LondonRascal

March 1, 2018

2 hours ago, High6 said:

I guess solo mooring is out of the question, then?

Maybe one day when things have been dealt with and changed. You see I have another toy that I have not mentioned (and need to learn how to use) which is a remote control for the boat. It allows you to be anywhere on deck and control both engines and both thrusters. It would technically mean I could get the boat to the mooring, pop outside and grab the remote and bring her alongside - and indeed hold her alongside with the thrusters.

The real issue though with Independence is not so much her overall size - it is how high above the quay/bank/pontoon she is - it really slows things down as does the current lines I have. When dry they are just about workable and clearly cost a great deal and are very strong - but when wet they become almost unmanageable as they are so heavy. It is just another one of those things on the list to reduce to an 18mm diameter for my lines.

I recon with an able crew member who knew what they are doing it would be an easy thing to do with just two people - with three it is a walk in the park but on my own? No, not unless I was simply spinning the boat around and coming back alongside my berth in the Marina where at high tide I can easily step off.

February 28, 2018

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Seemed to me you (Robin) had some learning re: mooring the boat

This was my second mooring (side on) with her so it was all a bit new and senses were very much on high alert, not to mention having just brought her into a pretty tight, shallow approach so having lots of crew about to help and Charlie to give some instruction was helpful.

February 28, 2018

Its snowing, its freezing and we are spending time indoors - so lets spend an hour and watch the second part of Independence's passage to Norfolk - here we go from Weymouth to Brighton

February 28, 2018

2 hours ago, grendel said:

I think Robin put his airdraft higher than that.

It is to the top of the radar arch - so removing the domes and radar itself would get thins under that..

I don't think that Reedham will loose it's swing bridge any time soon - there are a lot of boats on the Broads the 'other side' to consider. That is not to say it would not one day, but think of it like this you would either have a situation where Network Rail was going to replace the bridge with a non-swing version and notice was given such would be going to happen.

I would then move off to Lake Loathing prior to it being replaced and I would imagine a lot of others would want to do the same with tall boats. The various Marina's in Brundall would loose a lot of large boats one way or the other so it would have a knock on effect to their business as well.

The problem really is one day something will need to be done and it comes down to money more than anything, that said the removal of the old Victorian signally, manual crossing gates etc on the Brundall line is on going and that is not cheap but overall saves money in the future - less staff to pay for as well.

February 28, 2018

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Robin - I think if you said you were going to have a ham sandwich someone would ask why you weren’t having a cheese one!

You could be right, but you know it is not just about having a cheese sandwich at the ready - there would be many choices to be made over what type of cheese I may go for. Perhaps I therefore should ask about what cheese would be best suited? Once that was sorted, matters could move on to the bread choice...

February 28, 2018

I think there is masses of space for differing opinions, and I welcome them - what I am not so keen on is when I say I am going to do something and (perhaps I am reading into things too much here) instead of being given an alternative way to consider and think about, the original idea is too often 'taken apart' to inspect and once inspection has taken place criticised.

If I said I was going to have a whole new suite of electronic navigation aids put in and I listed what they may be and the brand I had chosen, it would be fair to hear people say that may use another brand, some might have first hand experience of things as well and pass on those experiences and a discussion could take place based on the merits of particular items or indeed and known issues about them. Now this sort of thing goes on all the time, the key I guess is how the poster may begin this.

I might say something like:

"As part of my next project onboard I am going to be getting a new Simrad Plotter"

But others may say something like:

"I am looking at getting a new Plotter as part of my upgrades to the boat. Does anyone have any recommendations on what brand I should be looking into?"

Now the reason I might arrive with a statement rather than a question is not because I am trying to be impolite, but I am using this thread as a diary, a written updating story about what I am doing - or not. You come and read and take away what you wish, you add your feelings, support, or ideas to the mix and I like that or you may not find it at all appealing and over a time no longer want to read the latest updates and that is fine as well.

But when it comes to what I am doing and the direction I am taking, sure it might be incorrect. It could be costly, it might make little sense, but at the end of the day it is my choice to take that direction and then I write about it here to share - and those of you who seem to enjoy this, don't worry I am not giving up the sharing.

