.

Thumbs in line with the seams of the trousers! "You stand there, like a bag of broken biscuits, and call yourself a Grenadier Guard??" Sorry, no trousers.

I think you did actually. Albeit three pages ago!

Sounds a bit like the French "Permis Bateau"!

Here's another one then, from the same brochure! There was no-one on the wheel, when that was taken!

Sorry, when I said AF42 I meant Alpha Craft, of course. The mould was made for Crown Cruisers but it looks as though Langford Jillings also did a couple for the Broads, hence the blue gelcoat in the superstructure.

Maybe I had more hair?

I think I recognise that boat! Built by Crown Cruisers on an AF 42 modified superstructure mould, to give a big sundeck and two steering positions, suitable for cruising French canals, where height was not a problem. Unlike later conversions, this boat was built to suit the configuration, and to what we called "Crown Class" standards. A very comfortable boat and I hope you are enjoying her! Scan is from the Crown Blue Line brochure of 2001. As it happens, the two people on board in the photo, are Susie and I!

I take that personally, in view of the posts I have just made.

But I have worked for the large yards, for a large number of years. And I have been in a position responsible for their training. I am sorry if your personal experience has given you a bad impression of the business.

Oh dear me. How far do we have to look back, over the decades of experience in this business? When you go on board a boat to give a trial run, the first question that you always ask is : Have you been before? Is this your first time? The answer to that, will govern your trial run from then on. If they are first timers they will be recommended to stay above Acle Bridge and enjoy a gentle holiday on the north rivers. If they find they like it, and want to come back next year, then they can venture down to the south rivers and will be advised how to do so. You can't teach everything, to first timers, on one trial run. Those forumites who think every risk must be covered and every box must be ticked, in just one initiation, to what most of us on our private cruisers, have spent years learning, should perhaps try it for themselves! And of course, there is the eternal psychological problem : you cannot teach anyone anything, if they don't want to take the time to listen to you.

I am sorry but I can't agree with that. Yards who invest hundreds of thousands in building new boats with all this kit on board to explain, are not going to risk them in the hands of some lad from the village, as you seem to infer. This industry is not a cowboy outfit. A new seasonal staff member will be taken out as an observer, on trial runs with an experienced hand, until he is considered fit. Of course safety is vital. If it weren't, we would have been driven out of business long ago. We did not come down with the last shower of rain and should not have new, official and bureaucratic regulations imposed on us because there have been a couple of accidents on the lower Bure this year, the reasons for which have not yet been made officially clear. Excuse me, but this may be a good moment for me to go out and buy the Sunday papers!

But think a minute - if you say that, you are suggesting that all the experience, training and competence gained by boatyards since before World War One, amounts to nothing? Until the BA suddenly decide we now need their training?

I have no idea what that is, or what it involves but the word dayboat suggests it may not be relevant to instructors for a weekly cruising holiday?

I certainly agree with you that it is rather ridiculous to have an instructor on a trial run, who has never done the cruise himself! This is why, traditionally, staff are always welcome to take a boat out in the off season, and have a cruise with their family. No matter how much time you spend checking and servicing on a Saturday morning, you never really "know" a boat until you have gone down the river, driven it, moored it, spent a couple of nights on it, slept on it, cooked on it and sheltered from the rain in it. But I repeat my fear : no amount of official tick lists or classroom training(of the instructor or the customer), can give you that practical experience.

I am not sure I like the sound of this. I wonder what the BA are going to teach, that the yards don't already teach their staff after more than 100 years experience in the business? It is in their own best interests to make sure their customers are properly familiarised and they are most certainly not casual about training. If this new "extra" training is just going to be a lot more bureaucratic "tick lists", then that is probably to appease litigation lawyers, rather than customers on holiday! As to tolls, I am firmly in the camp of those who pay their tolls, on time and without dispute. If my toll goes up next year, by whatever percentage, I will pay up and be glad to have the pleasure of cruising the Broads. Having done that - and as a stakeholder - I may well speak out about matters of Broads management that I don't like, but I have no right whatever to complain about my toll if I have refused to pay the damned thing in the first place!

That used to be the whole idea of the hire boat agencies, so that in theory, wherever you went, there would be a mooring for you on another yard. There aren't enough boatyards left now though. There could be a system of "mooring sharing" but that would have to be a private association of private owners, prepared to offer their own mooring to other association members when cruising. But how would you know which moorings would be free, when you got there?