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LondonRascal
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Posts posted by LondonRascal
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Well it was a hot topic between myself and my Mum with a lot of ideas being brought forward for a name, some of these included:
- The Other Mistake
- Not Again
- Binge
- Slippery Beaver
- The Little Boat
- Charm
But then I suggested the name that we gave our long since departed Cat, Trixie. A bit mischievous, cute and easy to remember so I have just drawn up the artwork for the decals - I have added just a touch of '80's feel to the font and colour to lift it - as ever these things are hard to get right but I recon this should look reasonably nice.
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21 minutes ago, scaniaman said:
Just a guess, but are you thinking electric motors?
Nope, it has something to do with ventilation
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I'd look at it like this - in the week you are going to be on the boat, and if you stick to go no further south than say Acle - you will be able to visit all the northern Broads. It is just a question of how best to do it..
When you leave Stalham most people head straight down the River Ant - but you might like to to just head a short distance to Neatishead. Very pretty and you can walk to the White Horse pub, that this first day as a chilled day - not much driving, unpack things have a meal and drinks.
Next day have a longer run - head for Horning, Ferry Inn and New Inn and Swan all are pubs here - pretty village too. You can bet your boots you won't get a mooring at the staithe, but if you are going to be eating you can book one at teh New Inn, or moor at the Ferry Inn have a few drinks and wander into the village. They may charge you to moor refundable against food, but I am unsure what their policy is this year.
Back to the boat and head for Salhouse Broad - really pretty and quiet, or the short trip into Wroxham for the bustle of the village. Get the Pilot to take you under the bridge where your find plenty of moorings. What I have said sounds already like so much - but you could do more in that same day if you wanted more cruising time and less shore side time. I wont say more for now so far as ideas on routes go, but would say have a look our our own cruising charts to work out how far two places in terms of how long it takes to cruise between them - then plan from there:
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Sorry to derail this thread , but I have some questions/thoughts about the Sheerline
Is it shaft or hydraulic? I presume the engine is under the cockpit floor
Did you consider the forward drive/sliding roof version at all?
I would have thought the Lithium batteries you have looked at previously would be ideal for this boat. is this the plan?
Calorifer with a 240v element is a good idea, and something I have been thinking about doing myself
How about Mindy for a name, (Mini Indy
)
The Sheerline has a shaft driven engine, which I personally think is way too much power - this is a light weight, 24ft boat and it has a 42HP engine in it, I have also found she began her life on the Thames before being brought to the Broads and so I am leaning towards the fact (and this may be backed up by the engine size, fit out and pristine condition) that she was never in a hire fleet and was built for a private owner. I will see what I can find out in time on that score.
I spent a weekend on Blue Diamond, this was the forward steer version of the boat when Ludham Bridge Boatyard was run by Jason and they had them as weekend/picnic boats - lovely fit out (it had a 28HP Beta engine in) and there is a video from 2014 on my You Tube channel of this. However, it was very low down and I much prefer the aft cockpit version, and since the boat is going to be also used by my Mum and stepdad, they wanted an aft cockpit boat so this was ideal.
I may be getting Lithium batteries - I would be looking at 400Ah of capacity. Without going too deeply into this, with a 'normal' lead acid battery it is seen as wise move not to remove from it more than 50% of it's capacity - e.g 100Ah battery should be seen as having 50Ah of usable capacity. Now some say you can take 80% out of a battery and not do too much harm, others say as long as it is not a regular thing taking more than that out won't be too bad either but the overall point is you can't use 90% for example of capacity day in and out and not expect there to be a rapid degradation in the battery. You also cannot rapidly discharge a Lead Acid battery - e.g be drawing say 80Amps or more and expect it to keep up and maintain 12v and give you all those Amps - the voltage will soon decrease, an an Inverter would cut out as this happened.
