Feeder Fishing?

[JennyMorgan]

After far too long I have bought myself a decent, Maver quiver tip. Bit of a new challenge for me. Read numerous books on the subject, none seem to agree! Any advice on good titles please. Anyway, immediate problem, which tip? Rod came with 1, 2 & 3 oz tips but so far I have yet to understand how this relates to practical angling. Tide flow and feeder weight I understand but there does seem to be a lot more to it than that. Any advice & help would be much appreciated. Float fishing, Broads style legering and lure fishing are just so easy in comparison, or so it seems! Whole new world is this feeder fishing lark. I'm sure that there is more to it than just lobbing a feeder to the horizon.

[Timbo]

Like you JM I couldn't fathom out the various tips. I was lucky enough to have a couple of lessons from Tony Knight, who I have to admit had the patience of a saint...and needed it with me. If I'm honest it is still more luck than judgement but here's what he managed to impart to me.

Choice of tip is dependant upon the relationship of several factors. These include the size and species of fish you are targeting, the flow of the water, wind, position of the rod and the size of the weight or feeder you are using.

This all seemed as clear as mud until I saw him rig for various conditions. The size of the tip increased with the strength of the wind, size of the weight, bait and target fish. Position of the rod went from a vertical position for flowing water to tip almost touching the water surface on still water. The object was balancing all the elements of the rig through to the rod tip so that the tip does not move until you have a strong, firm indication of a bite.

I finally got the idea when I realised it was a similar technique to swing tipping...which I much prefer. Matt Hayes is quite good...although commercial fishing the principals are the same.

 

[JennyMorgan]

Thanks, Tim, helpful stuff. Like you I do understand swing tipping, something class about watching a classic bream take.

[timh]

As a general rule for bream and roach, you want as little weight on your feeder as the flow will allow. Once you cast out, if the feeder bounces a couple of times then settles, then its about right. This gives a more balanced set up, so when a fish picks up your bait, the feeder will move and the tip will either drop back or jerk forward.

The more flow there is, the stiffer tip you need and the higher in the air you need to set your rod rests to keep the line out of the water. Only experience will tell you about which tip to use, but the lighter the better for bite indication. Once the feeder has settled, then the tip should just have a  slight bend (1-2" or so from straight) in it to show the drop backs, too much bend could result in you not seeing the smaller bites, or cause the fish to drop your bait because they feel the resistance.

There really are no hard and fast rules but on the slower reaches of river or on a broad with little wind or even on the faster rivers at slack tide, then a 1oz tip may be plenty. But on the pacier rivers then 3oz may not seem enough.  If even with a BIG weight on your feeder it still bounces because of the flow, then pay some line out to form a big bow in the line instead of tightening up to your feeder, this will cause less drag and help the feeder hold bottom.

I've not actually fished the broads yet (hopefully first time at Brundall this weekend?) but having grown up fishing the Trent, these are some of the basic things I learned. Hopefully I'll find out on sat, but bites tend to be little rattles from roach, bigger knocks from skimmers and bream will give a knock followed by the tip pulling around. Having said that sometimes the biggest bream give a tiny little indication and a gudgeon may look like its trying to pull the rod in!!!

The main thing to remember to get the most of of feeder fishing is to try to be as accurate as possible with your casting. Pick your spot and try to land the feeder within a few feet of it EVERY time. This will build up your swim and create a nice compact dinner table for the fish to feed on when the shoal turns up. Have one or two casts here and one or two there, and the bait will spread all over the river and whilst you may catch the odd fish, a shoal of bream, say, just wont stay in your swim.

I hope this helps some? Good luck

[JennyMorgan]

Let us know how it goes this weekend, good luck!

[timh]

Jenny - I fished from 6pm until 2pm (minus an hour or so for nipping back to boat for a cuppa and food) and had one of the best, but also frustrating river sessions ever! Started off putting 10 big feeder fulls in, packed with corn, maggots and casters, then put a 2 1/2 ft hooklength on with a 14 hook and 0.16 line , and had a 2lb bream first chuck, then another 3 in the first hour. Was getting loads of indications and decent pulls but missing bites with maggot or corn on so tried worm and had 4 in as many casts. , but then they dissapeared for half hour, then had another about 4lb, then back to 'big plucks on the tip, it wouldn't stay still from liners  but couldnt get a proper bite!

Time for a change, thinks I, so as I got the impression that the fish were actually attacking the feeder (not much flow all night to wash the groundbait out) so shortened the hooklength to 16" to move it closer to the cage and had 2 straight away on triple red maggot (one of my favourite hookbaits for bream, along with worm tipped with a caster) then back to silly little taps.

