[End For The Printed Agency Brochure.]

I am sorry to go against the 'tide of feeling' but yes it was always an exciting time to get the Brochure, but that was then, and now is now and I much prefer the increased photos you get from looking online and the various research one can do for example talking about a boat on this very Forum and getting first hand accounts. But it is the fact too you can do this on your terms and book when you wish - no talking to someone, waiting in a call quire or needing to remember to call when their open which may not suit your lifestyle.

As to those people who do not get online, then in the main it is down to them not embracing it years ago. The Web is not a new invention after all. Let us just presume that the average Joe was a later adopter to the Web and did not get online until 1999 with Freeserve or AOL. This is 18 years ago now, so someone  who has retired and is for example 66 years old would have been 48 back then, hardly old and probably would have had gone to great expense to have bought from the likes of Comet or Tempo, a beige box to have in the front room or hall called a computer. This no doubt would be 'for the kids school work'.

What has happened is a great number of people saw it as some kind of new fangled thing that was pointless and expensive bit of equipment. It was slow, it went wrong after a couple of years and had all these viruses and issues that made it even more slow not to mention the fact most of us was on dial-up connections. Now that is not to say there are not people now in their 80's who have missed the technology boat, because they never have used one, but equally they are not likely to be the people off on activity holidays such as boating to book such online. But it is a shame that as many older people through natural progression have smart phones, Apps like those for paying the Gas Bill or Electric are not used and people shown the benefits and simplicity these provide.

There is little excuse now to not 'do it online' and things are so much easier, especially if you actually give up using the Web but instead use Apps on a tablet or phone. If I need a hotel room I will compare prices in an area using 4 Apps and pick the best, but it is all done on my phone with a few taps - far easier actually than going to the website, and indeed using the App as a registered user unlocks genuine price advantages and discounts over the website or unregistered users. Just opt out of all the email marketing rubbish meaning you get the benefit and they don't get your inbox to fill up with 'offers'.

If anything therefore, I await the first boatyard to bring out a dedicated App for their bookings further streamlining matters and, as I have noted the data availability on the Broads has been getting better since last year, so the App could work in the field so to speak, as more than just a way to book a boat. It could be a way to video call an engineer, or allow your location to be known to seek help. It might also be a way to offer discounts and incentives to customers who 'download the App' and have a short time valid QR code to be used in certain pubs that expires after their holiday so can be more tailored to their needs and further giving them an advantage (and incentive) to have got the App to begin.

Nothing is going to slow down and change now, but that is just how the world is.

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

Thanks all

[Big Changes Ahead]

Thanks all, and John you are far from negative, indeed bring many a laughing fit to me when reading your posts.

The boat name will be changed to 'Independence' which to me is fitting and sums up a great deal. There are three phases now:

Phase 1: This will be learning the boat, her systems and finding any issues that need work. I will be having a local boatyard to where she is currently lift her out the water and do a hull inspection, check Anodes, rudders, cutlass bearings and the like. I then also want to find a yard who can update her navigation gear to SIMRAD items, this will be larger more advanced chart plotters, a larger open array Radar and new Auto Helm and associated driver units. I also need to go through the engine room with a fine tooth comb along with inspecting her 3 fuel tanks with a Borescope inspection camera. I am sure there will be a lovely layer of crud and water in them but this sort of thing is essential to do before heading out to sea in either the late part of this year or early part of next you don't want to go having clogged fuel filters in a rolling sea on a bitter cold day. In short Phase 1 will be getting her ready and some of this work is better to have done there where they have the lifts, services and are used to dealing with larger sea boats than the Broads where more commonly are used to dealing with smaller river boats.

Phase 2: This is improvements, cosmetics, new seat covers, carpeting, additional systems like batteries and and so on, the upgrade items, the making it my own etc. That can take place at my leisure. These items will only become apparent over time and use too.

Phase 3: Having her kept up to scratch, enjoying owning her and feeling proud :)

 

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

08:41 - 31st October 2017:  "I am pleased to say that your offer has been accepted..."

So there you have it, no negotiations and counter offers and I have just saved £32,500. I am rather excited today and now have to carefully go through the various documents, read the small print and sign on the dotted line and send off the readies.

Jocave asked me about Shiela and if she is all part of this, and to be honest I am not really sure. I don't think she is really either.  We talk about it, she is keen and a week later off the idea. She finds the whole idea about this boat and moreover the sheer amount of money it will be costing rather too much to get her head around so I can't really say much on that since I am not sure myself. 