A Lithium battery that is 200Ah of capacity therefore has more 'usable' capacity - almost all that 200Ah could be used and so companies like to claim that a 200Ah Lithium battery is actual equivalent to a 350Ah Lead Acid battery. This is because you can discharge a lot more out of a Lithium battery and then re-charge it again without it 'suffering' - the more times you take them right down, yes they will not last as long but with maybe 5,000 cycles of re-charge and dis-charge it is claimed again that once you fit one you can forget worrying about batteries down the line as they will last so many years. So what is not to like? Well cost - 200Ah Lithium battery from Alpha Batteries would set you back £1,899.00 - so you can see if you go down this route is it s costly one and you better make sure you need to use the fancy technology or else it would be a waste. I am not sure if I would need to use it on the Sheerline, after all it is a tiny boat, but that will depend on some other ideas I have and I only will know if that is feasible when I get a tape measure out and begin working things out to see if things will fit or not.
As for the boat Calorifier with an electric element, it is so useful to have - you are moored at the Marina, or say Ranworth Staithe - no need to run the engine to get hot water in the morning they don;t cost the earth and again it may be a case of 'upgrading' (if possible) the size of the tank to be able to supply more hot water, so well worth getting in my opinion.
As for the name this is a hotly debated subject and we have not found agreement with anything yet.
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There have been a number of posts that I had not seen, or when I did failed to read them and understand all of the points raised in them . However, last night I went through the thread from my first post and read everyone’s posts however I want to address this to Ricardo because of the numerous occasions you had addressed points to me and I will explain my feelings, and try to have a very open mind to your own.
Ricardo, you said to me:
QuoteRobin no matter what anyone says n no matter how much more experience that you they have you will do your own thing I accept that , onecthig you need to accept is that there are a heck of a lot of people on this forum that know exactly what works , boating to most people is not a case of try something and hope for the best n if it doesn't work rip it out n try something else , that costs serous money and more importantly time off the river , myself and countless others follow a pretty similar path in the case of refitting boats , upgrading etc , what I want to know more than anything is why you would ignore that completely out of hand. fine ignore advice that's your propagative but dispelling the knowledge of others with the relitve experience without even considering it is not just foolhardy but insulting .
Now speaking personally i will not try to help you any longer , I'm at the end of the line with that , as far as I'm concerned you can make your own mistakes where as I am wise enough to know I don't know everything and will listen to others and take onboard their suggestions. I might not follow them I might choose to follow someone else , but you can guarantee what I do about something I'm not sure of will be based on the knowledge of the person giving the advice and I won't discount anyone until iv listened to them .
This does not mean I won't help other people on here as its in my nature to do so so that will still happen.
Thank you for accepting that I have the right to do things in my own way and I do very well accept there are a number of people on this Forum, you included, that have many years of boating experience and above that also mechanical and electrical hands on experience and knowledge far greater than my own. I am also very open minded to asking for help and advice when I need to and would take on board such advice given to me.
I also appreciate that to many boat owners their boat means the world to them and a real emotional bond is forged because it represents a great deal of money, hard work and pride and provides them with the opportunity for freedom and and relaxation together with a social aspect of sharing the same with family and friends. I don't for one moment want to ride roughshod over such people and I respect what they do or (or do not) with their boats because that is their choice and business and what works for someone might not for me but that does not make me right or them wrong.
You do however keep raising the point about advice being proffered but me ignoring it, me making mistakes that could prove costly, or ignoring people and or their experience. You feel that to do such is not only foolhardy, but it is insulting to you or other people who may have tried to help. I do not ever set out to offend anyone, and I try to have a very broad outlook on the world, and people whoever they are are and however they wish to live their lives because I know I may be seen by others to be 'odd' for living my life the way or do or doing what I do and I would not want to be judged so I do not judge others. By not judging you tend to also try not to offend, and I hope you will see what I am doing here is that - sharing my side and trying to understand yours and meet in the middle.
You saying that I may have been insulting in my actions or ignoring experience and advice lead me go over each and every post to identify those where I may have done this and I am sorry but I can find no such instances.
You have yourselves commented on a number of things I have said and questioned the point of why I may be doing them - an example was about batteries.
I stated:
"... First I want to see what sort of batteries and capacity we have and how much space there may be for additional capacity and that will likely need an upgrade from the current Sterling 240v 20Amp charger in situ...."