Let me take the example of buying a new Plotter. What would no doubt happen if I posted that I was in the above way is not so much that people would be talking about marine electronics in general, or talk about what type of brand may be better (or they have had experience with) with but a minority thinking it barmy I was even considering such and regardless of who made the equipment it would not get used. Someone else might then begin making little 'swipes' at me for wanting to do something so completely pointless and over something I had no knowledge of whatsoever.

So from my point of view, while I might come to the discussion making a sweeping statement of doing something - and that is the way in which I might write, and while I think it is right and fair people have their right of reply and share their views I think it is not fair when such are just derogatory. An example would be "Whats the point of getting any of that". You see, that is the type of commentary I find hard to understand. I know I am taking that as an example which has not actually been said, but it reflects the tone of some comments that have been said previously. It is not as if I do something, get in a right pickle and mess come back here and share what has happened only to be told 'well if you took our advice...' because It really does not bother me if I did something and it was later found not to be the best option - I gave it a go, it failed lets go back and try that one again.

If I did not take that approach, I would just find things getting overwhelming, stressing me out and generally getting me down. I might seem like I am not giving to damns about things, when you have paid close on £5,000 for a new heater to be bought and installed and it is leaking fuel you can reach a moment of 'what the hell am I doing' but once you find out the cause of the problem, talk to someone who can fix it and know you won't have to pay anything to have it sorted out things tend to look up a lot.

February 27, 2018

What made things different (for me) was the fact that this was a new to the Broads boat, so I expected an awful lot more to cause issues and also was worried that since it was built partly in Taiwan, a larger degree of the hoses and connectors and so on would not comply with our tougher standards in the UK - but thankfully that was not the case .They were fitted either in Taiwan or when the boat came off the ship in England for final fit out with compliant parts.

I appreciate a great number of people do like to do things themselves (where able) or wholly and they get a lot of satisfaction from so doing - not to mention the money savings that go with this. However, rather than me look through the BSS regulations and try and decide what may or may not be compliant and change some items before hand (like figure out the fire extinguisher ratings) I just waited to get the 'official line' on matters, get a list of those items that need attending to and then pass that list on to Norfolk Yacht Agency to sort out.

Yes it will cost me more in the long run, but I also have a degree of 'come back' just as I have with Espar who are now paying for NYA's labour and parts to put right matters. It just is an easy and simple route to take.

A lot of the things I do and the manner in which I go about them may not be what the majority would do but that is why I am doing it the way I am. You won't see me doing things 'my way' and then telling others that is the best way, right way, preferred way etc - take the batteries - I am not going to say it is right for others, and I am not going to be there fitting them myself and filming things while someone comments at the risks I took, or shoddy job I made and then have me defend it. What you will see me do is sharing why I want something, getting it done by someone else and then sharing the results.

It is not about brownie points or wanting people to agree with a direction I may be taking it is simply doing something I want to do and sharing it with others.

February 27, 2018

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Robin question is this why did you put that you're extinguishers failed due to being not in good condition if the only problem was the fact that they did not meet the required value for a size of vessel.

The fact that you put not in good condition implies in itself that they were failed or of the incorrect type not what you are now saying that there was an insufficient amount of extinguisher's.

Because that is what the description on the emailed PDF showed and that I shared here. It was only on the hand written notice that covered the UL rating being insufficient as a reason for failure and what I needed to do to comply. I have enough of them, but one of them is not large enough causing the rating to be insufficient. I am choosing to replace all three and get a fourth for the saloon area.

The question I have to wonder to myself, is why does it matter to question why they may be a failure - does the reason matter in short?

Indeed, does the resultant explantation and following debate matter? To me, no it does not but it passes the time replying here while I catch up with Big Clive on You Tube.

February 27, 2018

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I'm glad to see that the likes of water pumps and fuel filters were of a higher priority than fire extinguisher's that were with in basically a check of if they are charged and in date , unless if course you have suffered catastrophic extinguisher failure in the last few weeks .

