Stalham To Paris

[EdwardCharlesMitchell]

Wondering if anyone reading this has ever sailed their boat from Great Yarmouth to Paris via the French waterways system? Switching from electric to diesel has made me wonder if this trip next year would be feasible. Or I guess Plan B would be to travel to the French river system by land transport - which sounds as if it could be horrifyingly unaffordable. Your thoughts and input would be very welcome.

[Vaughan]

 

If you want to enter the French canals, do not cross from Calais to Dover, as the pleasure harbour in Calais is closed in by a lock, which only opens at high tide.  This means the whole crossing must be planned around that and unless your boat is capable of at least 15 knots it is not practical, owing to the strong currents in the Channel.  It is better to come down to Ramsgate via Harwich and then enter France by Dunkirk or Ostend.  If you fancy a longer sea passage you can come down the French coast past Boulogne and then go in up the river Somme.  This is the route that most sea-going power boats prefer.  From there, as you can see, there are a large number of different routes to get to Paris!

Transport of a boat like yours by road is not a big problem and if you book well in advance they may be able to take you as a "return load" at a reduced price.  We always used Abbey Transport, who never dropped a boat and are very professional!  I suggest that by the time you have adapted and kitted out your boat for a sea passage, you may find road transport cheaper.

Craning into the water can be done at several places, known to the transport firm, especially at one of the big boatyards in Cergy Pontoise, just to the north west of Paris, on the junction of the Seine and the Oise.  This is where Mike Barnes recovered the wherry Ardea, after he had discovered her not far from there.

From Cergy there is a canal that takes you round the north of Paris (a bit like the Grand Union Canal) where you join the Seine at the Bassin de l'Arsenal.  This is similar, but rather smaller, to St Katherine's Dock in London, and where short term moorings can be booked in advance.

I don't recommend cruising on the Seine through Paris, as this is a seriously commercial waterway with huge freight carrying barges and passenger steamers which make an enormous amount of wash.  I have done the trip myself, when on delivery and it is very hairy!  You are better to leave the Arsenal and cruise up the Marne through Chateau Thierry to Epernay, then up the canal to Reims and further on into Belgium.  There are several different canals to choose from and the scenery is lovely.  I find that the Marne is very much like the Thames, plus the fact that you are cruising through all the Champagne vineyards!

It is best if your boat is British Registered but you must plan ahead before entering France with a foreign vessel.  Have a word with HMRC and they will advise you.  Short visit tolls of 6 months are available from VNF (Voies Navigables de France) but you must be French registered if you stay longer than that.

French pleasure boats use white diesel, so make sure you keep the invoice for the last time you filled up with red diesel in UK, or you can be heavily fined if they do an inspection when you are cruising.

It's a great adventure, but it needs plenty of planning!

[Vaughan]

 

Something important I forgot : if you are going to drive a boat on French inland waterways you have to have one of these.  Mine is a bit tatty as it has been in the river a couple of times.

This is the inland waterways ticket, called the Permis Fluvial, which is different from the offshore pleasure boat ticket, the Permis Mer.  The RYA Yacht Masters is accepted as a Permis Mer, but not as a Permis Fluvial.  Nor is the Permis Mer accepted on inland waterways!

Nowadays it is just a paper exam which can be taken at several centres in France and can be booked in advance. All you have to do is answer questions from the Code VAGNON, which is the French river Highway Code.  The very best cruising maps of France are the Guides Vagnon.  It is all about buoyage, lights and shapes, channel markers and procedure in locks.  You just have to remember that buoyage in France is laid out for coming downstream, not "coming in from the sea" as in International COLREGS.  So a red buoy is a right hand marker!  Luckily it doesn't matter, as coming downstream the red buoy will be on the right and coming upstream it will still be on the left. Phew!  This is why the famous south bank of the Seine in Paris is called the Rive Gauche.

The exam is very easy as they are all 3 choice answers, where you tick a box.  So they will show you a picture of a right hand marker buoy with the question "What is this?"

(a).  A cow.

(b).  A telephone box.

(c).  A right hand marker buoy.

Boat handling has nothing whatever to do with it!  It is just a paper exam, where you have no need at all to set foot on a boat. 

But in France, you always have to have a little piece of paper with a stamp on it.

[EdwardCharlesMitchell]

Thank you so much for both of your incredibly helpful messages. Really appreciate the time you've taken to share all that information.

Putting a new diesel in the boat has possibly gone to my head! But I figure if Edward Seago could do it in Capricorn, then maybe Dawn Star could also!

In any event, your intel is invaluable, and I now have some great planning to do when the evenings start drawing in!

Many, many thanks,

Edward

[Happy]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

 

Something important I forgot : if you are going to drive a boat on French inland waterways you have to have one of these.  Mine is a bit tatty as it has been in the river a couple of times.