And you said in reply to this point...:
QuoteWhy ? Iv the same unit and a much bigger battery bank 660 ah n that's in a live aboard boat , battery's are all lead acid BTW n recharge in 4 hrs without a problem I really don't see changing on less its broke is an up grade but I do see it as an utter waste of money for the sake of it , maybe time to ask questions as to what works and then draw conclusions from the response's given rather than guess , that boar probably has 2-3 domestic battery's n that's all it needs really , remember its worked perfectly well in the past on less your changing it from a holiday boat to a full time live aboard vessel then I really don't get this change everything stuff + my current boat has proved certain systems work over the last 5 yrs with no problems what so ever .
And if I may use that as a an example this is what causes both of us to perhaps get into a bit of a 'grind' over something.
You see I did not raise a point, or question or seek opinion, or advice about the batteries on the boat. I know not what they are, how many they are or how much more I could fit. I simply stated that I wanted to discover what capacity the boat has, see if space can be found to increase that capacity and upgrade the 20Amp mains charger.
Why did you not just ask as a matter of curiosity why I would like to do that? I could then have explained my reasoning, you then could have imparted to me your own experiences with batteries and charging of them and so the conversation could have flowed and though not directly proffered, or asked, by so doing I may have learnt something just from the resultant exchange of ideas.
But having asked me why you then did share your own experiences with your own boat, its battery bank and charger but I took what followed not so much as giving me advice, despite the fact you said that the boat has been doing just fine as a holiday boat all this time, and that to upgrade things from what was already there would be a total waste of money and only be for the sake of it. You also said perhaps it is time for me to stop guessing and start to ask questions as to what works.
But do you see how saying that that may cause me to react and feel?
You are telling me your view point which is fine, but you are also effectively pushing it upon me. You are 'telling me off' for not asking things and guessing and telling me that what I had planned would just be a waste of my money. Now you may feel that you are in fact being helpful to try and save me some time and money and that I should just see how things go for the time being and you gave an example of how effective your set up is to give a real world example of what can be achieved. If that was your intention then I am sorry, but the way you had written the above it did not come over as that, to me.
You also have said:
QuoteI'm sorry but I just don't get this sod it I'll buy it n if its broke I'll spend loads of cash fixing it , if for a little effort n knowledge all that is avoidable , that doesn't make sense .
Let me try and explain my logic. On Independence the engine room bilge pump began to play up. When I lifted the float switch the pump would not operate, but when I put the float switch down then low and behold the pump began to run - continuously. Jiggle the float switch and it would turn off, but it might also turn back on and work. Of all the things you want to be reliable a bilge bump is one of them.
I decided that the float switch was at fault and needed changing. I also thought the bilge pump may have been in the boat since it was built so that could be changed too. Since NYA were working on the boat, I called them to request a new bilge pump and float switch be ordered and fitted.
I was called back some time later to be told that there was no need for a new float switch, or bilge pump since the problem was a wire which had degraded and was loose causing a short circuit. They replaced the wire and re-wired the set up in a better way. It was was nice that they had been honest and only done the work that was needed.
I am using the above as an example since it shows on a small scale how I feel and do things on a larger scale. I could have shot some video of the issue with the bilge pump, and having shared such here I am sure I would have been told that the symptoms looked very much like a loose connection. With that help, I could have gone back to the engine room got down and had a look - seen the wire was indeed at fault and used the tools and spares onboard to fix the same. It would have cost me nothing.
But you see, it would have meant me going back into the engine room, getting back on my hands and knees locating the problem, removing the float switch and wiring and taking time to fix it - or I could just ask NYA to sort it - being a lazy type I opted for the easy route in a flash.
So can you now see that while we may not agree on the methods of solving an issue, I am surly free to decide the route to having that issue fixed - even if it may be so frustrating to think that a few minutes of time, some bits and bobs already on the boat could have sorted it for no cost.
In a fortnight I will be spending a long weekend on Broad Ambition, not having a nice cruise down the river but spending a lot of time on my hands and knees helping Charlie with Dek King, helping fit solar panels, fasteners, running cables - you name it. Just as I removed the headlining bought and fitted extra down lights and wire them up in the past, I am not that much of a 'plonker' with things and I am happy to roll my sleeves up and I enjoy the learning curve and pride that comes with that. I am also happy to let others do it such as NYA on Independence for nothing other than to make my life easier.