I plan on doing some filming but don't expect Blogs for a good while, I am not saying I am never going to do them again, but I need to complete on this boat, get back into driving lessons, pass my test and get used to driving, leave my job, pack up the home in London,sort a completely new boat out and learn about it's systems and so on to  ready her move from the south coast up to Norfolk.

I need to then make moves with items from my home in Cambridgeshire to boat and decide what direction I then need to go in so far as future employment and after all that take a deep breath and still if I still have a girlfriend who has hung on through all this life change. But lets rewind back to where we are now and small issue of getting the money sent off and actually becoming the new owner.

[Big Changes Ahead]

3 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

That'll no doubt another item on the Traders 'To Do' list, which no doubt I will have my very own copy of

Griff

If I am successful with this, I think your clip board will be needing several new sheets of paper added to it - but fear not, your not be fretting over it unless you wish.

I have a 'two stage' program in my mind, essential items to check, replace, add to or sort prior to departure to Norfolk and ongoing improvements that can be done as and when, but as we know with B.A. the 'ongoing improvement' list does not seem to really get less, as more improvements are thought up and you know, I have a funny feeling a lot of that is down to me..

[Big Changes Ahead]

2 hours ago, springsong said:

But if you don't come on the Broads with her you wont have to change the glass bowls I believe.

Robin I am really quite envious.

Well Barry, you will be pleased to know that boarding her can be made very easy, yes even for you - with the use of the Crane she has - So even you would have no excuse for not being able to part take in some christening drinks onboard.

Seriously, I do want her on the Broads for a number of reasons but also because there is a fare amount of scope for cruising and when based in a Marina on the coast what can you do when it is too rough, wet or gloomy to fancy heading out - on the Broads you can take a cruise to the likes of Reedham and have a few drinks in the pub.

There are BSS compliant Racor filters that have a 'protection' afforded to the glass area, the reason these are are seen as a 'no no' to BSS is if the glass bowel were to crack either through direct impact or though the heat in a fire that may have begun elsewhere, it would cause an unrestricted source of fuel to feed the flames.

I know some people just opt to go for the solid metal bowls - these work and pass the BSS, but then you have no visual aid to see the crud in fuel or indeed any water that may have got into it. On Broad Ambition we have a 'Fuel Guard' primary fuel filter Fuel Guard Website which I would encoruage any 'Broads boater' to look into, they require very little servicing, has a stainless steel mesh filter that you clean with fresh diesel and just empty any contamination.water from the bowl (which is BSS compliant). I note they now do larger filters to keep up with the fuel demands (litre per hour) the Trader engines would require. This is certainly now on my list of things to look into.

I also like the idea of a fuel polishing system where fuel from the tank and on its return to the tank from the engine passes through filtration independently of the main filters/water separators for the engines. It looks something like this:

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

Hi all,

Well lets clear a few things up :) I have indeed had a good look through the Bylaws, and you know what concerns me more than beam or length is draft - I'll get on to that in a moment, but the boat I am planning on owning is 15ft beam so this means the relevant section of the Dimension Bylaws 1995 is:

(c) Vessels having a beam exceeding 4.27 metres (14ft).

River Waveney: Upstream of Beccles Town Road Bridge
River Bure: The entire waterway including Ranworth Dam and
South Walsham Fleet Dyke

Therefore I am good to cruise the Yare in its entirety (though in reality there are areas off limits due to bridges that don;t really work now or are too low to begin with such as at Thorpe) and I can cruise the Waveney too - since the boat has a 20ft air draft Beccles Yacht Station is a no no, but I could truthfully use the moorings on the upstream side of the bridge for boats unable to get under it.  

Northern Broads is a no-go but it matters not because that is why I am sticking with Broad Ambition for the river cruising 'practical' stuff.

The reason I am bothered about draft is because the draft of these boats is so variable and changes from boat to boat based upon what engines, tank capacity for fuel and water and so on was specified at build - I have seen drawing showing a 3ft 6" draft, and others speak of 5ft 4" - that seems frankly enormous - but even the Survey reports have made no mention of her actual draft.

