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LondonRascal
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Posts posted by LondonRascal
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By the way I have been meaning to make an upgrade to the Captain's Blog equipment for sometime, and with the forth coming passage to Norfolk being a bit of a biggy why not take the plunge now?
So the days of 'wind of the microphone' may be over (for some scenes anyway) and the camera equipment took a leap along with a motion control stabilizer. Could have bought a small use family saloon for the cost but I am itching to try it out soon.
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Although on a bigger scale on Indy, on our electronic throttle / Yanmar engine there are 2 screws for adjustment 1/ to adjust throttle response 2/ to adjust the amount of pressure you need to put on the lever . This is found on the front of the base control.
With my ZF Commanders you can program out the throttle response delay - So much is programed in for safety, for example on commission you go full ahead for x amount of time then return to idle and with a stop watch and someone in the engine room discover the amount of time taken for the prop to stop turning. This is programed into the unit so in a situation where by good reason or not you go from ahead to astern without pause, the commander will insert the pause per-programed to ensure you do not cause havoc with your gearbox from going ahead to astern without delay.
There is also a shift delay - from selecting ahead or astern - all that is fine - but what I want to get rid of is the delay (only when in gear mind you) of increasing or decreasing RPM - out of gear you can blip the throttle and it is instantaneous, in gear and you have this 1.5 second delay between lever moment and actuator arm moving the throttle on the engine.
Another thing to add is a tone when you go into natural to be an audible alert to confirm you are.
I am unsure if the resistance can be increased on the levers at the station mind you.
QuoteThere is often a rudder position indicator incorporated in the display on the auto pilot
There is indeed such however the upper helm auto-pilot LCD display is no longer working (along with most of the other repeaters and VHF radio handset) but we can cope internally as all work as should on lower helm - but the entire suite of electronics will be replaced in due course.
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And what's wrong wi going live now may I ask?
Because it will take over an hour to render before I can then get to uploading - so I tend to leave it do its thing over night and then let it upload to You Tube when I leave for work. Patience dear boy.
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Great to read your write up Charlie - you will be pleased (along with others) I have just edited the final episode and this will be live tomorrow for all to watch :)
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I type too fast and dont always double check things after..
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Once she is in Norfolk it won't be an issue anyway.
Does that mean it will never see the salty stuff again??
I am sure she will, but it won't be long passages and they will be fewer and further between. Once she is in Norfolk I can relax - more sheltered, cheaper mooring, get things done without needing to rush to a timetable and also gives me the time to concentrate on a complete about turn in life, leaving my job in London and where I live, and make a move find a place in Norwich or surrounding area.
So if you imagine that Independence is a gear, she forms part of a lot more cogs on a much larger gearbox I call life.
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6 minutes ago, DaveRolaves said:
Robin, Great thread I wish you all the best. When heading north past Aldeburgh, Sizewell and Dunwich if you keep in 50 feet plus of water you will avoid the nets and pots positioned by the local inshore fishing boats. Dave R.........
Thanks - this sort of local helpful advice is priceless!
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I know I sound possibly rude but i think all of my vast ie yrs and yrs of experience is being called into question and that's exactly why I'm refusing to comment further
I am not saying you are rude, and sorry if I have implied that. I am frustrated that I have paid for advice, had action taken and been told one thing and several other people form various places have said there is an issue.
What can I do I think to myself...
I have then posted videos of the set up, which caused debate (good) as to where the issue is, what could be and how to resolve it. I then got a very well respected boatyard to come and spend several hours going through the system which resulted in them saying there was no issue - it all works as should, but not as quickly as one may expect and this could be down to the sheer amount of fuel since the difference between the tanks being balanced of not was 3" to 4" and that if there was a greater discrepancy the weight of one would likely force more fuel into the other and balance faster.
When we were fueling - I cannot guess at the flow rate of the pump - but with the balance pipe open fuel was entering and filling up the port tank, but not as quickly as it was entering the starboard tank - it is not down to vents since this was the same behavior exhibited by the fuel polishing - and that was with both fuel caps off.
It could be down to the design of the tanks. The centre tank inlet and outlet for the balance pipe is mid-way up the side of the tank, and my layman mind tends to think that there is precious little that could be done other than to by pass the centre tank with the balance pipe and see what happens then - e.g. some flexible hose, and if they balance faster you have found the centre tank arrangement to be at fault.
Still, this really effects (or does not) this passage. I wonder what all the other boaters with twin tank set-ups do where they resolutely leave their tanks isolated - once she is in Norfolk it won't be an issue anyway.