I do not judge you, I do not mean to upset you or ignore you or your experience, but I would never think of questioning your ways, choices and decisions whatever they may be and If I make mistakes and they cost me then is that not punishment enough to be 'hit in the wallet' if something goes amiss?
I am not saying to others follow my lead, I am not commenting on people looking to do things and telling them not to bother and just get a yard in to do it all for them - neither am I pushing my point of view over others - no. I am just sharing what I am doing and allowing my own character to come out and I don't think I should be seen as offensive to make statements and share all the exciting and new upgrades that I wish to have done in the little boat to make her that bit more suited to me.
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..." Why ? Iv the same unit and a much bigger battery bank 660 ah n that's in a live aboard boat , battery's are all lead acid BTW n recharge in 4 hrs without a problem I really don't see changing on less its broke is an up grade but I do see it as an utter waste of money for the sake of it..."
I decided on Independence that I would not need to upgrade the battery bank too much because of the fact she has a large generator and is on shore power. With the Sheerline there is going to be a good chance of extended periods away from the Marina, unable to find a mooring with shore power and not wanting to keep running the engine, I know I cannot have six odd batteries easily and in a boat of this size weight and its distribution will be a factor too. Despite this, I have plans for a lot of high load equipment to go in, some DC some AC it needs a good capacity of stored power to call upon should the need arise.
Quote"... Maybe time to ask questions as to what works and then draw conclusions from the response's given rather than guess , that boar probably has 2-3 domestic battery's n that's all it needs really , remember its worked perfectly well in the past..."
Why do you presume so much? I am not guessing on anything I am planning ahead. I have a clear plan that I am going to be following from the simple things like a new electric toilet to having a new Calorifier with 1Kw element in it, these are not needed but add comfort to the boats use, just as if I was to remove the batteries and change their chemistry, the overall capacity or charging system, I have my reasons that will be shared in due course but above all it is my freedom to do as wish even if it makes little sense to others.
QuoteHang on why would you put a GRP boat in a wet shed ? Surely wooden boats are better off in the wet shed , if GRP boats moor in there then that leaves less space for those that need a wet shed n there arnt that many about , common sense says don't Moor GRP in a wet shed just as common sense says do more or a wooden boat in a wet shed if possible .
It is a Wet Shed - open to all types of craft. First come, first serve GRP, Wood, Ferro-Cement, Aluminium, Steel..anything goes..If there were really that many wooden boat owners so very eager to get in to the limited spaces, I am sure they would be on the waiting list - only no, people come and people go and spaces becomes available and in come new boats - many are GRP, some are wood it is a free market and some will choose not pay the premium for the undercover mooring and there are many wooden boats out there not moored in a wet shed which is their choice not a result of being desperate to moor undercover but unable to do so for lack of space, such being selfishly taken up by GRP built boats.
Thank goodness Marina owners look at it in such a way and not bias themselves to a single construction medium as to who could or could not moor there. Talking of common sense, here is just one possible reason: Moor undercover so when it is raining and you want to load your boat up for the weekend, you can do so in the dry.
In summery...
All those things some have shaken their heads at which is going on (sometimes needlessly they may think on Independence) is going to happen on the new Sheerline too. Only way more - brace yourself. It is going to get highly annoying for some.
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I'd try and negotiate a reduction on price but it depends on how much you want the boat, how long you intend to keep it for etc.
Most boats have some Osmosis and there are various ways to deal with it, from the spend lots to have it put right professionally and hope it is a fix that lasts, let it be as it has been left all this time or do something about it yourself.
Some use a dremal to gently grind out the blisters, let them sit for as long as they can to dry then fill them in, sand smooth and paint over. This is not likely to solve the issue once and for all, but is something some people do with smaller 'infestations' to make the boat hull appear in better condition that it may really be especially when the boat may be sold on.
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8 minutes ago, chameleon said:
why not book lessons in norfolk,ccombine the 2 activities
Right - sorted. I'm getting an 'MX5' - but you can take on the river, two into one. Result
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Urm due to buying a boat this Saturday, my lesson has been canceled. Also due to working on a boat next weekend that has had to be canceled too - I think I need less boats in my life lol
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John it is one of those 'pump action' types I hope that would be suitable for your needs and it appears to be a 'large bowl' version - I will make sure that when this happens the old is not chucked out.