Anyway, to clear some things up this is not going to be a  'live-a-board' because that would mean a lot of fussing and planning and goodness knows, so I will be spending a lot of time on her but I won't be living on her full time and since I own a house in Cambridgeshire this has become my 'official residence' so far as documents, Council Tax and the like all go. As to future jobs believe it or not I have not begun to look into this area yet because I am pondering a change of direction where that is concerned too,  from my point of view as long as I have the money to look after my obligations I am happy, and once you 'let go' so to speak of the ladder and rat race you sure do feel a lot more free and see life in a different way.

Clearly this is an enormous step to be taking, and much of it is being done alone and there will be a great deal of time I need to take to 'get to know' the boat if I am successful in her purchase. They way these Traders are made means their systems and engine room is laid out in rather a professional manner taking design ideas from larger passage making craft not the typical powerboat. There are a number of issues that will need looking into right away to have her BSS compliment not least her extensive fuel filtration system and glass bowl Racor filters which as installed would be a fail. At least there is no gas on the boat, which makes me happy.

Anyway time will tell.

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

Well all i can say is having had a further email from the Broker who said it is under consideration, it seems reading between the lines it might be a bit better than just 'under consideration' as I have been sent a draft contract for approval and further terms and things I need to do - such as provide evidence of identity, proof of funds and so on for anti-money laundering. I may be naive here, but it is not something we do where I work until we have both parties agreed on the price. One therefore wonders if it has been a case of Broker calling owner, owner saying 'I think I might go for this give me the weekend to decide formally' and Broker thinks this is as good as in the bag I will get the paperwork moving now.

Certainly seems a cushy job being a boat Broker for amount of work done for reward in fees.

[Big Changes Ahead]

David, Initially it will be about getting various points addressed then bring her to Norfolk - which reminds me I must chase the mooring there and pay for this because no good having a boat and no mooring!

It will then (all being well) be moored on the southern rivers where her beam and height is not so much of an issue then in time I would hope to learn and become more competent especially so far as navigation and so on, and can envisage things with 'team B.A' being an extension of that with trips locally along our coast but also be rather nice to head off in the summer to continent it really does open up a new part of life and exploring and adventures which is also why I like a slow, practical comfortable vessel than a smaller sporty fast one where the cruise is part of the adventure not just the arrival in quick time.

[Big Changes Ahead]

This may be so, but if the offer was accepted I am happy (even though then you'd be thinking to yourself had I offered less would that have been accepted).

But this is not a small cabin cruiser on a river, though this is a 55ft sea boat from 2003 and as such it clearly has a larger value (even if this is only perceived)  and from my point of view a great deal going for it, from low engine hours, to multiple upgrades and included 'toys' and just two owners my room to bargain is reduced.

Perhaps it is going to come down to perhaps the owner who has cash in the bank and does not need to sell to buy something else, but is keen to unload the boat after their period of ownership and move on - how keen they want that is the key. For all I know they will jump at the chance and think 'thank God that is sorted' and then I will be here in due time moaning about a myriad of issues I have inherited.

I am confident my offer won't be accepted though, and so anything lower would equally not have been but I felt it was a fair offer none the less without being offensive. It is up to me to then accept the counter offer made, or try and bang out a deal somewhere between what the owner seeks and I do. Talk about being on edge now though also it is exciting.

 

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

Well, today was the day - I have made a formal offer to the Broker for the boat. The amount I was offering changed up and down and left and right. I then considered that a 'polite' offer is usually 10% below the listed price, but this depends on a number of factors - for example a popular model that will sell easier is unlikely to move much on asking price, whereas a less popular brand or a boat that has been on the market a good while might.

So considering the Broker has probably told his client over time to expect at least 10% off (it has been on the market on and off for about 3 years) and you only have to see how many Traders are sat there waiting for buyers at all types of prices I have gone in 13% under asking price. I personally expect this will be soon dismissed and I am hoping for a counter offer to be made and I would suspect that there will be much pushing of the virtues of the boat compared to others and the fact it has already been reduced over time etc etc. I guess it will all come down to how keen the owner is to get it sold and move on and how long it has been since anyone had any serious interest previously.

I will keep you posted.

[So You Want To Live Afloat?]

I guess there are varying degrees to everything, and much of this is cost based yet some  is 'red tape' based. For example, here on the Broads it is a hard thing to find a Marina you can head to and openly live aboard your boat and have a number of facilities on hand - yet, on the Canal system it is a different kettle of fish where it has been and is more accepted to live on the water be it in the centre of a town, in a Marina or moving between moorings every couple of weeks.