Hmm I feel a bit confused again, as it seems I explain something generally to the Forum reading this thread - almsot as if in passing - only for you to then assume that something was not as high of a priority - in this case you seem to be saying that a simple visual check of the fire extinguishers onboard would have alerted me to their condition when in Plymouth. But I had already done this.

Over the years of people sharing things here (and elsewhere) it is very unusual to find someone share something and somebody else pull them up on the point they made in quite the way I seem to be pulled up on things.

In the above case the way you have worded your response implies to fellow readers that the water pump and fuel filters etc were deemed a higher priority by me than the basic safety of the boat and crew in the event of a fire. As if I had failed to check things, and it would have been so easy to have done - but I did check you see. You also seem to imply that there is the possibility that having checked them at the time, but since then I have suffered a 'catastrophic extinguisher failure' in the last few weeks.

The point I am pondering is, why imply - why word something in such a way when you could have simply asked the question.

However, let me treat it as a question: The fact is the fire extinguishers are actually all OK. They are all fully charged, show no sign of corrosion or other visual signs they may not operate when required, and are in date. I did not share that in my earlier post as I did not think it was important to have but now, as ever with things I share I have to delve a little deeper and explain a bit more.

Needing to do such is OK because I am learning to keep all the details ready at hand to answer such points as they come. In this case the reason why the fire extinguishers did not pass the examination is because they are of different sizes causing their total combined UL rating to fall short of 21A and 144B but only by only by a small amount.

Instead of replacing just one to bring the combined amount up, I am going to replace all of them and include a fourth one (not a requirement) but in the saloon area as this is one of the points with the easiest escape route, aft and out of the port side so being able to have an extinguisher to hand here I think would be a wise idea.

I did not ignore anything and already have an extra extinguisher in a cupboard which brings the total UL rating up to that which is required (so even when we left Plymouth we had enough so far as the water equivalency rating and the square footage rating went) but since the extinguisher was loose, with no holder and in a cupboard, I felt it would not comply but it was there should the need arise. It is now at home in the kitchen.

I can't show you the certificate showing the fail - because it is not with me and on the boat. I only shared here the page from the email I was sent which showed the issues I needed to address, and also because being typed and not handwritten it would be easier for all to read and understand the context of such more.

February 27, 2018

Quote

Only 2 words to say to that. And that's "survey " and " research " many times this has been mentioned on here !

Actually 3 words " knowledge " being the 3rd

Survey, Research and Knowledge. Yes, these are three words a sensible boat buyer should certainly consider heeding but that is because most people who buy boats are trying to mitigate as many problems (and costs) as they can at the point of purchase. I was not worried about that so it did not matter to me at the time and that is why I did not do that.

I have some issues - they are pretty small ones as they go, and from Monday the process of them being dealt with begins. The key in all of this so far as I am concerned was finding what they were, and getting someone to put them right - both have been accomplished.

If I had taken more time or care into what the BSS was likely to have required me to have had changed, I would not have bothered to have such items addressed prior to leaving Plymouth because they had no bearing on the boat at the time - they only would come into play in Norfolk like the fuel filter bowls for example or the sight gauges having an auto close valve on them, the boat has spent 16 odd years with what it has just fine but now it is on an inland river these things need to be changed. I was more concerned with getting things like a new water pump, heating, spare parts for the engine, new fuel filters and seals and so sorted then which were more pressing.

February 27, 2018

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I'm amazed they weren't fitted In build

The boat manual talks of them - and there is indeed one fitted, it seems like they ran out of them in the factory fitted one to the port tank and left the other two and nobody gave any thought about it until now.

Hindsight may be a wonderful thing, but I did not think to look into the BSS requirements in Plymouth and indeed have not since the boat has been in Norfolk - I might have if was going to do the works myself but since I am not and now have a list from Tim of what needs sorting it makes it much easier.

February 27, 2018

The real pain about the sight lines are one of the tanks has a self closing valve - the port tank. That would be the really easy to get at one, just my luck. In fact the centre tank is also easy to get to in order to fit one, but the damn starboard tank will be the biggest issue as it will mean removing the new heater exhaust, and air ducting runs to get access to the area :default_badday:

Previously it was hard enough but you could lean over the top of the generator so it was doable. What is frustrating is I asked for all of the lines to be changed in Plymouth as I was not happy with them (having yellowed and become harder I was worried about once splitting), but at the time I did not know about the requirements of the BSS and I guess Mount Batten Boathouse did not either (or if they had, did not alert me to them) for when they had changed these lines all for new one they could have put closing valves on them then. Ahh well, that's life.

