[Big Changes Ahead]

There CATS 660HP (3196 is the model) - not to say underneath is a Cummins base going on. Whatever, there bloody big things.

Caterpillar-Owners-Manual.pdf

[Big Changes Ahead]

Some good advice. I know I am speaking aloud a lot here, well typing so forgive the long posts and so on but this is a rather big thing to contemplate and spend on so it nice to let things out to fellow boaty types.

Here are some photos of the engines - as they go, there not too bad for age and considering the salt environment subject to. The only thing I noted was this the 'green corrosion' around the inlet on the left hand engine in the first image below. It looks as if it has either come 'up' from the pipe or has a crack that is letting liquid seep out. Right hand engine duplicate looks perfect.

The Teak deck has a lot of 'meat' left in it, and it just looks like beginning to be the time where some attention is needed (possible sand and seal) since some caulking is maybe 2mm above the surrounding teak on the fore deck area.

Upper helm wheel has begun to split:

Upper helm seating has a small tear and the cover rubbing in the wind over time has caused the vinyl  to crack and wear:

 

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

I am not one to like estate agents personally, and those working for a certain chain whose offices seem to resemble a Spa come bar with fridges of spring water and fancy lighting are the worst.

1 hour ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Are you concerned about the osmosis given that it has been dried each winter,  will you want to continue that practice,  that has got to be worth a reduction on its own. 

Boats get Osmosis - though in recent years great lengths have been gone to in resins and gel coats to attempt to stop this being the case. This boat has some, not much mind you but it is present - but I bet you any boat from this manufacture of this age would also have some. The key is twofold:

1. Osmosis tends to be worse in fresh water environemnts
2. Osmosis tends to be less if a boat is wintered out of the water

With the above in mind, the fact the boat has been out the water between October and April every year since commission and when in the water has been in salt, then why has she got Osmosis? The hull was Epoxied from new in the factory but before I can get too excited about this and seek further reductions based on this, the price already is very keen compared to others.

My personal biggest concern down the road are the engine hours. I was told they were just about 1,800hrs - now I see actual photos of the digital engine hour meters showing 1,900hrs. I know these big lumps, well maintained can go on and on for many many thousands of hours. But they are mechanical and things do and can go wrong and there is this looming concern in my mind that an overhaul would be needed down the road. As an example a boat for £20,000 more of the same model has engines with only 560hrs (albeit a couple of hundred  horsepower less)

When you add these things up, the higher than average engine hours, that Osmosis, some cosmetic wear internally and externally and then you see the asking price it kind of all makes sense - want something with less well used engines? Pay more. Want something that is in finer fettle externally? Pay more.

These exact same points will be going through any perspective purchasers mind - and they will themselves be considering options, offers and what might come down in the future should they be owners. So far as I am concerned my offer I had in mind has been revised downward, but I certainly am not going to get into some kind of bidding war - life is too short for messing about, it is take it or leave it, I've got plenty of time to wait but conversely if it feels right I could move with short notice to.

As they say, it is not over until the fat lady sings.

[Big Changes Ahead]

James, I am considering a new channel - sort of 'Cruising with Rob' and following all the progress. I am not sure yet, but it is nice to share from the beginning here.  The only thing I can see being a hiccup are:

• Someone else beats me to it.
• I change my mind suddenly because I find something majorly worrying.

The more I can take off the price, of course the better since I could then see that as simple gain and invest the initial saving to spend on the boat. Even £5,000 off the price would pay for the fuel and engine service prior to get her to Lowestoft. Every little helps.

Edited to add: I have just had a call from Broker. He says he has shown some clients' around today. Initially I think to myself 'oh no' could this suddenly mean the boat is pulled from under me, but then...Really? All this time on the market, reduced in price back in June, and now just a day after I get all the details from the Broker he is showing new people round. Hmm maybe but I am feeling this could be a tactic to make me jump.

I can't anyway, because the funds won't be with me until next Tuesday. Fingers crossed this does not turn out to be a burst bubble of dreams so far as I am concerned.

[Big Changes Ahead]

So things are moving and time for an update.