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Ricardo I have done a lot - in fact all I can do currently, and that is a lot more than many owners would.
I have had the fuel polished and bottom of the tanks 'vacuumed' to remove any crude in them, I have been told I had an issue with the balance pipe . I then got a boatyard out to drain the centre tank, take apart the system and spend hours working on it to find that there was masses of fuel flow between the port and starboard tanks gushing in to the centre tank. There is no blockage the balance pipe is functioning as should - they also replace all the sight lines to enable us to see the fuel levels (and balancing) between tanks easier. That alone was over £400.00 in labour but I was ok with that, just to know what was what.
I am told by countless people multiple things - form finding it crazy to even touch he balance pipe and risk contamination or fuel to others saying it should be left open at all times. I have been told by other owners of large boats that they run off two tanks and rarely, if ever would they equalize their tanks - but other owners who will balance after each refill! It likes asking what Varnish to use - everyone has an opinion.
So what, really can I do?
I have a pipe that goes through three tanks that is not blocked and has a lot of flow between them all but takes a good while for the levels between the tanks (when it is open) to equalize. I am sorry, but to my mind the system works, we close it at sea and thus no unbalancing can happen (the engines are not likely to draw that much difference in fuel between them to unbalance it that much) even if one was to stop - well we have been there already - we could in such a case manage fuel delivery to the working engine through the fuel manifold to begin taking from another tank (say the one that has to be balanced up) and when in still water if there is any in balance, open the balance pipe to correct this.
I am sorry back to you for seeming to be flippant, but having spent out what I have to have it inspected and footage taken of the balance pipe working as should I see little more that I can do.
I am and have been taking all due diligence to sort this issue prior to our departure. It has been okay as it has for all these years too, the boat has been to Med and back and no previous owner felt the need to have the system changed so I am approaching the point of 'it is how it is'.
That said, I can find nobody who has been so public in Forum and video sharing and plotted their purchase and time with their boat quite in the manner as I am, so I am aware by so doing I expose myself to more examination in what I do or do not, so if you have an idea of what to do about the balance of fuel please let me know.
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Day Three:
Up early I was before 07:00 and got my things together to go off for a shower but upon leaving the boat met the owner of the Fairline moored on the next pontoon down who was fuming. You see he had come down the evening before to find we had moved alongside his boat - I noticed lights on when we came back from our meal but he had not come to comment on things then and was in no mood for negotiations with me now. Eventually I calmed him down, introduced myself as the new owner and apologised and we ended up shaking hands and agreeing the boat would be moved later.
Crew duly up and off to get breakfast, Fairline owner duly present to remind me and crew that we will be moving the boat. Dan arrives later from his digs and finds said owner now giving him the once over and eyeing up his diving gear - suffice to say we return after breakfast and move the boat over and now need to find another location to launch the Willaims RIB and see if it runs (which was why we had moved Independence over the night before) to allow us space on our port side to use the crane and launch the RIB.
In hindsight I think we had all taken our friendly 'Norfolk attitudes' down with us and had not taken onboard the reaction that some may have just at the mere fact a boat has been moved by hand alongside another - with masses of fenders - but then thinking about it, the same applies at Horning Staithe - some are happy to have someone alongside, some would never allow it alongside their boat.
Work was now going on once again all over, electrical, woodworking, cleaning you name it all rushing to try and get things sorted ready for a late morning lock through and into our trials. We decided not to fuel prior to departure or try to launch the RIB but just get out as soon as we could.
With as much gear stowed as we could we were 'stowed for sea' (well, sort of) and crew were briefed on use of life jackets, location of exits, fire extinguishers and so on and then given their instructions on what to do and where to go - this left Charlie and Myself up on the fly bridge. With lines let go we were off. Now something new and annoying popped up - when out of gear and you move the throttles they instantly move the actuators on the control box in engine room and thus the physical throttles on engines, but now in gear there is a pause between anything you do and it happening - over a second! This means you have to be hyper aware of what your input will do, and when to cease doing it - e.g. on port engine off port engine - the delay between you moving the arm and engine reacting and then returning arm to neutral and engine spinning down all add up. (I have since found the 258 page manual and ways you can program this delay out of the system)
Radio to Sutton Lock and permission to enter is granted, massive sea lock making Mutford Lock seem like a Canal lock in compassion. Independence's engine tone reverberating off the lock walls and using her bow and stern hydraulic thrusters we held station so we did not have the added effort of her over sizes, heavy wet lines to haul over the cleats on the floating pontoons int he lock. The lock gates slowly open - you don't get a light or a radio message to proceed out, it is just kinda obvious "gates be open and away you go".