Having followed several Blogs  that those living on boats have produced,  the general point raised by many is the 'address problem'. And this depends on a number of things, for some it is not a problem but I guess it depends on how nomadic you are.

If you want to put some roots down to an area and get a job for example,  then having an address does become a thing.  Most seem to skirt around this by using their family home or a friends address, which goes some of the way to cover things but can leave some explaining to do if you are applying for jobs in the locality of your mooring, but the address you are giving is a couple of hundred miles away some employers also seem to get cold feet when their learn you actually live on a boat going by what I have read and seen from those sharing their experiences so far as seeking jobs go. 

There is a lot of resources out there, even if it is slanted towards the narrow boater but a lot of the points cover all types of boating and living aboard them and something I may well be doing in 2018.

 

 

 

[A Week On Whisper Emblem]

The problem, so far as I can see with these Hybrid boats is in order to make them work more efficiently you would need to spend many many thousands more in their build, that you'd never make back in their hire.

For example, the 'generator' is just a 50HP engine, connected to what effectively is a large electrical generator. When the batteries fall beneath a certain point the generator is called to run - and so it does, but at a very high RPM and then you get the noise but here is the thing the boat in front doing 4MPH under old fashion engine power may only be doing 1,200RPM but new fangled Hybrid boat behind has her engine running at over 2,000RPM to generate not only the power to drive the electric motor but also any left over amperage be used to help re-charge the batteries.

What would be better is a large lower reving generator so it did not sound as loud and could produce more kilowatts to charge the batteries and if the batteries were Lithium too, they would be able to quickly gobble up those amps into their cells. But large high output generators and Lithium batteries are not cost effective in such an application, so what you end up with is a good idea falling very much short of the 'green' mark. Of course it does get a lot more efficient if most of the cruising is short trips, slow speeds and between charging posts with minimal generator run time.

As to the thrustser using with water jets, I've seen various versions of these over time but they seem to lack that initial torque and thrust, with the power building up as the jet of water pressure builds. What has been more of a revelation especially to noise are Rim Drive thrusters where the motor is brushless and contained in the rim of the thrsuter itself. Alas, very expensive kit but very clever:

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

19 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Anyway, don't let me drag you down into these details.

No, please do because then I get inspired to read up more and learn . Talking of learning, I have just had delivered today this:

Link to buy just do as I do, close your eyes and hit the add to basket button because it is a £60.00 but blimey it is about 3" thick (women's judgment may vary) of step by step instructions from everything mechanical and electrical on a boat. While I was spending small fortunes on paper I also got the below:

 Reeds Nautical Almanac which is equally hefty but essential literature on any sea boat.

[Big Changes Ahead]

Jonathan, you make some good points - so I will have a look into these, but off the top of my head my understanding is that almost all air-conditioner systems made and installed operate on a simple ‘on’ or ‘off’ approach.  I will cover newer innovations with variable speed compressors later.

When on they produce their maximum efficiency that is to say if they are rated at 16,000 BTU they will run at this regardless, and it is the thermostat that will cut the unit in or out (on or off) and cycling a unit reduces life especially the compressor start Capacitor. Doing this is less efficient so you don’t want a unit too large for the given space that will constantly have to cycle off and on, neither do you want one too small that it cannot provide sufficient cooling capacity and runs all the time.  It is a bit of an art since you have to take in to account the thermal efficiently of the area you are cooling, sunlight, time of day etc and year so your unit has the capacity to cool to a comfortable degree even on a hot mid-August day.

What this means is on a warm day, lets us say 23c the air-conditioner will work just as hard as on a hot day say 30c and consume the same amount of power. In very hot climates, outdoor condenser systems may have water spray cooling to aid air cooling, but generally air cooling the unit is good to about 38c which thankfully we do not see in the UK and so it is only in very large units in high-rises you might see these sort of set up.

In short when you look at power consumption of the marine units (with the same BTU output) and using water as cooling they are not much more efficient than a standard air cooled commercial system, but are preferred overall in the marine environment due to their compact size. Also most commercial units outdoor condenser coils are aluminum, get salt spray on this and they will fall apart - one therefore must buy one which has an epoxy coating over to prevent this for as long as possible. You can tell a unit has such because the coil will have a light green or blue hue to the metal elements.