I have had a few conversations with the Broker, who while acting as the typical hyperactive ‘estate agent’ character is also reasonable and helpful and not to pushing.  He has done a great deal in a short amount of time and things are looking positive.

First of all the fact the current owners are getting on in their years and no longer able to manage the boat, and indeed may have to give up boating altogether and not just downsize. This is as good as it gets so far as I am concerned since it was only owned  by one couple and they have likely had a number of different boats over the years and this was their big ticket – custom built to their design and taste (which thankfully is neutral and not garish).

The fewer people have owned a boat the less ‘tinkering’ goes on and if works have been done and it has been done by a professional it adds to the appeal so far a I am concerned. It has been on the market sometime – April 2016 and had a major price reduction this June. There is a healthy market for these types of boats, but generally people prefer the smaller engine options for increased range and economy – this having the largest engine option is perhaps therefore more niche.

I have had it confirmed that the engines have had main agent CAT service history will all relevant paperwork and invoices. Works were carried our annually with anything that was flagged up being attended to. Furthermore, every year between October and April the boat was take out the water for a full underwater check up and kept on the hard over the winter period (nice). I also guess their mooring Contract runs from April to April, and that the yearly out of water time is included in theri mooring. It would be nice if such could be transferred to me, so that I am then in no rush and paying storage fees.

The boat had a full survey completed in 2015. I am pleased to say that there is a pretty clean bill of health. I know that things can deteriorate but I am confident that matters should not have become suddenly shockingly bad in two years. The hull had a ‘professional’ mutli coat of Copper Coat anitfoul – but this perhaps was not done as well as could, since throughout the underside of the hull there are small 2mm-4mm blisters.  Upon removing many of these it was found to be dry and where the Coppercoat was applied trapping air between the surface of the hull and the Coppercoat. There however were found to be a small number of blisters on the starboard chine at the waterline of an Osmotic nature – being between 4mm-6mm in diameter and when checked did contain liquid. Their number is small, location limited  and to be expected with this age of boat.

Sixty moisture readings over the hull were taken using a Tramez Moisture Meter varied on a scale of 0-100 to between 5 and 20. It was considered to be in the low range and therefore satisfactory.

All sea cocks were tested and found to be free and working, the rudders are stainless steel and in good order along with the props (3 blade 37”) the cutlass bearings where possible to inspect were in good order and no play was found in the shaft, props or rudders.

It was noted the hull above waterline is in a good and well maintained and presented conditions especially considering the boats age. Internally the stringers and where inspection was possible bulkheads and were found to be in a good condition.

The recommendations where only 3 items in length:

• It is considered beneficial and good practice to remove the vessel from the water for as long as possible during the winter months in order to allow the underside to dry
• The condition of the osmotic blistering should be monitored for evidence of any further deterioration.
• The ongoing maintenance programme should continue.

So two of the recommendations are the usual given whenever any sign of Osmosis are found – and since most boats have this I can’t say this report shows anything too bothersome. It certainly does not provide anything that is needed to be carried out and a reduction in price sought on the basis of the boats structure.

So where can I get some wiggle room as to price? Well, firstly it’s been on the market for over 17 months, the sellers in this time have used the boat for 20hrs since the engine hours were taken when the boat first came to market. They are older, can’t use the boat and frankly may like to just get this boat of their hands and concentrate on retirement. The engine hours for year are a little higher than I might have liked (1,800hrs) others of similar vintage have between 860hrs and 1250hrs furthermore on the expectation of being sold, they skipped the 2017 service which is now 4 months overdue - it would be nice to have CAT do another prior to me taking the boat away to Norfolk. What I propose to do is take a risk on my part but have  large carrot for the seller.

I am going to do is go view the boat and I am sure I will be happy – then go in with a low initial offer, not subject to a further survey, and the cash can be in the Brokers account that day.  It’s taken off their hands nice and smooth and I hopefully make a good saving on the already low asking price to spend out for some cosmetic works and upgrading of the electronics (already spoken to Broker and he is clearly also keen on this score as it is their yard who would get to do the works).