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A question; a small boat (compared to your other one) will not be running fridges etc., has gas for cooking so is shore power so important?, nice to have agreed but then so might the saving in mooring fee.
You are quite right it has a little fridge and very little in the way of any electrical draw - a small heater and provision for a television and I suspect will have a couple of batteries for the domestic supply but it would be much nicer to have the benefit of shore power on a mooring. From popping down in the winter with additional heat (e.g a fan heater) to tube heaters in engine bay and running a host of things when moored up at base that need mains power like the ease and speed of an electric kettle verses a hob version.
However I want to get stuck in with upgrades too.
First I want to see what sort of batteries and capacity we have and how much space there may be for additional capacity and that will likely need an upgrade from the current Sterling 240v 20Amp charger in situ. I am not sure if it has an Inverter, but if it does this will need to be upgraded and additional sockets put in with an outdoor rated one in the cockpit area. A new electric macerating toilet is on the list, all new lighting (LED) in the boat and cockpit, new carpet and perhaps upholstery too.
I guess rather handy would be figuring out a name too!
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23 minutes ago, Hylander said:
Of course Broadsedge has shore power. Just got to be able to get on one of the moorings that has it from what I recall.
Thank you, I had emailed David and await confirmation - their website made no mention of such provision hence my query.
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The world is not a very nice place all of the time - last night I gave a pound to a chap on the Tube who was homeless, and the woman next to me said "cos' you know you're a mug for doing that" and therein began telling me all about what she did not know about me. It happens.
I would hate this Forum became some kinda of 'walled garden' like AOL tried to be protecting people from the harshness of the open Internet (and real life) so if people wish to ask things, debate, comment, assume, get 'hot under the collar' it is all fine by me.
But when someone says:
QuoteSorry but if you are going to live your life in public and create a celebrity status then you will attract public comment and possibly criticism, hopefully some others will learn from the various comments posted in this and other threads and avoid costly mistakes.
I do not choose to live my life in public - I share a very tiny proportion of what I do, focused on boating and boats on videos that I create for my own pleasure and as an easy way to record the places I go, things that happen and changes that take place over the years. I am really happy with public comment (and criticism) but saying ..."Hopefully some others will learn from the various comments posted in this and other threads and avoid costly mistakes..." is just plain wrong.
By saying this it implies that I have made some kind of costly mistake, or am about to. I have not and I am not about to. Also I do not encourage people to follow my lead, and made this obvious when in my opening post here when I said "All I can say is don’t follow my lead with these purchases..." After all, each purchase is up to the buyer to decide if it is what they want and go about buying in the manner they wish to - this is my way of doing it and I just don't understand why I have to explain and debate the process time and again, fist with Independence now with this boat. I don't think the fact I made some videos should change anything the real difference seems to be my openness to the process.
What usually happens is someone will post here that they are buying a boat or they have bought a boat. Usually the details of which are not shared in their first post but as others congratulate them it is often asked "what boat did you get" and they will share what it and maybe where they will be mooring her. But because I am saying here is the boat I am buying, this is the process that came to this point and this is how the deal went down it seems to cause such a splash.
Anyway - back to the boat in question. Despite the fact I have not seen the boat I have not actually paid anything for it, and I will not pay anything until I have been onboard and giving it 'the once over' should I find something not to my likening I can walk away from the deal - it is all subject to Contract and my acceptance, an important part of the negotiations but I have secured it and all being well this Saturday will be a done deal.
Just when I thought I had sorted the mooring my Mum raised the point about it having to having to have shore power - I don't think Broads Edge offer this, but they are great value moorings and such a lovely location. Now I am considering Horning or Wroxham as possible locations - Wroxham would be nice as it is pretty central, easy to get supplies, and offers a lot of possibilities for short day trip cruises from also.
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Talking of property - structural surveys they seem to happen less and less, what though has gone 'bonkers' are these 'surveys' that you pay a fortune for and seconds later come back like an Environmental Survey, or Flood Survey, HS2, or Chancel Check you name it and they look amazing, all full of colour and charts and lots of words and based so much of historical data, previous claims and the like for an area or postcode. So much is now about money - someone is always making it, even out of risky situations because there is always those 'clauses' to get the people who tend to take the money away from any liability.