I would get a variable speed compressor unit - this is a relatively new to market innovation that instead of just relying on a thermostat to cycle the unit on or off, actually reduces or increases the speed the compressor runs at (and thus the cooling capacity of the unit) based on load and temperature. On a warm day where it may not need full cooling capacity it would run slower and use less power, on a hot day it would ramp up and produce more cooling capacity.

The outside noise of these units is very quiet too – with the large diameter high pitched fan and sound insulated compressor motor, you are looking at a murmur at about 5 metres the main noise being the air flow over the coil. This is likely less annoying to people than running water constantly coming out the hull from the marine systems, which may also cause other marine owners to think your bilge pumps are running continuously when actually you are just running your air-conditioning.

When you mention about cool-boxes this is a not refrigeration in the same sense as a compressor driven system with a refrigerant gas, but actually uses a semi-conductor - more often known as a Peltier. It is a small heat pump, or thermoelectric cooler. It can be used either for heating or for cooling, runs on DC and to switch between cooling or heating you simply change the polarity. They are cheap, can be bought on Amazon and worth playing with - I experimented with these, but their high DC amperage and low efficiency (you need a massive heat sink on the hot side) meant my idea for air cooling a small cabin fell flat. They do have a maximum cooling point to at a given temperature but the more heat you can get away from their ‘hot side’ the colder the cool side will get enough to form ice crystals actually.

The main thrust of all this is it is very much, as ever with me 'outside the box' Sure you get some folk using small portable air-conditioners on boats, or weird home brew set ups with bags of ice and computer fans, but you do not often see the sort of set up I am talking about, and there could well be a good reason for this in so far as it is not workable.  But, I recon the main reason is lack of space and not wanting to have a outside condenser unit spoil the lines of their lovely craft (and perhaps reduce it's value) so if I was to do this, I would consider having the outdoor part covered in a GRP enclosure with louvers, so aesthetically you would not think 'office air-con' when you saw it.

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

Thanks James, I will remember this, but first I need to get the boat - small steps then the bigger ones :)

[Big Changes Ahead]

Lots of points raised and advice given (lovely) so  settle down it is a long one.

Batteries:

The plan to re-charge the batteries is no different than if they were Lead Acid, the difference is they are lighter, far more energy dense, and re-charge in a very short time compared to Lead Acid (they can also take very high amperage charge rates and not boil like Lead Acid can).

Because they can take charge faster and more efficiently, whatever means you use to re-charge is not used for as long so be it engine, shore based or generator it all is more efficient. As you might be aware, recharging lead acid batteries takes sometimes hours, because while they can accept a good amperage to begin, to avoid damage this reduces to a trickle so that last 10-15 percent is what takes the most time to put back into the cells.

As to needing this battery resource, it is about future proofing and efficiency. I know it is expensive, but Lead Acid in 2017 is very old technology, and it just gives a lot of freedom and choice – what if you only have 16Amp shore connection but need to use 23Amps of load? You can with this set up and the correct inverter and combiner system or say the shore power connection trips, in milliseconds the battery bank takes over with no loss of power and you are simply informed by an alarm that shore power has been cut then you can make a choice – run engine, run generator stay on battery.

Air-Conditioning:

I am a little unusual (no really?) in that I use such at home through the summer so over the years it has become something I have got used to and I would much prefer being inside in the cool than outside in the baking. I am the one who will go into the restaurant to eat in the cool and not on the terrace in the sun with everyone else, and why perhaps Mediterranean holidays has never appealed to me for I think of the heat and that is enough to make me dream of autumn in blighty lol.

Air-Conditioners do not make cold air, they simple move heat from one place to another, and they do this using the refrigerant between it being in a liquid state and that of a gas. When it is a gas this ‘absorbs’ heat from the room and causes the evaporator (think of something resembling a car radiator) to get cold as the gas passes through the system to the condenser coil (second radiator) it is transferred to a liquid – this sudden change releases the heat which is dispersed outside through a fan – this is the box you see outside or why your car when the air conditioner is running cooling fans will run.

On boats that have air-conditioning fitted have pretty compact units that are hidden somewhere behind a bulkhead, under a berth or even grouped together in the engine room.  Such systems have to be small because most boats are not blessed with the space to have much larger units, and the units have to cover a wide range of applications/boats.  This inherently causes issues where the compressor, electronics that control the unit and the condenser coils are all wrapped together in one tight space – vibration, heat and a salt laden moist air all conspire to mean these hard working units have a hard life.