I’ll update more when things begin to move – possibly in the next 10-14 days.

 

[Fuel Tank Recomendations]

Just an idea - have you considered using Tek-Tanks: http://www.tek-tanks.com/boattanks/standard-boat-tanks/standard-fuel-tanks/

I am not sure as to cost, but lighter and just as resistant to deterioration as Stainless and custom made with internal baffles. Being Polyethylene their thermal properties are different so reducing condensation internally. You can also then have super accurate ultrasonic level instruments fitted.

[Day Boats In London]

Looks good and local for me, something to consider :)

[Changes On Diesel Boats?]

I know things have been hard for high end boat builders in recent years but what seems to happen is any advances in technology so far as engines, efficiency or new thinking does not come from the boat builders. I wonder what may be if an 'outsider' came to the industry with an 'Apple' type vision whereby the boat builder create it all from the engine, to the interior, to the heating etc etc. Let's face it Elon Musk is doing so much and creating change because he brings some excitement and 'distribution' to things and after all it is not his money at risk but investors can't seem to stop funding his ideas.  I guess you could say it has even made governments change their views whereby Tesla seems the shining example all others should follow and sweep aside the issues such as the massive impact all these batteries will have on the environment.

If there is a range of new large engines in Volvo’s line up this is not because of the marine division suddenly investing in huge R&D on new engines, but further up the supply chain as their plant and lorry engines have had to ‘clean up’ and become more efficient.

The fact is, while there are a lot of boats out there in the worlds Marina’s they do an awful lot of going nowhere so collectively their emissions surly would not account for much.

What bothers boat owners more than the gases coming out their exhaust is fuel economy. If there was a viable way to reduce this – perhaps though a part electric/diesel drive it would go down a boon – you could have an awful lot of power stored in large format Lithium cells in a boat, and think about this what Marina does not have electric hook up?  

So perhaps there is room for innovation in this area whereby the average 35ft sports cruiser that sleeps 4 could have a large electric motor to drive the propellers  linked to a smaller diesel engine/generator.  I say smaller, it would still have to be a few hundred horsepower but it would not have to run constantly and for short fast hops would it be needed at all? If you could get something to do the magic 30Knts that seem to sell faster boats, have a range of say 60 Nm on electric alone would people mind?

They could increase range with the engine running, but the point would be for the average short hop the recreational boater does they could arrive at a visitor berth in the Marina they have travelled to, plug in and re-charge their batteries. The real issue is the sheer cost of making this happen, compared to the tried and tested duel ending set up we are all so used to.

The only space that is innovating is the outboard motor sector where even larger ‘engines’ are going electric.

I think the larger worrying problem is when you have Governments set on making Diesels these horrible, planet destroying machines and setting us on a path to their demise by a set date, it does beg the question what about boats? Imagine if you reach 2040 and it has been an overwhelming success and there are more electric vehicles on the road, more small effect little petrol buzz boxes and the Government says that this should now extend to recreational boats – and by say 2060 only large commercial craft could have Diesel engines and all others either change, scrap or don’t use.  I know it sounds farfetched, but I don’t think many would have guessed that a government would be planning to ban diesel cars from cities 30 years ago so you can never say never.

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

7 hours ago, smellyloo said:

When your carefully thought out emergency plan will need to come into effect. What have you stowed in your emergency bag? Do you have time to grab your chart (paper) with your last known position marked?

Well one would hope this never would happen, but this is a good point and one would expect to have sufficient time to prepare before ditching since the only time you would ever want to get into the life raft is when all really is lost and the boat is either on fire or otherwise sinking is well underway.

I've got a ACR Electronics Rapid Ditch Bag.  In this I would keep copies of the insurance and title of the boat, a copy of my ID some spare cash.  A cheap mobile phone pre-charged ready to go with credit, it also will be the place the previously spoken about satellite phone is kept and rounding off comms will be a hand held DSC enabled VHF. Other handy items might be a spare set of house keys - sounds funny, but imagine you are rescued, boats gone down and you want to get home but know you're screwed as you could not get in as your keys went down with the boat.