February 27, 2018

Thanks for the kind comments above, good to meet you as well and sorry the boat was in a state of disarray when you came along.

As a general update, I have had my BSS Examination by Tim Waters. Now I know there are often threads about who best to get along and many names and numbers are shared but one that does tend to come up a lot of the time is Tim's and so I got in touch with him and on Saturday he attended. I was none too sure what would be entailed and how long such an examination may go on for, but he was very polite and explained the form and what he would need to see and so I took him around the boat and he would explain as we went if there was an issue with something and what steps may be taken to address this - often there being more than one.

Well all things considered I have come off well. I attach below a copy of the findings that I need to have sorted, and I am having Norfolk Yacht Agency's Service Centre carry these out for me.

Once the above are dealt with I can then have my certificate and get my full Broads Authority Toll and registration numbers to stick on and finally have made it to a fully fledged 'Broads Cruiser' and might go for a cruise along the Yare and back to base lol.

I can also thoroughly recommend NYA - they have been very professional and helpful and far more communicative than Mount Batten Boathouse. In Plymouth it was a case of asking for them to do some work, they agreeing to and that was that - you heard nothing back, no emails responded to or letting you know they have been on the boat etc it was a call or email with an invoice and you knew the work had been done. To be fair, they would send photos or videos to evidence it, but with NYA everything is explained and what they will do and when and tiny things like the Shaun taking his shoes off when came on the boat - I am not bothered if people do or do not but he so doing showed me he gives a damn about other peoples possessions.

I get the feeling that with NYA you are pretty much sorted - they have a lot of capabilities and work closely with other third parties and in such instances would act as a sort of 'project management' so I suspect they will be tasked in due course to sort other items out, improve and upgrade Independence further.

I have some more footage I have filmed, and sorry things have stalled in so far as videos - but I have just been super busy with the boat, home life, work life and little time to spend in front of the computer with video clips.

February 23, 2018

Wow..Just wow looking fabulous

February 23, 2018

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it would be really interesting (fun?) to get a his and hers review. Too late now I guess

I will pass this on to Shiela and see what she says..And don't think there will be no more Blogs from hire boats just yet..

February 22, 2018

I've read that CIF does wonders, others say terrible as a mild abrasive. Seems Fairy Power Spray might also be a contender - I would rather not go too extreme on vinyl - especially as they are not in that grotty a state.

February 22, 2018

Warning - I am about to ask for some advice

Does anyone have any opinions on cleaners to clean an inflatable RIB tubes with? I am considering having it 'professionally valeted' and brought back to a sparkle (especially gel coat and seating) but before I go down that route want to give it a go with some of my own elbow grease.

February 22, 2018

4 minutes ago, 40something said:

Thanks, there are so many products out there its handy to know of one that someone has actually bought and is using successfully.

Well we are not using it all - we are using the MPPT controller and remote monitor with the existing panel, but in March will fit the two new panels. I see no reason why this would not work though - we also used a local stainless steel fabricator to make two nice covers to protect and hide the wires and plastic control box on the upper side of the panel that could be knocked or walked over - an idea I saw from Barnes Brinkcraft boats, and indeed used the same company to have ours made (guess what I forgot their name now) but are local to the Broads.

I don't have any plans to use solar panels on Independence, but if you do get some panels ignore the wattage - it is all about the amps they can produce, and note that is 'best case' so will be less and small things effect their efficiency like a shadow over some of the cells, the angle in relation to the sun and so on. But if you want to keep a starter battery topped up and are on a mooring with no shore power they can be very handy.

February 22, 2018

40Somthing: Just to let you know on Broad Ambition this is our Solar Panel set up:

Two 100w semi-flexible panel's: http://amzn.eu/9xeebbW
One MPPT Solar Charge Controller: http://amzn.eu/g3RHe3C
One remote monitor: http://amzn.eu/cJTRzV8

The benefit of the semi-flexible panel so far as our needs go is that we are not constantly worried one false move will cause a broken glass panel they also look better in profile being almost flush.