Here is an example of a typical marine air-con unit:

Usually a refrigerant line heads off from the unit to the air handler – based in the cabin:

This is where the ‘evaporator’ is and the part that gets cold. A fan then pulls air through this and cools the cabin. These systems often can work ‘backwards’ whereby they heat – and since water usually is warmer than air temperature and how the refrigerant transfers from liquid to gas works in reverse, heat can be ‘captured’ from the surrounding water and built up to quite high levels. They do this rather efficiently, and the result is the evaporator inside the cabin rather than getting cold gets warm – it reverse cycles so to speak, it becomes the condenser and you have your heating.

Unlike shore based or vehicular based air conditioning systems which use the surrounding air drawn over the condenser coil (the part that gets hot) to remove waste heat from the refrigerant, marine based systems use water.  Water is a better more dense medium to remove heat from something, but the water that is being passed through the unit (much the same as the heat exchanger on any marine engine) is more often than not salt water. Salt water getting rather warm, increases the scaling and marine growth so the filters need to be checked and cleaned in places like the Med weekly or more, and the pipe work over time can fur and clog and narrow. You also have extra sea cocks to worry about but then come wintertime you have more to worry about freezing up as you then have to drain the raw water side of the system to stop the raw water in the system freezing up and causing costly damage.

Now I used to think that this all was worthwhile since there for boats, smaller efficient systems and would not need much power. How foolish of me, they need as much power as any other air-conditioning which is why you need a generator, or shore power to have them run and then you begin to see the cost of the systems – they are thousands of pounds.

Thing is, if you look at commercial office air conditioning systems, they are so much cheaper, far more efficient, and easier to maintain because most Engineers dealing with such are used to these systems whereas may not know the ins and outs of an Eberspacher based marine system. So my idea is to bring the cheaper, off the shelf commercial system to a boat.

This means I would need to find the space for one of these:

This is not exactly what most leisure boast owners want to have on show and often would not have the space, but while it is common practice on the canals and increasingly on the Broads with people living on boats to have sold fuel stoves and an associate flue, this unit is my equivalent.

Now, don’t get me wrong I have not got a clue if this would be workable but I have a feeling it would. My idea, is to use the existing refrigerant lines to the existing air handlers (evaporators) in the boat and have the outside condenser unit take over from the 4 units spaced about the boat currently. One unit running is more efficient than 4, and with a variable speed inverter based compressor (nothing to do with inverters we are used to on boats) it means for every 1Kw of energy you put in you get more out in energy produced (heat) since it is the process from gas to liquid which causes the temperature difference not electrical input like a fan heater element. Therefore it is why ‘air source heat pumps’ are getting traction and can attract a subsidy from the government as it is seen as very efferent (though not as good as ground source heat pumps).

Now, it may be that my idea is not workable – or that it is in part, where I would need to run new lines but it is worth looking into I say, and also these units cost far less to purchase to begin and sourcing parts too – also it is just one unit to worry about, everything else is basically small DC fans and ‘plumbing’.

[Big Changes Ahead]

I think all batteries dislike water ingress - and there is a lot more sensitive equipment that is equally unhappy with moisture. Something I recently found out is the fact that marine Inverts circuit boards are often bare, no protective coating at all, yet are placed in very damp and often salty environments so I'd be more happy to use some aerosol Conformal Coating to give things a fighting chance of not corroding.

The Lithium batteries for marine use are Lithium Iron Phosphate - when the two layers of the film touch maybe through being punctured unlike those found in phones etc, these will not react and cannot catch on fire, but there is a a trade off. They are heavier and and not as efficient but then they last longer.

[Big Changes Ahead]

Phil,

The battery system weighs 130KG. If you compare the weight of Lead Acid batteries to equal this capacity this is light in comparison.

I have in the past been all for generators, but there increasingly so far as I can see not being the 'go to' method for large electrical power needs. You could have a far smaller generator for example, that only is needed to run to re-charge the battery bank - or supplement it since the Inverter system I am looking at can combine sources of power eg. battery and shore power to give a higher overall current available when needed. 