I would have some drinking water in bottles, some basic medication such as pain killers, sea sickness tablets, and small first aid kit. Also some basic food stuffs,  some high energy snacks and even some good old nuts - last ages and release energy slowly.

To compliment the electronics a hand bearing compass, some flares - though I also like the new LED flares - expensive but have a 6 hour battery life and a several mile visible range. Foil blankets, gloves, and  a powerful LED torch too. A decent knife is a good idea just in case you have to cut a line suddenly.

But the point you raised was: 'do you have time to grab your chart (paper) with your last known position marked'. Now of course it depends on how often you mark positions, but in good condition what would you say every 10 minutes? You need to then take this unwieldy paper blanket off with you along with your kit. I'd rather just grab my phone - its waterproof anyway, and would have the same software running on it as the plotter - itself having its own GPS position so knowing where I was would be easy. But again it comes back multi redundancy systems since you've got a ready to go secondary waterproof GPS unit in your ditch bag should you not grab your smartphone on the way out. The confidantes therefore is bang up to date, not what happened a few minutes back.

One of the biggest issues that the Coastguard have is lack of information -  what is actually going on and where it is happening. You only have to see a few TV programs or read some MAIB reports to see how confusion began right at the point of initial call.

Many people don't follow protocol when calling in a distress (even commercial skippers) or wait too long before they do which means things have got to the stage where things really are rapidly going down hill - then you have panic and worry setting in, confusion and so on.

With items like real time location tracking even if you've been caught up in a right mess and you find yourself in a RIB or life raft and your handheld VHF is not cutting it being so low down and without the same power of the boats main one, to then be able to either make a call to the Coastguard via sat phone and then use your coordinates to say where exactly you are and what has unfolded is a great boon. An EPIRB  should be somewhere on the boat that is possible to grab and take as you leave, if not it should float free so at least gives a starting point for search and rescue to make for if all else is lost.

The generally perceived view is that an electronic devices   fail and if it does it will do so just when you need it most. It might have been the case once, but these days with solid state electronics and moisture proof enclosures they tend to be pretty stable.

What i find interesting is, so many people who sail and motorboat use paper charts - but they use a GPS receiver as an easy way to fix their location on the chart. Often the units they trust to get their fix  are more suited to fell walking and the like, they work just fine but if that fails because the AA batteries run flat or otherwise is dropped and broken, then do they have another waiting to go in the drawer?

I would not think of using a 16 year old computer to get online with or write a Word document, let alone plot my course and yet many many boats are out there with such outdated kit as primary navigation tools - I wonder too how often the map cartilages are updated on them. Worrying stuff.

When it comes down to it, I don;t want to think too much about what is going on so far as when I am, that should be easy, the harder part and issue to take real caution is the weather state and what it is forecast to do.

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

Do you have any idea how many owners of large sea boats have no idea really what to do so far as navigation goes, or how well prepared they are should things not go to plan? Many. These are the people who get an iPad download an App set off from Harbour and once out of  WiFi range their map stops loading are in a right mess.

The problem is a lot of stuff you read, videos you watch are based on sailing and sailing really does need more respect about what the wind is doing and tide since to a large degree you are at its mercy. Motorboats go where they are pointed (for the most part) but the manufactures want to sell them as lifestyle accessories and thus make their use as easy and 'car like' as possible and as electronics generally have become so much part of our daily life, high end marine kit seems so clunky and outdated.

Imagine now being confronted by a chart plotter you can't use with touch - you know you would instinctively touch the screen being so used to tablets, only to find that nope it just a screen damn it. Manufactures have been in a bit of an 'arms race' over the last few years making their kit more 'iPad' and less '1990's grey PC' some had got it right others not so much.

On the latest models, you can say you are at point A and tap point B then auto route between the two. No, not a straight line, this route is based on the safety passage, least distance - knowing your draft it will keep you out of the shallows, set all your way points, talk to the auto helm and frankly all you do is press go. Of course you should check the route, know the chart data  and how to read such before you but how many would just hit go and..go. That is the joy of technology and danger because you've automated so much it makes it feel so easy and you invincible.