What tends to be the most important is the boring old Local Authority search that can takes weeks to get back and is usually poor photo copies of planning details in black and white and not fancy at all yet they can contain the biggest surprises.
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Ok so here is my take on doing it my way. Yes I do know what I am doing which is why I am doing it in the first place. Firstly it is very easy, involves no stress and can be achieved very swiftly - the main 'issue' is coming up agaisnt the the slow machinery (if I can call it that) of the typical buying and selling process. I actually think there is room for a sea change in the industry but that is another topic.
Lets talk Survey's for a start. Here is one for a Trader 535 I declined to buy but had nothing to do with this 2015 survey: Fair Trader Survey Report.pdf . It runs to 24 pages and means absolutely nothing - sorry if this seems flippant, but it is to my mind 'waffle' for the main details that you need to take note of are contained on only one page alone and run to three items, two of which require some sort of action, and the third speaks of the plain obvious that ongoing maintenance should continue. Now anyone else is entitled to their opinion on this and many might point to their own real world experiences where a survey may have saved them thousands of pounds and a big mistake if they had not got on. For me I will pass on them.
Now you can see such examples time and time again of Surveys and I have found a super easy way to get hold of them, just send a few emails to Brokers asking about boats and ask if there is a previous survey available, and like this particular one more often than not one will be scanned and sent over to you to read. I have yet to find one that has been 'really bad' - for example a boat that is pretty much done for and needs masses of things doing to it so walk away type thing. Independence's Survey was far more damning that the example I attach and none of the issues it spoke of are causing me any issues - it is all the things the survey does not cover which are.
I look for the obvious warning signs in photos - I'd walk away from a boat that the owner had not cleaned and prepared ready for sale, some funny wiring of additions or 'tinkering' going on is a right no no and these are often easy to spot. Messy engine bays, and oily water in bilges and fluff and years of crud on engines and around them forget it, stained wood or lining carpets around windows - nope I would not bother. I also would not be going for anything with a BMC or Perkins (sorry lovers of these but they are not as smooth and quiet as modern units) the list so it is pretty cut throat and that pushes lots of lower priced options straight out the window.
Why do I do as I do? Because I actually expect the unexpected and issues to present themselves and if and when they do I then will get on with getting them sorted so I don't see this as a bother or a worry because if there are problems found they will be sorted out.
Talking of sorting things out, I have got the insurance ready to put on risk, I have sorted the mooring out this evening too, I just don't see how boat buying needs to be such a long, drawn out, protracted, stressful affair. I jump in deep with both feet and find the process a real buzz.
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I am now but a small step away from owning another boat and as has become my way of going about these transactions they have progressed in the most unorthodox of ways.
About three weeks ago my Mum and I were talking about boats generally and over a few drinks in the Yare Pub, she suggested that what was needed as a small, practical riverboat. Something that would not cost much to run or cost too much to moor and be ready to go for her and Simon and I could use whenever I fancied too. She said I knew what I was doing so she would leave this to me.
I therefore went away and had a look – and the first thing I came up with was a 1986 Broom 9/70. With twin upgraded Yanmar engines (2005) and a host of other improvements – the owner was in his late eighties and not in the best of health so reluctantly selling. Well, as I said to my Mum – it is 32ft long will pass under Ludham bridge, sleeps 4 and when pushed will do 23Kts what is there not to like?
You can imagine the response this got. Back to the drawing board I went.
Then Clive posted that a couple of boats were still for sale from their hire fleet, and so at the weekend I popped over to Fineway and met one of the chaps there who showed me round a nice Sheerline 740 Aft Cockpit formally Broadland Saturn 3. This really was practical, small and economical boat and to my astonishment they let me take her for a test drive – alone. I pootled down to Wroxham Broad for some 'sea trials' and was actually really enjoying myself and the boat – sure it was basic and needed to have some things doing (if you wanted and you know what I am like) but if you wanted a boat that was ready to go with all you needed it was ready to go.and great value to boot.
