GregAfloat

You're right! I know nothing of Jenner's, other than recalling it as a name in Blake's catalogues. However, I'm not clear why

Ah! I see my Asperger's is causing upset in others again! My symptoms include a complete failure to take offence at anything. I just wonder why someone feels that way when I detect they are trying to make a particular point. It's fine for me! I live in blissful confidence I'm doing or saying the right thing! The trouble is it also means I have no understanding of how what I say will be received by others. I often describe it as transmitting in grey. There's no colour in what I say, just my understanding of the position. But it seems others see or add colour that I was not aware was in my transmission. Often that colour is red and they rage at me. Mmmm! I wonder why they feel that way. I just don't understand. Please forgive me if I rile or offend you. I truly don't mean to!

That's the info in the database at the moment, not something I'm adding. I had remembered that Dawn-Craft (Horning) had only been around a couple of years (according to Craig) so I just looked up a couple of entries before posting A.G. Ward, because, after your mention of Jenners being involved in mass moves between fleets, I wasn't certain of to whose fleet they had gone (according to Craig). Craig did absolutely sterling work in even attempting to record all boat movements between fleets, but it's a task that would defeat anyone to maintain with complete accuracy. That's why I support the current plan to ensure that in future a small team can take on that task and not leave it so one can update it.

For many purposes you're right, but sometimes the correct name matters. My wife bought, on line, some Milk Parsley to plant in a couple of sites around our house. We'd been told by members of the local Butterfly Protection group that there was a chance that, along with the reed we have, providing their food might help us with our bid to get sighting of the Swallowtail. Turns out there are three different plants that go under that name and we'd bought the wrong one! No chance of Swallowtails! My aim is to begin to build an accurate history of the Hampton Safari, so I think accuracy is helpful for any who follow in their further research. But you're right, if all participants in a conversation know that the term "Dawncraft" represents, a norfolk-based boat builder, all remains understood. But clearly there's a recognised possibility of confusion with the canal boat company of Kinver and in forum with national participation finding a name that avoids any possibility of confusion is useful. So as a one time owner of the local company is known to have referred to it as Dawn-Craft (Wroxham) I'm going to try always to spell it that way.

And leaving aside the Dawn-Craft (Wroxham) side of, there's Dawn-Craft (Horning) to consider. They had a similar pattern of naming their boats. The motor boats all including "Coral" in their name and yachts "Reed/Reedling". As Vaughan says, it seems they were all bought in, en masse, from others yards, and sold on again, a couple of years later, to A.G. Ward when that business ceased. However, I'm not planning to pursue that avenue as it's not related to the Hampton Safari and Dawn-Craft (Wroxham)'s building of their variant. Paul (of Shorebase) has told me in an email that he got the spelling of "Dawncraft" for the Wroxham business from Bill Maxtead of Rivererine Boatyard at Loddon. Having been away from the local forums for some time I don't known if he is still contributing to them, but I assume it accounts for Paul's name "Dawncraft 26". I also guess Bill would know why there there is the name "Dawncraft 26" and it's not known as a Safari and whether it might more properly be referred to as "Dawn-Craft 26" to avoid any confusion with boats built by the Kinver-based company, many of which were also named by their length.

I'm trying, and so far have failed, to find a detailed image of the Blakes badge that was seen on the bows of every boat booked through them. I recall that wording on the belt that wrapped around the "A flag" said something like "Norfolk Broads Boat Owners Association", so I was always aware that they were more than a London based booking agency by the early 1960s.

That is a sad story! I had no idea! It also explains the reference to the "Safari Toplet recirculating marine toilet" in the Hampton advert that you see at: https://hamptonsafari.uk/theboats.php The info is worth having a page devoted to it on the site. I don't suppose you know of any photos that show one being installed or before and after images?

Ah! History! Have you found: http://www.thepleasureboat.com/history.html which does mention that event. Once upon a time I had a barter arrangement. I maintained the pub web site, in exchange for a free mooring. When that fell by the wayside, it became a pub DIY job using WIX as the host. The WIX site is gone. However, most of my old site is still available. Just don't try the "Home" link. It dates from the time sites didn't need to be mobile friendly or have SSL, so you do need to ignore any warnings your browser offers to reach it. It holds up reasonably well on a phone but even on my tablet I need to hold it in landscape mode to see things as intended.

Thanks for that! It adds a good deal of weight to my assumptions. Whether it's limited or not, and and it is hard to believe it was not, one thing is fairly certain. It was not the single word "Dawncraft". I'd suggest the catalogue writers/typesetters were probably a little lax in their diligence, and to be fair, it wasn't critical to them to present the full legal name correctly, just indicate the yard where the boat was to be picked up. For them the order of the "Ltd" and "Wroxham" and whether there should be any brackets was inconsequential. I'm still inclined to believe it was hyphenated. because no one seems to challenge the Horning branch's spelling and I'm still guessing that was a related company. Perhaps John Clabburn was just saving a few pennies on a per letter charge for the sign by leaving off the LTD for the Dawn-Craft bit when constructing the boat now known as 638H Osprey.