I am not going to Southampton Show. But would go London in January where I can then be in a position to know what I  have,  what I then need and end up with something I thought might be important but probably would not be. Even if I had money to, I would never buy a new boat.

Frankly I find a lot of the stuff produced today is poor in terms of the actual difference between designs.  It seems the key is making as many, and as large holes in the side of the hull as you can, have a master cabin in the middle of the boat which must have a seat by said windows but then blow the real cash on IPS drives and engines from Volvo Penta because - well because that just is what has become the norm increasingly. 

This  puts great pressure on the cost of the boat not to be too extreme or jump to much from a previous years model. They are trying to give their customers their cake and if not eat it, at least let them try for a bite. The interior suffers.  Less joinery, less skill, more moulded in items, modular 'set pieces' that can be slotted in, screwed down and look okay until you open a door or give it a knock and you see how it really is. The galley is a dying area too. I genuinely am waiting for the first boat where it becomes an option and not standard, instead just having a tall cupboard somewhere with a combi microwave,  coffee machine and fridge in it.

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

The real point Chris is not how the information is shown to you, (be it paper of chart), it is understanding that information and taking the right course of action - this only experience brings you and something I very much am keen to learn so I can be comfortable as you one day and not need to ask 'do you think that is right' to someone for clarification.

[Big Changes Ahead]

Chris, I am a novice so far as navigation but a sponge for information. Although I have been practicing with paper charts for a while and RYA training tools. This might cause some 'annoyance' to old school hands with what I am going to say, but these days I don't think paper charts are required so long as you have suitable electronic solutions and multiple redundancies to them.

Navigating by a paper chart is like reading a book, there is something comforting about it and its natural skill, but with major shipping pretty much all using ECIDS now I wonder how long the need for paper charts will be there, and so far as the Maritime & Coastguard Agency are concerned if you are pleasure craft under 150gt you do not need to carry paper charts anyway.

The issue so many refer to mind you is: 'it is all very well but what happens when the system crashes' - now this is a good point, one why I would never use FURUNO based prosumer products as their base software has been Microsoft XP. They do crash and just no, not for me. I could go over other manufactures and show the pluses and minuses but tell me this, when did your sat-nav, tablet or smartphone last actually 'crash' - you know, freeze up can't do a damn thing with it type thing? Well, for me over several devices it never has.

So if you have a custom software, on custom a built device tested over many thousands of hours I would be happy to bet it will not cause issue, but I would not rule it out never happening. In the last 3 years especially, the advances in marine electronics have been massive - and make any sort of course or book on their use seem vastly outdated.  

But, to begin  I would never have them run off the same domestic battery circuit - I'd have mine on a separate, sealed power system so if the main battery/power system goes tits up navigation stays running. If the unit itself crashes or breaks, there would be a separate system - synced via onboard WiFi to the first (master) and then finally by Tablet and Phone apps. Therefore to loose a phone, tablet, back up sub-system and master system would be unprecedented.

Despite all this, and knowing where you are you have needed to still be very aware even with auto helms as they have a problem - they don't really think much for themselves and don;t take into account tidal drift and wind direction and what this may cause the boat to do during its passage. - not a big issue for a short trip, but if you left Great Yarmouth for Holland you might not end up where you expected. So having a smart system that can counter this in real time and take account of prevailing wind speed and direction and cause the boats rudders to continually adjust between way points is handy and would be installed.

So that is the knowing where you and going to sorted what about what is around you? Well commercial grade AIS will show you where large shipping is (and them where you are) and the latest solid state radar will pick up a lobster pot float from several miles out to 20feet. Forward scan sonar also helps with detecting shallows ahead, and will talk to the auto helm and chart plotter to raise the alarm if automated action is not possible. But what happens when something happens that may not be anything to do with the boat, someone falls, has a heart attack etc? You need contact the shore fast. Now sure you've got good old VHF and with DSC, but it can also be handy to have a phone - wherever you are that will work, so an Inmarsat Isatphone will be onboard, The boat will also have an EBIRB itself and crews life jackets can be fitted with a PLB (personal locator beacon).