I reported back to my Mum that I had found the ideal boat. She was keen but between Saturday and Sunday evening we found another one - also a Sheerline 740 Aft cockpit but at £29,950 a big jump up in price from the model over at Fineway in Wroxham
We had some more talks and decided that the least things that needed to be added to the boat to being her 'up to scratch' the better from an Inverter, to Nav Lights, to new curtains, appliances etc. We wanted something already in pristine order that we could keep that way and only improve upon and not have journey over time to reach this level. It was decided therefore to go with the dearer model.
I have spent time emailing the Broker with offers and counter offers this morning until we reached an agreement between both sides. So, now I am but a small step from becoming the owner of another boat and I am pretty happy! I did mention that this has been done in an unorthodox manner though. All I can say is don’t follow my lead with these purchases – you will note that I have accepted the price and will hopefully be popping over to sign the Contract this weekend and pay the balance which just so happens to be the first time I will have set eyes on the boat in the flesh, and yes there is no survey being done on this boat either.
I am hopeful the rest of the process will prove as smooth as the initial phase. I guess if you are selling I am your man – quick and to the point. Time for another series of posts and videos then...Can we all take it? I am now looking at northern river based moorings too and have made contact with David at Broads Edge. Oh and here are the details of this smart little cruiser: Broker Details
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I am pro-dehumidifier Neil, just not for the engine room. To be honest the interior of the boat has been ok - I have tube heaters for each cabin which has kept the ambient temperature up just enough and appears to have kept the damp at bay too. I have some of those 'damp traps' and so far the crystals in them are still bone dry and have been on the boat for weeks now.
I then have the heated towel rails to keep the heads warm when needed. The issue actually is when people come onboard - then things do get damp with condensation so you need to crack open port lights, the key is remembering to close them before you go out to sea
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20 minutes ago, FairTmiddlin said:
No dry them out, get some silicone grease and smear onto the contacts. Put them back together should be ok.
This is one thing I can ask Shiela's help for "Darling can I borrow your hair dryer I need to drive the moisture out of the electrics on the boat"
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Just had an email back from NYA "We have had great fun (not) dealing with these units before" - well, I should take some comfort that they have been there and got the t-shirt.
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Tradar Motor Yachts at build offered a host of engines and control methods - some preferred the old school separate throttle and gear controls, others went for a single lever control we are more familiar with in the UK - but many went for 'fly by wire' systems. Most Traders you see for sale of 2000+ year build have Kobelt controls which look like this:
They are said to be very reliable, but they still operate on the same principle as the ZF system I have. I believe Independence was fitted with one of these Kobelt systems originally.
With more modern engines and their electronic management systems, having 'digital helm controls' is so easy because you are simply taking control from one processor at the engine to a remote station. On my Yanmar's they are a mechanically governed - this means they will smoke more, drink a little more fuel, might not be as smooth as a like for like brand new 500HP Volvo Penta.
Therefore to have the current system removed and items put back is thousands of pounds, and it might work - until the next issue. So as I say I am thinking seriously that NYA should try the obvious if that does not solve it take it all out and go back to basics.
As to the condensation issues, I won't get a dehumidifier - my electric bills are already very high for the boat running the battery charger for the RIB and Domestics I have just left the air intake baffles open on each side to encourage a thru put of air now.
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14 minutes ago, JohnK said:
I assume at some point the electronics become mechanical. A linkage on the injector pump? Are you certain that’s moving freely?
Yes it is freely able to move - take off the cable and move the engine throttle and she will rev instantly and very responsively.
I have emailed NYA a copy of the manual, link to ZF and given them some hints to where to look as per advice here - I have also said if this does not sort things can we have a talk about how complected and costly it may be to run traditional cables to the helm stations and go back to old school methods. I am sure NYA will learn to love me, as their winter workload decreases they can spend the spring sending me invoices instead lol
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Robin, maybe disconnect all plug connectors, then paper roll, hairdryer, wd40 and see if this improves matters? Do the same with the control boxes in t engine room too?
I think this sums it up perfectly.
That is not a hard thing to do is it? But think about this a moment - I have 23 odd Tones of boat propelled by a thousand horsepower and in order to have confidence and control of the boat and her maneuverability, after a damp spell of weather I have to consider disconnecting plugs, using WD40 and drying out sockets - and perhaps getting a meter and measuring voltages. They call this progress?