Time for yet another change, so after a re-think I decided that as there was little flow, I'd revert back to a stillwater style set up ie a paternoster (normally on rivers I will use the loop method) as this is a more sensitive set up as the fish pull directly on the mainline, rather than through the feeder and also lets the hooklength flutter and move around more. This worked for a bit and had a few more bream until they went again. After varying the hook baits without a sign, after 1/2 hour the tip slammed around and a 6lber was in the net, followed by 3 or 4 more slightly smaller fish. It went quiet again, so as I'd not lost a fish or had too much trouble getting them in, I changed down to a 0.12 hooklength and a 16 hook and then had a run of 4lbish fish that had taken the hook right inside the mouth, as opposed to ALL the other fish being lightly lip hooked. The lighter line (but still about 3lb breaking strain) obviously let them suck in the bait more confidently.

I had a really enjoyable session and ended up with 21 bream between 2 and 6lb, for around 70lb. Worm was the essential hookbait, just a shame I only had a few hookers and not enough to chop up and put in the feeder as I'm positive I'd have caught double what I did!! Not bad for first time on the river, first fishing session for nearly 7 months, and my last river fishing was around a year ago. Happy days and hopefully many more to come? 

PS I tried to write this in such a way as to help you get an insight into things you can do to help you catch more. On a good day, you wont need to mess about like I did (its the matchman in me!!!) but if you're not catching there's usually something you can do or change to improve things. Sometimes your starting plan will be the one you finish with, alongside a netfull of fish, but these type of days are not as common as we'd all like!!!!

Hope this helps?

 

[Timbo]

That 'on the feed then off the feed' pattern is something I found to be a 'Norfolk Broads River Phenomenon'. It used to have me scratching my head. Uncle Albert (my Dad) always swore it 'was eels' or 'boat traffic' or 'tide change'. My own pet theory is based on having my younger lad sat fishing the same peg when I was teaching him to fish. The bait would go in, the fish would go on the feed...then stop. The lad fishing just off the baited area due to still practicing his casting accuracy would then land a large perch (He has a way with perch. His very first fish on his very first cast on his first ever fishing trip on his first ever trip to the Broads was a 4 1/2lb perch. Nearly dragged him in!) and then the fish would go back on the feed.

I was watching an old chap fishing at St Benets and he was feeding maggot and chopped worm in what he called a 'meaty mix' but would periodically change his feed and cut out the 'meat'. He was catching steadily all day where everyone else was experiencing the 'on the feed off the feed' phenomenon.

I told my Mrs this was important research that needed investigating. But apparently I have to finish restoring the boat before I'm 'allowed' to go fishing again. Doh!

[MauriceMynah]

Purely a theory of mine, but I always thought that a feeding frenzy of small(ish) fish would bring along Mr Pike (though he'd never say his name) causing the fish to go off the feed and run away. Mr Pike would lose interest and bugger off and all the fish would come back.  

[timh]

Maurice-a very viable theory, and does happen regularly on my local waters (trent) but I'm sure this wasn't what was happening, I think what Timbo says is closer to the truth.

Although there was obviously a big shoal of bream there, I think they were very 'cautious'. I'd catch a few and then they'd stop like they had become wary of what I was doing. So I made a change and catch a couple more then they backed off again, leading to me making another change and catching a couple more.....and so on!

This can happen on heavily fished waters, but in Brundall, at this time of year, angling pressure is minimal (I've only ever seen pike anglers since being in Brundall in november 16) so cant imagine they have been caught too many times? Maybe its in their breeding?!

I think they were backing off after a couple were caught, but not moving too far away as it didnt take too long for them to come back. Maybe if I'd cast around the edges with a single bait and a bomb, I may have picked a few more up? Might try it next time, although if I'm doing that then I'm not building up a bed of feed in my proper swim, so could be a gamble. Or maybe that is the problem...... although I was using a decent sized feeder, maybe it just wasnt big enough to put enough feed in to hold the shoal? 

Oh I do love fishing and the puzzles it brings for me to solve. Just a shame the seasons nearly over, not sure when I'll get another go at the Brundall bream, cos we're moving to Wayford in april!!!

Thanks for your replies and provoking some thoughts in my lil brain!!

[Timbo]

5 minutes ago, timh said:

does happen regularly on my local waters (trent)

Do you know I live about ten minutes walk from the Trent...and I've never fished it! 

[JennyMorgan]

I've long baited two areas, one goes off so swop to the other and so on, also fish just outside the feeding area for bigger fish. 

Thanks, TimH, thought provoking stuff.

[timh]

You're welcome Jenny.

Where do you live Timbo?

[Timbo]

I'm in Gainsborough, so not suitable for fishing really, but I've never even ventured upstream. A fishing buddy of mine kept threatening to take me to the Nottingham stretches before he moved to France, but the opportunity never arose.