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

6 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

Whatever power plants you end up with, servicing / maintenance etc can easily be a diy thing, that's a decent saving

Griff

Indeed. I have found where the usual parts can be got now, and their estimated costs. Will be a case of filters from CAT direct, oils and grease from EXOL - a UK based company with really helpful tech team to talk with over the phone. They can supply CAT approved coolant pre-mixed in 25 litre amounts too. The ASAP supplies for impellers and Zincs.

I have also found uprated, high efficiency oil filters that would fit the engine direct from CAT with a smaller micron element to catch more contaminates ideal as engines get older.

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

Well thanks for the replies - and I apologise if having 'come out' about this here and you will now be subjected to my long posts and thoughts.

I have to say what a wonderful resource Google (and the wider Web) really is. Within a short time today I was able to find a lot more information and I am now more confident about matters (so far as one can be at this stage), after all I there is a long way to go but I like to be a prepared as possible.

The reason I had a ‘wobbly moment’ was reading up about things – even in videos from ‘experts’ working for Yachting & Boating World and they will mention CAT engines with praise for their power and ruggedness and then counter it with a line such as ‘so long as you have a local CAT specialist’ as if not to have such would be a terrible move.

I have also been looking online for serviceable items from Volvo Penta and once you are in the this sort of horsepower range, the items might be easier to locate from various sources online, but the prices are often the same (sometimes more) and if you look for faults in any brand you will find them.

The absolute key to anything is looking after the oily bits. Good quality oils and regular oil changes will do a great deal to keep any engine happy. CAT engines are a little odd in so far as the official advice is to fit filters (both for fuel and oil) dry.  I can see the reason so far as the oil – the engine still will be thoroughly coated in oil after the sump has been pumped and the oil pump shift great qualities of oil quickly. In short you’d not run the engine dry and would take 3-5 seconds to get oil pressure up and make changing the filter so much easy as it would be light work to lift.

Here is a tip: If you do pre-fill an oil filter never do it from the centre hole for this is the ‘clean side’ so you are just putting unfiltered (albeit new but possibly contaminated) but oil into your engine. Fill from the smaller outside holes which circle the large hole that way the new oil then has to pass through the filter medium once screwed in place and you start the engine up.

I don’t agree with the idea of fitting dry fuel filters mind you. Injectors and the fuel system on modern engines are hugely expensive items, and injectors do not like to be run with air through them, which you’d force them to do if did not prime a fuel filter. Again pre-fill from the outer holes, bung the centre hole if you need to and always have a secondary off engine fuel filter system too. Here is a nightmare with the BBS and what they will and will not allow so far as glass bowl type filter and water separators go.

Now, moving on to John and your link to a Broom Ocean 38 – the problem I have with these (and not just this model actually even larger and newer models) is there is a great deal of ‘hire boat’ feel about them. What I mean by this is take the heads and the sink moulding and then the acres of vinyl on the headlining and cabin sides.  It lakes that special, cosy and warm feeling not to mention ‘wow factor’.

I was looking at Broom 50 that is up for sale with NYA. Lovely no doubt, but you can only helm from up top – imagine that on a damp, cold day with all the condensation inside the windows and the cold metal wheel to hold. It also suffers from having this obsession with seating everywhere which to my eye looks odd and uses otherwise handy space to put things.

I have seen some lovely boats out there, three cabins say – but all double beds – this limits the boats accommodation a great deal, or where you have a large boat masses of space and yet only sleeps 4 in two large cabins. It is funny how ‘we on the Broads’ are happy and used to a cabin without the need of an ensuite or that a couple of small berths are fine but this would horrify some. As I mentioned above, some boats seem to go the other way, smaller cabins, but made up with masses of damn seats! Seats outside and up on the fly bridge, seats in saloon curving to the left and more seats curving right just ahead of them – some even then have a dinette opposite the galley in with yet more seats – and you know why? Because if you own one of these you don’t actually have guests onboard to stay you have parties onboard and need to accommodate bums sat down and champagne flutes.