It is like keeping a hammer in the car ready to give the starter motor a whack on an old Ford on a cold morning.
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1 hour ago, BroomSedan said:
While the ZF Controller topic is still running, just for me to understand it better, how when it has been returned to neutral and tick over is it stopping the engine or stalling in some way as Robin mentioned
I wish I knew. As you slowly move the throttle lever back towards neutral the engine revs are not slowly declining but suddenly jumping down some 1,500RPM to 800 RPM in a single jump. You then move the lever to increase rev slowly, and then nothing happens suddenly it jumps back up though this time to 1,800 RPM. Then you try again to reduce and it does respond a little better just a couple of hundred RPM so you try and slowly bring it back down to neutral and the revs just fall - as if you have rapidly thrown the throttle to the closed position.
I think before the engine had reached operating temperature what was happening is the unit it rapidly moving the engine throttle up and down (which you would never do yourself or want to) and the result was the engine stopped and I was no about to re-start, there was no need since we only run it up to show friends how it sounded.
About two weeks back I was on the boat and and ran both engines up for maybe 30 minutes until they were at operating temp. This was in order to burn fuel faster and reduce levels in my centre tank - so I also had the Generator running under load and heater all from the same tank.
Now when I did this, I had no issues with the commander - and that is what makes this entire problem such a big and frustrating one. You cannot have a boat where only sometimes have you got full control over your engines and then leave it a couple of weeks and now you do not.
I have been living with not being able to use the flybridge station and had found I could get a replacement for about $800.00 from a company over in America. However now I seem to have issue with the lower helm station too. The only thing that changed is that terrible cold spell and what also happened was a lot of condensation forming inside my engine room from the super cold metal and not so cold air - breaker boxers, fuse panels and looms that all are part of the ZF system had moisture on them but all this is meant to be in a boat, and up to the harsh marine environment and is said to be sealed. I can appreciate keeping it from being submerged or in contact with high temperature or salt water but if some cold and damp has caused more issues then whatever next!
I have been pricing up component parts of a cable system with Morse controls so I am leaning toward taking that step. I know most Traders of this vintage have fly by wire systems, usually made by Kobelt. Independence never had (so far as I can tell) a traditional cable system but I know the ZF system was fitted to replace something else. Perhaps that was Kobelt system. Why did the chap previously remove what was there and spend so many thousands on the ZF system - I suspect because the first system packed up so opted for a replacement. He also specced the remote controller to operate the engines and thrusters only adding to the systems complexities and cost. Here is a link to the company who put it in, and so proud of it they were they featured it on their website. http://www.allboatservices.co.uk/abstrader.html#content
Despite things sounding awfully technical the actual system is not that fancy - it is slow baud serial connections with very few parameters to be communicated between head and controller, but boy look at the setting up and options you have on the controller boxes - they go on for pages. Take setting up the delay from full ahead to full astern to mean if you ever attempted such, the system would wait x seconds before it engaged astern to protect the gearboxes, but the delay and set up is all done with a stopwatch and codes inputted at the time. I like my fancy tech but this time I am more for simple mechanical I think.
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...Does your system give any fault codes...
I wish it did, but no it does not - so as far as the controllers go they are 'seeing' everything coming into them as being on the ball and reacting as they should be. In laymen terms what is causing the issues seems to be at the control head not at the control computer that then moves the actuators to in turn move the throttle cable and thus the engine throttle.
As for the manual well here it is, note just a light read lol ZF-Microcommand-user-manual.pdf
Although we have 'dialled out' the delay it still is evident, move the throttle lever and nothing will happen for maybe a third of a second. It takes some getting used to for sure, and until Howard got the manual out there was no beep to confirm you were in fact in neutral. The detent is so soft on these things and levers move so easily.
Trixie (Rascal's Fleet)
in The Broadscot Lounge
Posted
Thanks I did not want it too obvious, just a touch.
I have yes, and had been looking into using one of these:
But I now see there is not quite enough space to mount the outdoor unit on the 'lower' part of the superstructure to not interfere with overall air draft - nice idea and would work with a bit of a larger boat but alas I think this is one idea too much.