I may have confused you there. The drawing I'm referring to is not in the catalogue, but the one first uploaded by Paul to the Shorebase site after his interview with Heather Hampton. I cleaned up Paul's scan and it's now available here: https://hamptonsafari.uk/techdrawings.php As you'll see it lacks a location for the engine and other details. The drawing you show in the 1970 catalogue is another Paul obtained but only in a Hampton Brochure, that I date 1973, only because it has reference to a boat that joined the fleet that year. See: https://hamptonsafari.uk/brochures.php But now you mention it I do recall the days when the brochures would show line drawings for boats still under construction when the catalogue went to print.

Many thanks, Vaughan! Really useful stuff! For a start, given the 1968 drawing, I had assumed the Safari first appeared in the 1969 Blakes catalogue, so I'll check what I've written on the site and correct that. I know the database does say Surprise Safari was built in 1969. You can pick up a lot of what you describe about the early 1960s from Craig's database, After finding the builder's plaque photo I searched at Companies House for any limited companies using "dawncraft" or "dawn-craft" in the name but failed to find any. That maybe because both the Wroxham and Kinver companies were wound up before the records were put on line. I also failed to find John Clabburn's company, but I did find his name listed as a director two companies, one wound up. I called the other, leaving a message that I was researching Safaris and asking about contacting John. He was born in 1945 so I presume not heavily active in day to day concerns. However, I've not had a response. I was unaware of any dispute between Bondon and Hampton, or the nature of Alec's death, but was aware that they had some very similar design in their wooden hire fleet days. Your news suggests that Bondon did not have access to the Mk1 moulds and they are slightly more likely to have bought their "Dawncraft 26"s from Dawn-Craft. Perhaps the very fact they had them caused a fuss and that's why no more were built for several years? I wonder if anyone has a 1972 or 1973 Blakes brochure that might supply some kind of confirmation about Bondon's fleet at that point - particularly the point the Shorebase site says about twin not a double bed in the aft cabin. Is it habit that you spelt the name "Dawncraft", or a feeling that the plaque doesn't tell the story I think it might. I also remain curious about the here-today gone next year nature of the business the database calls "Dawn-Craft (Horning)" Any memories of that? It appears to be one of those outfits that was buying up the fleets of others and failed to last. Given your memories of boat building in the 1960s you might be interested in this little snippet: It comes from: https://gregafloat.org.uk/broads/1965siesta.php

You're right about the very different Kinver/Stourport company. If you follow the builder link in my original post, you'll see I do mention it and note that has nothing to do with the Wroxham business, or "Dawn-Craft (Horning)", which I suspect may well be related to the Wroxham business.

In almost every case with links like that you only need the first part as far as the ".html" or ".php" and you can cut out the ? and anything after it. e.g. https://sg.news.yahoo.com/wildlife-trust-buys-pub-promote-070759833.html

I am researching the history of Hampton's "Safari25" and in particular the version "Dawn-Craft (Wroxham)" built, often referred to as the "Dawncraft 26". There are a couple of things that are unclear: 1. What is the name of the business? I have seen it referred to on the Web as "Dawncraft", "Dawncraft of Wroxham" and even "Dawncraft Boats Ltd". But these all date from the 1990s onwards twenty years and more after the boats were built. I recently came across a builder's plaque photographed on a standard "Safari25" Mk2. that spells it "Dawn-Craft (Wroxham)" and I would assume, as it was created at the time the boat was built, would be more likely to be an accurate representation of the business name. 2. Who built the first "Dawncraft 26"? Internal data in the "Boats of the Norfolk Broads" database records the first two as being built by "Dawncraft of Wroxham" and launched at R.& C. Bondon at South Walsham in 1972. Further examples were not built until 1975 and all went to the Brinkcraft fleet. These later boats differ in a number of ways, e.g. they have an additional small porthole aft of the main windows. So were the first two really fitted out by Dawn-Craft (Wroxham) or were R & C Bondon the builders and they have mistakenly been classified as Dawn-Craft boats as they look similar? You can read more about this and see the builder's plaque at: https://hamptonsafari.uk/builderdawncraft.php and https://hamptonsafari.uk/dawncraftvariant.php

Thanks for the info, oldgregg, and I can say that as a 2Gs Greg (Often people take me to be a baker, or spelt like one. ) As you'll have seen, I'm keen to offer help in getting the revised database live as soon as possible. You clearly have a staged plan worked out, but you don't reveal what the time scales are for each step or if you need additional help to achieve the next step. Are you on schedule? If not, what's causing the hold up? I understand, or is it assume, that the plan is to develop a system where a team of authorised people can login to maintain and update the database. That's very reasonable, as is the intention to migrate the data to a platform likely to be supported well into the future. What you haven't revealed is how anyone outside the existing team can contribute. How do people like me, who believe they may have some of the skills needed, find out what the current needs are? I heard yesterday that Kerris, Craig's widow, is anxious to see the database operational again. Do you report to her on your progress? Is there blog that tells others where you're up to in your plan, and when you expect to achieve the next step and what may be preventing you reach that step? While you are working on your proposed system, is it possible for anyone, perhaps just one or two, not a large team, to step into Craig's shoes and keep the existing database updated, while your work continues in the background? You mention hosting issues but, to the public, there appears to be a readable if "frozen" copy still running, albeit with "danger" warnings on some browsers because SSL has not been implemented. Has any of the data been updated since Craig's death? If not what prevents you doing that? Surely it would be good to have a current data set ready to transfer once the revised system is ready for testing? I promised to call Janetanne within the next couple of days, but having an understanding of some of these technical issues before that call might be helpful.