I like the idea to plan a proper trip, take the time, enjoy the journey not at 30 knots being pushed around and holding on but a more sedate cruise. A proper galley you can actually make a meal in not a combi microwave, hot plate and small bowel sink. A sink you stand at in the heads and it not be made from fibre glass and a shower with a Teak grate the small touches that remind you this is a real boat for comfort.

But finally, the other big eye opener is when you want to go with some high end navigational tech - we are used to computers, laptops, tablets and phones and the prices you get with such technology, but this is not a 'buy one for all' solution, I am going to have cut back on somethings as I priced out some Simrad gear and that came on in at over £31,000.  Few less bells and whistles me thinks lol.

[Rip For A Wonderful Lady]

I am so sorry to hear this John, and I hope you see that while you might feel so many emissions, great worry and of course deep sadness but you're doing good and you will continue to do so. It is easy to imagine things right now as overwhelming, for me when my Dad passed, it was like a huge mess or twisted metal and darkness that I had to somehow get past.

Take things as they come in pieces, try not to dwell on the larger things and you will get there - and we are all here to listen and help too. Take care.

[The Broads In The 1950's]

Just keep an eye on You Tube and every so often a gem will pop up. I have some old Cine film here marked 'broads' which is not in the best of conditions but I will be getting transferred to digital files for upload to You Tube in due course. Also, I know somewhere I have an old camcorder video from 1999 or 2000 which I filmed goodness knows where the tape is camcorder long since packed up but I am sure is somewhere.

[Big Changes Ahead]

I've been making some enquires today about the engines that the boat I am keen on has installed (CAT 3196's) - now to be honest I have some mixed feelings about Caterpillar engines because while the everyday serviceable items are things any competent person can deal with, anything outside this and you need a more specialist service personnel.  These are not that easy to come by and the 'go to' place seems to be down in the south coast called Fining (big company) but only have three places in the UK that can deal with CAT Marine Engines. One in Poole, another in Reading and finally in Aberdeen. The boat has had a full service history with their operations in Poole

Now, if you have a Volvo Penta  engine, while perhaps not so common on the Broads, they are ubiquitous and someone is never too far with the knowledge and tools not to mention the fact that parts are easy to find online too.  Now try finding parts online for a CAT engine and their costs - it not straight forward.

Now of course running any large powered marine engine is not going to be doable on pocket money but  things are suddenly looking very costly from the information I have gleaned so far.

The engine needs a service ever 250hrs which is quite a short interval considering some of the more modern Iveco, Yanmar and Volvo Penta engines might have up to a 600hr service interval.

The CAT 3196 suffered from heat exchanger/aftercooler problems and CAT had a big lawsuit in the US about this some years back.   If not dealt with the metal within the exchangers( the wrong type used to begin with so I understand) this ends up where it should not causing a lot of issues with the engine down the line.  This is somewhat of a worry if the boat has engines effected and works to replace the heat exchangers were not carried out. So that is something else to look into, and defo have all fluids sent for analysis  It is common that Glycol is found in the oil on these engines when the results come back and this is down to  the head gasket beginning to leak just a tad.  If the oil pressure is good it is not too serious but will get worse in time. I've read to have new head gaskets fitted can cost something like £5,000 plus -  and you can double that if both engines have the issue.  

The impellers don't last much over a year either which drive Sherwood Pumps - the cheapest I have found is ASAP Supplies at £197.33 each and of course two are needed.

Each engine needs 12 Zinc Anodes and again you are advised to change these every season, so 24 of those little things and that works out to £144.00 from ASAP Supplies.

Next up is oil, each engine needs 25 litres of the stuff and the advised choice is go with CAT oil but CAT don't actually make engine oil. The engines do need the right additive mix mind you and I have found that  Exol marine123 exceeds these standards  and two 25 litre drums come in at £106.00 - but you've got to add on delivery if not collecting from a distributor. Each engine also needs 19 litres of coolant, which while not needing to be changed at every service is not going to be cheap for the right stuff and mix.