February 21, 2018

44 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

here is one thing you could possibly explain to me though , that's why rip out a charger that's working fine and would do with the new battery's just to gain an inverter where a separate inverter would do the job

Honestly because I like the network-ability of Victron products and the fact this brings the building blocks of a new larger system which I could add to in time and keep one brand and network to work from.

I could easily just of added a stand alone Inverter and replaced the batteries like for like of course, but to me that does not move things forward and a lot of my future plans are about updating and upgrading.

Small things like the continuing process of changing all the small plastic double sockets with fake brass surrounds with brushed stainless full size domestic ones that are switched. A small thing, but very handy none the less.

The added bonus too is Broad Ambition gets a pretty smart and higher capacity battery charger which in turn would mean a good base to expand things from should we wish to down the line on her. In March we will be fitting two large ‘walk over’ semi-flexible Solar Panels to Broad Ambition to replace the smaller single glass panel she has currently, so things don’t stand still there either.

February 21, 2018

This is the link to the Charger/Inverter I am buying:

https://www.es-store.co.uk/product_details.php?product=QUO12/3000-120-230V&description=Victron-Quattro-Sine-wave-multi-plus.-12V-3000VA-inverter--with-120-amp-charger&cat_desc=Victron-Quattro&cat_id=75&show_menu=23

The manual can be likewise downloaded - this is pretty sophisticated and will work fine with GEL based batteries. I will also be getting this hooked up to the Victron GX Controller onboard I will be able to monitor real time data and also when away over the Web. I am also considering a Victron Isolation Transformer too.

All the above said, if suddenly I change track and go for a different brand or type of battery that should not be ruled out and frankly some of my decisions make little sense. I dislike Vodafone because of the colour red they use has never struck a chord with me, likewise Victron being blue and uniform kind of reminds me of Apple - they suck you in and have a solution for anything you can think of electrically but know how best to charge for them as well.

February 21, 2018

Grendal said:

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"Robin, a while back you were interested in your consumption, In the video above there is an OWL meter (wireless meter) connected to the system under load, this is what I use at home to see how much power I am using at any one time, a clip clips around the cable making the metering circuit, a wireless transmitter sends the result to the unit shown in the video that reads out your usage mine is an old one, they do more modern ones now that can be remotely monitored."

I have got an Owl Energy meter - fitted just before we left Plymouth. . At rest, the boast is consuming about 218w to 238w. A good chunk of that is going on my two battery chargers - one for the main batteries, the other for the RIB.

Then there is the entrainment services being three televisions, a Sky Box, a DVD player and other bits with LED lights that are always on that I don't really understand but that are all powered up continuously. The lack of foresight of those who installed all this means one cannot turn it off as there are no plug sockets - it is all hard wired in with un-switched sockets so the whole lot is in standby and if you turn off the supply to the boats sockets in the saloon and cabins at the AC distribution panel, you take out the engine room sockets which power the newly thermometer controlled tube heaters. So I have little choice until this is all ripped out and re-modelled - another project for the Spring and Summer.

Recardo added to the thread:

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" Hang on a minute your buying gell battery's not lithium ones , so rather an unfair comparison really , and its not just mixing battery types that's a bad idea but also capacities in the same bank of battery's ."

The very reason I am posting about batteries is because a few days back I also posted about batteries, and today I posted (more as confirmation) that I would not be going down the Lithium route but did confirm the the brand of battery and type of battery I would be getting along with the type and brand of combined Inverter Charger.

I am making the comparisons for those (and I am sure there are some who read this) who do not know the comparisons and 'real world bench tests' of the battery chemistries and how 100Ah means little if you have a need to rapidly discharge a battery at a high amperage. I gave a good example too - a boat without gas such as Independence. Now if I was to have a boat without gas which would be my preference, and this was to spend time away from shore power connections Lithium is the way I would go no question about it.