Simon a local, ex-navy and friend of Charlies was on board and his local knowledge was great. Keeping us to starboard we picked up the channel and he was soon giving advice of what channel follow, when to turn and so on - straight out the lock and we were into Plymouth Sound - this is sheltered by the land but despite this the wind was gusting, and whipping up the waves to a 6 to 12 foot swell. Independence was handling this as if was nothing, a sure footed hull with no slamming - up the engine RPM her bow now going down ever deeper into the swell's troughs, but despite some confusion with the smaller waves which seemed to be coming to our starboard beam it was a safe and predictable motion and everyone was wearing a large smile. Her engines now under load and movement were performing perfectly, all within ranges so we headed through towards the shore and into ahead sea and head wind and wound the engines up more and more right up to and holding her 3,000RPM max - apart from the fact at this speed she would be drinking something like 100L per hour there was no sudden increase in her coolant temperature, oil pressures stayed stable, gearboxs were looking fine (and cool) but other areas were showing not to be working - the upper helm repeater for the fire alarm system was showing alarm (there as no fire and the low helm station was fine) the speed log was not working, the auto-helm upper helm station repeater was working but the LCD display was dead. The chart plotter though was working fine and showing our position and speed over ground with GPS and all the other gauges for the engines on the upper helm were also working.
After this we decided to head out into the rough stuff - past the breakwater things got rougher as you would expect - again a confused sea where the majority of the swell was bow on, but the wind was coming from the west so the waves were being pushed towards us that way too - this meant a rolling and pitching motion that were out of sync - up, then port, down then starboard in a sort of twist - but once again no slamming. By now we were able to get her exhausts clear of the water and bury another so you would have this growl from one as the other was muted before the roll brought the other out and vice versa - again all was going well and we pushed on.
Now sometime after this the rolling motion got far more acute and we saw how our preparation for sea was not as good as should have been (but we just did not have the time) and I stopped filming and gave Dan a hand on the sundeck and down below. I then came back up to the Sundeck and left Dan in the Saloon - we were now in 18-20 foot swells clear of the headland and with winds gusting over 35Kts. As I went to get up the ladder to the fly bridge, Charlie and Simon were about to make a turn back toward the Harbour. Simon put on masses of port wheel, Charlie then was working throttles -wooooo she went right over to starboard at a rate of list easily over 30 Degrees then a short pause, back up and over to port. You can imagine poor Dan had no idea what hit him, he went over the coffee tale backwards and ended up on his back on the settee with said table on him - toaster and kettle left the galley, bounced off the cupboards and found themselves in my aft cabin mean time that big sea was now astern of us.
In these cases you need have two people on the helm - one to keep the boat on as straight course as possible especially as you come down the face of a wave to the bottom, the other to back off throttles to arrest the speed - and once the bow raises out of the trough at the bottom to put a bunch of power on to get back up the next wave - all the time ensuring that the sea behind is being kept ahead of as to no broach the boat (which is where the boat may twist to port or starboard at the bottom of a wave, the large following wave then picks up the stern and 'spins' the boat broadside to and then likely into a capsize.
Well this was all being done and there I was holding on to the ladder unable to go up or now with the motion - once the turn was complete and the boat was back into her stride we then went for a following sea (and wind) power test - open up the throttles to max RPM and I decided to go live on my Facebook Page and not concentrate so much on the filming with my camera - note too my phone is waterproof but my Blog camera is no and was covered with salt water yet still working. Just as I am live, I get a phone call and at that moment we loose port engine power (only we had not). Charlie dives down "We've lost port gear box oil pressure" he says in passing and I end filming again.
With Charlie in the engine room he is thinking it is a fuel starvation issue - the engine hunting, RPM building only to loose them and return to idle but little did he know (or indeed anyone) at that time that what was actually happening is our fly-by-wire commander unit on the upper helm was doing things all by itself with the port engine. So while Simon and I thought all was fixed as the revs rose, Charlie is thinking "what the hell are they playing at up there". We of course were not touching anything.
It was decided after a few minutes to shut down the port engine. We then had to return - thankfully now in the less violent swell (since we were within the shelter of the headland) to harbour. Despite all that had happened, nobody panicked, people did not all rush up with ideas and shout to 'try this' or 'why not that' it was all calm and logical but the issue was how the hell would we fair getting this (new to us) boat we had such little time knowing how she may handle and with the delay as it was with the fly-by-wire- throttles back into the lock, out of it, spun round and berthed AND not go and ding the Fairline with her unhappy owner!