So for a 250 hr service, parts only would be over £600.00 - plus  the all important oil filters  and fuel filters (unable to find prices online) . Now I am the first one to admit this is all new to me on this scale, and someone with an equivalent output Volvo Penta might say "well that is about what it costs me" the issue I have is not so much the money it is the ease in which Volvo Penta man can find, price up, and but the parts online. You can't even just presume that the engine in your boat can accept the cheaper items the same engine in a digger might use, since CAT are clever and each item is application dependent to serial number - marine engines parts cost more than the engine parts used in construction equipment - funny that.

I'd take a guess that since Broom have fitted some high power CAT engines in their boats they would be the local 'go to' place for support outside the usual service items one can handle on ones own, and advise more about parts and so on.  The other thing is the boat has been close to the inland waterways, so that is the fun of a BSS to have done and you can bet your boots that is going to throw up a number of things needing to be changed in order to pass.

Still, nobody said this would be a walk in the park.

 

[The Broads In The 1950's]

What a remarkable video this is, in such vivid colour and so well filmed and edited following a family holiday on the Broads back in the 50's on board Shining Light from Herbert Woods:

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

1 hour ago, imtamping2 said:

I would assume the tender will be called "Day".......

I could be really clever and just refer to it as 4.7.96  

[Mariners Notice 26 Re Sunken Wreck]

Nah, I'll pass on that one :)

[Mariners Notice 26 Re Sunken Wreck]

Got to love Google Maps:

[Big Changes Ahead]

I've got the boat name sorted some time ago 'Independence' the tender hmm I might just have a lil competition over that one..

[London Rascal]

Hi, thanks for heads up but I want a large, powerful motorboat for coastal use. For river use I have Broad Ambition (though of course she has been to sea several times herself). In time I will be posting how things go cos' I am sure this is going to be one big adventure full of ups as well as downs.

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

Richard, you are right everything does degrade (leave bare GRP without its gel barrier and it will not last) but when you are buying something like this, having one less thing to worry about is handy and for me not needing to worry as much about what the hull is doing is nice. It was from factory epoxy coated and it has since had a Copper anti foul applied - which is a boon too.

Now, I admit that painted surfaces polish up really nice, and have a luster unlike any gelcoat could but it is a paint, it is (so far as surfaces go) thin and it will need to be kept in good order to maintain the steel under it. GRP boats simply require less ongoing care - no need to have an ultrasound reading done on hull thicknesses every so many years or worry about having to have the paint dealt with one day in the future when it is finally past its best.

So far as a Shetland hull being covered in Osmosis after only three years in the water seems unacceptable to me.Either was something seriously amiss in production (possible claim) or, if this is just how they are, then I pity the owners of Shetland boats generally if you're looking at that after such a short space of time. 

 

[Big Changes Ahead]

Points of interest about the Traders from 2011 onwards - gone are the separate controls for throttle and gear (I am sure this is more for ham fisted Americans who love these) The only reason I can see, is they can't get to grips with a single combined throttle and gear control fearing they might topple forward when slow speed maneuvering in and our of gear and shoot off into another boat. Anyway post 2001 models feature  professional Kobelt electronic controls - one of these alone costs  €6779.00. I'd like to think they don't breakdown during the life of a boat!

That is not to say there are not minus points - Caterpillar engines are not as advanced as the latest equivalent offerings from Volvo Penta since they have none of the EVC controls, so HP for HP might burn a bit more fuel and may be alittle less smooth and quiet (Volvo Penta D12 715HP as an example can be, for their size incredibly efficient and smooth running)

That said, outside of the usual service items things are costly Impellers on Caterpillar engines  I have heard that an impeller is £300 a pop for example.

It is not just under the floor, the electric toilets are Jabsco - I'd like to replace with Tecma units (their 1/2 HP macerators could handle the largest of logs)   The navigation and radar would need updated (Simrad) with their open array Halo Pulse Compression radar, side and structure  scan sonar, and auto helm. Simrad is not as well adopted in the UK, with the likes of Raymarine leading but here is an idea:

So got the plans, just don't want to miss the boat and avoid getting a lemon!