I hope It also helps people understand the 'value' of Lithium over other battery technology - faster charge times, longer life, able to withstand high discharge currents and give an idea as to why 100Ah Lithium battery cost so so much more than a compared Lead Acid battery with the same capacity.

And went on to say:

Quote

"BTW your existing battery's sound to me like they are very much past there best and although this might sound like advice its purely what I would do , and that's replace them asap as the last thing you need is an internal short as that's potentially an explosion n trust me you don't want to be anywhere near that having seen one happen"

And I agree with you, but this is the very reason an update to the thread was made to share the fact this is all going to happen as soon as possible through Norfolk Yacht Agency's Service team. The earliest they can get to me is Monday, I hope that progress can swiftly be made with these upgrades along with sorting any issues Tim comes up with after his BSS examination and NYA can surly assist me there too.

Now, generally speaking, I am not worried about how quickly I can put charge into the batteries, because in all honesty they won't get much use . When I am off shore power then the engine Alternators are going to replenish them - for longer periods when underway the generator is run to provide power for everything from the far better and brighter 240v engine room lights, to being able to boil a kettle or microwave a pie. What would be lovely is not having to run the generator, to keep a simple Laptop powered up and camera battery chargers going. An Inverter would also to act as a back up should the generator go offline - like when sea water came in around the latch of the only opening window on the boat and into a poorly placed electrical socket beneath it - since changed.

I post in a way that might seem over long winded, covering more detail than it ought or touching on subjects that are just to the peripheries of what I am personally doing simply to give some a better overall idea on why I am taking the action I am - for example in this case why I decided to change my mind and switch from my intended choice of Lithium batteries to GEL.

February 21, 2018

4 minutes ago, grendel said:

Thats a thought Robin, there must be a way of removing something to get access to remove the engines, taking off the roof, or an access hatch through from the upper helm or something.

If the engines ever needed to come out, it is a proper cut away the fibre glass flooring of the fly bridge area. Where the batteries are located is also not under a hatch area from the saloon - so whatever way you go about it it is a lot of work and these batteries wight 57Kg each. I would rather have an insured boatyard make an error and drop one than me do the same and only have myself to blame for the resulting damage I had caused.

February 21, 2018

23 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

It largely depends on the charge rate you want lead acid can stand being charged at far higher amps than gell battery's hence the reason to adjust the chargers settings before installation

That is correct, and also why it does not do well to mix and match different battery types - but I am not too worried about the charge rate, currently the Alternators only can put in 55Amps each at best, and the battery charger 80Amps when on shore power. The modest increase to 120Amps with the new charger is nothing too great of a change and it will just need a one time set up to know the capacity and type of batteries it is to connected to.

If I was to own a boat that did a lot cruising away from shore power provision, and indeed had no generator on board, then I would have opted for Lithium cells. Not only will they stand a higher charge rate than Lead Acid to you can re-charge them faster, but (and more importantly) can discharge very rapidly with a high load without the voltage fluctuating or 'giving up the ghost'. They tend to supply the current demanded until they are very low on their capacity where the voltage will decay more and will then cut off, which is the battery management system stepping in.

This sort of set up would be great if you had a boat which, like Independence (and now an increasing number of hire boats) have no gas system installed. If you had an overall capacity of say 800Ah but you were going to have an electric fan assisted oven and hob run off these, coupled with say an electric kettle and toaster, then the moment you go asking the battery back via an Inverter to run the oven, and a couple of rings on the hob then the poor old Lead Acid cells would have a fit dumping so much amperage out of them so quickly. Lithium would be far more stable.

There is a good comparison running a fan heater as a load across different battery types to give a better outline of what I am referring to:

February 21, 2018

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Robin - gender has everything to do with it! It’s the only excuse we girls have to avoid having to get involved in things we don’t want to.

You do realise, on behalf of many women you have made set a precedent, but I for one am pleased you have.

So, when I am asked to do chores, like bed making, ironing, general household cleaning and so on, I will simply refer to the fact that I am a mere man, and therefore all the technical aspects of how one irons, or gets a cover over a duvet go right over my head. After all, it's the only excuse us men have to avoid getting involved with things we don't want to :default_biggrin:

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