Charlie was on throttles and I on thrusters and we got her back, into the lock without anyone being the wiser that we had an issue. Into the Marina we went, turned her around and backed into her berth and unhappy Farline owner was now less unhappy and gave us a hand with our lines - little did he know we were doing it all on one engine, and when informed said what a good job we had done. It was odd as a couple of other boat owners also popped up and after we were alongside I had a chat with them and their ideas about what could be at fault were shared. It seemed they were a little taken aback that we had gone out, lost an engine come back and were so calm about it all.
Needless to say later that day and since we have not been able to replicate the issue. I have made calls to boatyards in the area who all have said 'cannot help much' but one they all said it unlikely to be software (its not a complex system it runs on serial connections) but the actuators not being used for a long period now being called upon at the limit of their travel and in rough seas coupled with the fact no manual was left on the boat from the previous owner and I only had the engineer telling me what to do at purchase to go on. You live and learn.
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By the way just found that Navionics (and the chart data they provide to modern Plotters) can be seen and used for free at: https://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@6&key=_c}yHz_L
Very handy stuff this, and shows the difference between modern electronic charts and paper charts.
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The next update video is almsot rendered and ready to go off to You Tube and once has been processed I will post it here - a good one this, as features the Sea Trial footage.
Having spent out about £400.00 on labour to confirm there was no issues and blockage with the balance pipe one just has to take the best guess (and there are so many) but I think it is all is about the centre fuel tank. Most boats have twin tanks few will have a third. That third centre tank is lower than the two 'saddle tanks' so filling with fuel on starboard side, with balance pipe valves open should get fuel moving over to port and equalizing rapidly - I bet it would if the centre tank was not there.
But with the set up as it is that fuel in the starboard tank has to come through the pipe, into the centre tank, out of it along more pipe and into the port tank must have some effect because it does happen but it happens slowly. The fuel polishing chap was the first to raise the point, it is also so that when in choppy sea conditions if fuel began heading over to one tank under force (e.g. a suddenly heave to port) it would not drain back and equalize as fast as it came in so you could well begin to have a fuel imbalance issue that would accelerate as more fuel came into one side and that list encouraged it to happen at a faster rate.
Now Charlie raised a good point (not shown on video) that the centre tank seems to have a larger diameter fuel supply pipe leaving it that either the port of starboard tanks - which would suggest it has the capacity of flow to serve both engines should you so wish from the centre tank. I was on You Tube looking at some long distance displacement boats from Elling which are like Traders, just I would say even better built and engineered (and cost more) but they have a fuel manifold system too to direct fuel from and too different tanks.
Some (I am sure Charlie will too) may disagree with me but for the time being I want to go down the road of "if it is not broke don't fix it" so we have three tanks we could take fuel from any of those by using the valves on the manifold but I want to take fuel from port and starboard with the balance valve closed at sea. When we fuel up - open balance valve fuel slowly will come through which will ensure fresh fuel does reach the centre tank. Yes we could run off centre only but the only benefit to that is you would be drawing fuel down from all tanks but none of this fuel is now old stock, it never had any water present in it, has now been treated with Biocide and has been polished so it is about as good as it gets.
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oh sorry, you didn,t mention you had a deck fitting, most sea boats don,t!!
Its okay. I can't mention everything and every bit of work that's been done or will be because I loose track.
I think the best thing is wait till there and have an inspection then go thru what needs to be rectified to comply.
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It has a separate pump with supply cut off, and a separate valve to isolate it too. There are so many 'sea boats' on the Broads with just this set up and since they all must have BSS certificates, I see no reason why I won't get one easily myself. So none of this is a worry.
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so................how do you empty the holding tank at Brundell?
I go to a get a pump out from say Brooms - the fitting on the deck is a standard pump out fitting.
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As mentioned on the other thread what are the toilet set ups on Indy ? Guessing they are sea toilets so what are you planning on doing when up in Brundall? Also if the draft turns out to be more than you thought is there a back up plan for an alternative mooring..
The toilets are sea toilets, but she also has a large 200 litre holding tank. You just take apart the heads storage cupboard to get to the change over valve, switch to holding tank and job is a done - though with the Marina having toilets and showers I will prefer those than the boats.
If we arrive and there is not enough water under the boat - well nope, no back up plan that would go agaisnt my character to be sensible as that, in such a case I will just have to be a continuous cruiser limited to the River Yare lol
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On Independence I got some Hydra Fuel Plus Biocide: https://www.hydra-fueladditives.com/fuel-biocide-treatment.html
I have shock treated the tanks but have another litre on order for treating when topping up.