The only reason the boat has such a large generator is to run all the air conditioning units (4 of them) at the same time and also have reserve for other items. I am keen on air-conditioning, I am not keen on marine air-conditioning because having 4 separate units each needing their own compressor and sea-cock and skin fitting and filter assembly that needs cleaning for the cooling water it just is not efficient.

One could have one central outside condenser unit, hidden in a box with louvered grills to blend in to the boats appearance, and this one unit deal with the four zones (or cabins) on the boat. Being an off the shelf commercial unit it is cheaper to buy and any HVAC engineer can deal with them unlike the marine specific systems. Of course 99.9% of boaters do not want such a box on their boat, or do not have the space to have it s this idea is very much bucking the trend,  but you will find such systems on many Tugs and all the Thames Clippers use these everyday air-conditioners commonly found in shops or businesses on their craft.

Mark,

There is one thing that is for certain, battery technology is going to get smaller, lighter and more efficient and with volume manufacturing cheaper. The thing is how long do you wait before you dive in? The systems I have been looking at are not such that a company has a standard sized battery container and within it the Lithium cells, thus looking like and acting just the same as conventional batteries, but a custom made system in a self contained enclosure that holds all the batteries - then has a on-board monitoring software that can be linked by a network to be monitored not just on the boat but online too. It is this which adds to the overall costs.

If you want a 'drop in replacement' then this sort: http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-relion-lithium-battery/ would be a good idea to begin. They have the charge protection and balancing hardware built in, and that 100Ah of capacity is equivalent to 172Ah of traditional AGM or Lead Acid. 10 year warranty and 5,000 cycles.

[Big Changes Ahead]

Just now, Philosophical said:

Sorry to ask but why not have a generator? Good ones especially those running at 1,500 rpm can be almost silent.

It has a 13.5 KW gen set already running at 1,500RPM. Now I can hear you saying it now 'do you know how much diesel you could buy for £10,000 odd and run that? Lots of litres, lots of hours worth of running too but it does cost in servicing and there is noise/vibrations and others moored about might not like the fumes

But, you know what else? I can't take the gen-set with me if I sell the boat, but I can take the Lithium batteries and put back some old Lead Acid ones so my thinking is a bit longer term.

[Big Changes Ahead]

Just now, dnks34 said:

WOW! and I get miffed at the price of a 110amp leisure battery 

The real point is your 100Ah Lead Acid battery - let us just round it up and say it cost £100.00 but for that you've got a lot of dead weight, and over an extend period can't use all that 100Ah of capacity, because when you discharge past 50% you begin to cause issues with the battery chemistry and make up - you can do it, but your batteries lifetime is reduced.

So 110Ah actually gives you a regular usable capacity of 55Ah. Now the number of times you can discharge and recharge are relatively small, when you look at the tech specs of batteries  you might get 200 cycles, with high cost good brand this might be 300 cycles. That is not to say after this they just die, but gradually they are getting weaker but most people never really notice this, until they really are very damaged and you can't get the heating to fire without the engine being run, or your lights dim after a couple of hours of use.

With Lithium you can use up to 90% of the batteries capacity, so they are very efficient in covering almost all their charge to energy to use, their re-charge rate is very much faster from 90% discharge to 90% recharge (about an hour) which means less wear on engine/alternator to put back power or less time and money on your mains powered charger before they are on float charge.

But the biggest thing is you can get 5,000 cycles minimum before there begins to be a break down of the capacity. This does not effect most boaters, but if you have a large battery bank running at 24v and have been using high end AGM batteries which cost several hundred pounds, the Lithium replacement system will in many cases last the life of the boat from my point of view the other bonus is you can put a hell of a lot of load on a Lithium cell and it is just fine with it, where as a Lead Acid battery will soon big up the ghost.

Have a look at this video where Lithium, Lead Acid and Gel batteries are compared side by side with the same load to see the difference:

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

1 hour ago, Ricardo said:

Forget the amount of batteries the cost must be amazing 

£10,794.00 to be exact.Drop in, plug and play system custom built here in the UK and will run at 24v.

Now, this video kind of explains why Lithium are better than Lead Acid of AGM once you get past the cost - I know this cursing couple take some patience to view but they do make it simple to 'get':

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

I have to be a tad careful of giving too much details in public as to the boat, name and location but all will be reveled in due course.

The boat that I am looking at and that I am most keen on has not got any blistering problems, (well it has one 14mm single blister) and the one that I had previously liked the look of and had major blistering, was the result of Copper Coat that had been badly applied (by a 'professional') and subsequently had many air pockets which appear as blisters. However it's hull had a higher than usual moisture reading and oddly more on the Port side.

I am not too worried about the how many amps the various items may consume because of heating as I am going to have a diesel fired 'wet' boiler system installed which I plan on getting from JPC Direct and they can help advise what size of system I would need. This will also provide hot water.

I am not sure if 32Amp supply is something that could exist where I plan to moor, but it won't matter too much because I am stripping the current batteries out and would be putting in over 10Kwh of Lithium cells in the boat, which will be able to run the electric cooking for a Sunday dinner let alone an evening meal and will re-charge in to 90% in an hour and to full in 3 hours so it will be these mainly which I will be using for electrical needs. All the lighting needs to be changed to LED as it is hot running, amp draining Halogen at the moment.

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

Just wanted to update on things so far as this goes:

On Tuesday I traveled down to view the boat that I have almost decided is the one for me . I had stayed overnight and this meant I arrived bright and early before the Broker - who had also traveled a fair way himself - and this meant that the boat was in a 'real' condition - no cleaning up things, no last minute rubbing away of those oil drips etc.  She has some cosmetic issues externally which a good wash down and polish would deal with  a lot of these.

She is an impressive craft, having a large bathing platform and steps on the port side up to what I can only describe as the 'sun deck'. This is an enormous area that can be complete enclosed with fold down vinyl screens, but in the warmer weather is open at all sides. There is a BBQ, sink and extra fridge here and a large 'L' shape seat and solid Teak table. The area is covered with Teak decking which (like all the decks) thankfully have not been aggressively cleaned and worn and remain smooth with the caulking flush with the Teak strips.

From here there is a small ladder to the fly bridge, I'd say there is easily seating for 5 people and the helm. Sadly there is water ingress behind one of the screens which I think is used for the autohelm. There is also a switch that is broken which I think is for the trim tabs, but there is a further trim tab control switch which I think would be the replacement and the original was left in situ. Since I plan to have these systems updated anyway it is not a big problem, an their are only repeaters for the main controls in the lower helm.

Coming inside she really is something special. I got the feeling of real serenity, very quiet and cost. Lots of beautiful wood with perfect joinery on show, but the real star was the cabins - the grain of the wood hand matched to follow from door to door, soft curves, perfect fit. Granite sinks surrounds in the head, solid teak flooring and shower tray keep reminding yo this is a proper 'little ship'. Any fibre glass is kept to the bare minimum on show and only where absolutely needed.

The wardrobes are lined with Cedar to help stop moths making their home and controlling moisture, the cabin sole is not a laminate of Holly & Teak we may be used to on high end hire boats, but the real deal - solid with a beautiful rich luster. No damp smell, no mildew anywhere and every panel that was lifted showed a dry interior with no water marks or damp.

The galley is like a modern apartment - built in microwave, fridge freezer, washer dryer and even a dishwasher. Electric fan assisted oven and ceramic hob mean there is no gas to worry about. From here is the master suite with island double and ensuite. Masses of drawers and hanging space, and like ever cabin she has reverse cycle air conditioning which will cool and heat.

But what I had not seen in any photo was the engines - having seen several of these boats in Brokers listings the engine bay always seems to suffer rather a lot from corrosion - which would suggest a lot of moisture and salt is making its way in, but this craft had a newer baffle system for the engine bay - and the entire space was spotless. No visible signs of any water leaks, oil leaks, no tell tale yellowing of the paint on the engine which could indicate an overheat. The Engines each producing a little over 500HP looked in great condition and benefited from recent servicing 3 months previous and new exhaust pipes (port side one had suffered some issues) and along with the anti-fouling and other work it was estimated £15,000 had been spent to bring her to the condition she is in now.

The problem I am have is finding any real issues I can haggle on price over - she is already keenly priced compared to others of her year but I was told the seller is 'keen to do a deal' so I am intending on letting them stew just a few more days and then coming up with an offer and seeing where we go. Other good points is the mooring is transferable for no fee to me and is paid up until next March which takes the pressure of needing to get her up to Norfolk and one can have some works undertaken where is now, which having made some esquires is surprisingly competitive compared as to hourly rates compared to the Broads.

 

[Would You Buy An Edwina Burgee?]

I would love the double take people would do when think they know what it says then read it again and see what it actually says.