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Like all large sea boats she has 'sea toilets' but she also has a large holding tank - a 'simple' job of taking apart the wood work under the heads sinks gains you assess to the valve to switch from sea toilet to holding tank so that is not a problem - I can also choose to pump out the holding tank from the boat, you sure don't want to accidentally catch that switch!
All the sight gauges have been replaced on the fuel tanks but I doubt there BSS compliment, just as well I got the heating installers to put in copper fuel pipes as they were going to use rubber. This added an extra £150.00 on the cost to be 'Inland Waterways Compliant'.
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We continue in making discoveries about the boat preparing her for her forthcoming passage and dealing with Charlie's humour.
The crane is alive and works but we ran out time and light to use it in anger and launch the Williams RIB - it is very clever in so far as it has stops in the arm swing to prevent it from hitting the stainless steel radar arch, it also beeps as it moves and has flashing red warning lights in the arm - just to you know, get you more noticed when using it than anything to do with Health & Safety.
The fridge Rectifier was changed by Simon and is now fully functioning, Pete sorted the last of the Port light sealing and is now sorted, and Charlie spliced some new rope on one of our large fenders. Dan got a plastic plate and created a system whereby it can be used with a weight to sit on the silt and not sink in when he measures the draft - Brian helped with more cleaning and then we 'secretly' took her mooring lines to the laundry room and with some Daz they came out looking great!
We then needed to drain the large Racor filters, remove the filter element, clean the transparent bowl and re-fill with fuel and put our new filter elements in. This mean finding a couple of 5 Litre containers to hold the fuel out of the filters - Brian and I headed off to the local ASDA Petrol Station and took advantage of their screen wash promotion - two for £4.00 and thus was a cheap way to get two 5 litre containers.
Racor filters duly cleaned, it was time to run up the two Yanmar engines to temperature - this being done after 9:00pm but was needed because of our sea trials the following day, it sure reverberated around the Marina and I actually have come to love the deep tone of the exhausts compared to the very much more muffled modern performance boats.
Catch up with all the action in update 6:
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Thanks for that - this is the sort of thing that happens all the time that is easy to miss, certainly why paper charts can rapidly become out of date electronic charts help so long as the updates to them get propagated quickly - it also where 'Crown Sourced' data like Active Captain comes in handy where people help others.
What worries me more is this - from 18th January:
"The Authority has been informed that Breydon Bridge at Great Yarmouth is currently not operational. The bridge cannot be lifted for vessels due to a traffic barrier suffering damage and breaking off during last night's high winds.
The bridge requires a new traffic barrier and it is estimated by Peel Ports that it will be at least a week before it is operational once again. An update with a more definitive time frame will be provided as soon as possible."
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I just wondered so Googled what the penalty of not having a valid BSS certificate was, and that directed me back to the relevant waterway authority - so in our case the Broads Authority. So I searched the Broads Authority website but I cannot really find much information as to what happens if you choose to let your BSS lapse.
You need to supply a BSS certificate for registration (to be issued with a Toll) but then seems for 3 more years after you do not need such to renew the Toll.
So it would appear that no BSS = no Toll so then the penalty is not so much about not having a valid BSS but switches to not having a Toll which then seems more serious? Just got me thinking, in the general scheme of things ,if you have a lot of things to do to comply with the BSS and Toll requirements, it may be cheaper to pay a fine which so far as I can see can be no more than £1,000.
With Tolls ever increasing, plus the cost of the BSS and any remedial work that may be needed to obtain one, this is getting to the point where it one day could work out cheaper to get in trouble and pay a fine than to stick within the bylaws.
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Will have to wait until onboard to check the rating plate - and now I also know be wise to check the hydraulic oil level too.
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Blimey that was quick - One of the guys at Aqua Marine just sent over the manual for the crane - for free which is nice.
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15 minutes ago, Philosophical said:
I can see they have made some room for you in Brundall already!
All they need now is the dredger to arrive lol.
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Independence - Updates | Maintenance & Care
in General Discussion
Posted
I am wondering if that is an 'auto route' within the Navronics App Peter? I like how Navronics alerts you to dangers such as this case the narrow channel and water depths in red with the warning triangle.
What the above image does not show is the outer harbour - so you come in then have to enter to your right the inner harbour and marina area. I had a look on Google Maps and the channel seems clear enough, it is a case of getting it bang on centre though!
The below would be a rough idea of my preferred course - keeping well away from wind or current pushing me to the shallows on the starboard side and providing ample time to line up for the dredged channel into the inner harbour.