This is the inland waterways ticket, called the Permis Fluvial, which is different from the offshore pleasure boat ticket, the Permis Mer.  The RYA Yacht Masters is accepted as a Permis Mer, but not as a Permis Fluvial.  Nor is the Permis Mer accepted on inland waterways!

Nowadays it is just a paper exam which can be taken at several centres in France and can be booked in advance. All you have to do is answer questions from the Code VAGNON, which is the French river Highway Code.  The very best cruising maps of France are the Guides Vagnon.  It is all about buoyage, lights and shapes, channel markers and procedure in locks.  You just have to remember that buoyage in France is laid out for coming downstream, not "coming in from the sea" as in International COLREGS.  So a red buoy is a right hand marker!  Luckily it doesn't matter, as coming downstream the red buoy will be on the right and coming upstream it will still be on the left. Phew!  This is why the famous south bank of the Seine in Paris is called the Rive Gauche.

The exam is very easy as they are all 3 choice answers, where you tick a box.  So they will show you a picture of a right hand marker buoy with the question "What is this?"

(a).  A cow.

(b).  A telephone box.

(c).  A right hand marker buoy.

Boat handling has nothing whatever to do with it!  It is just a paper exam, where you have no need at all to set foot on a boat. 

But in France, you always have to have a little piece of paper with a stamp on it.

So, if you hire a boat in France you have to have one of these?

[Vaughan]

6 minutes ago, EdwardCharlesMitchell said:

Putting a new diesel in the boat has possibly gone to my head! But I figure if Edward Seago could do it in Capricorn, then maybe Dawn Star could also!

That is the spirit!

I remember Seago's boat, moored at Coldharbour Farm, where he lived, in Ludham.

I can offer a lot more information if you are serious in your endeavour, and will be very glad to do so!

[Vaughan]

5 minutes ago, Happy said:

So, if you hire a boat in France you have to have one of these?

No, that is what makes a joke of the whole process!

Hire boats in France are advertised "Sans Permis" which actually means that we give you a perfectly normal Broads type trial run when you arrive and then give you an official paper called a "Permis de Plaisance" which says that you have had our instruction and is valid for the dates of your boating holiday. Usually, we make it up into a suitably impressive thin card certificate, which you can take home as a souvenir of your holiday.

If you think about it, this means that boat hirers, after our instruction and a week's holiday of experience, are far more capable of handling a boat than almost every private boat owner in France!

[EdwardCharlesMitchell]

Oh wow! Would that have been his Capricorn that he took to Paris? Believe she was moored at Womack Water, or close by.

I'm re-reading Tideline at the moment for the nth time.

As I get a bit further along with planning, I'd be really grateful for your offer of some more information. MUCH appreciated.

[Vaughan]

20 minutes ago, EdwardCharlesMitchell said:

Believe she was moored at Womack Water, or close by.

Seago's house and garden came down onto Womack Water just where it opens out from Womack Dyke and directly opposite where my own boatyard used to be.

His boat was a bit too deep to enter Womack Dyke so he kept her at Coldharbour, just outside on the Thurne, near where the Hundred Steam used to connect the Ant with the Thurne.

[EdwardCharlesMitchell]

I'll have a good look for that next time I'm visiting WW.

What was your boatyard called? 

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, EdwardCharlesMitchell said:

What was your boatyard called? 

 

It was called Womack Cruisers, which used to be Womack Boats. We had to close it during the great recession of the early 80's and there are now private houses on the site. 

Seago's frontage is on the opposite bank, starting just to the left of where the photo was taken.

[EdwardCharlesMitchell]

I'll have a good look for that next time I'm visiting WW.

What was your boatyard called? 

Posted December 22, 2015

Some of you know me, from the long debate on Thorpe Island. I have a personal interest as my parents were Cmdr and Mrs Ashby of Hearts Cruisers and they brought me up on the old gunboat, Morning Flight. I went on to have my own little yard at Womack until selling in the awful recession of the early 80's. I ran a yard on the Thames for a few years and have just finished 20 years running hire bases on the French canals. I have now retired and we live near Carcassonne, close to the Canal du Midi and in the heart of the vineyards of the Minervois. And people ask why we don't come back to Norfolk!

Got it! You are the narrator of this gem!

 

[Vaughan]

[Warbs1]

Hi

My Parents have a few years ago.

They took there 42"Aquafibre Broads Cruiser from Lowestoft across the north sea to Ijmuiden in the Netherlands, then travelled through Holland, Belgium right down through France to the south coast and then back again. 

[Roy]

2 hours ago, Warbs1 said:

Hi

My Parents have a few years ago.

They took there 42"Aquafibre Broads Cruiser from Lowestoft across the north sea to Ijmuiden in the Netherlands, then travelled through Holland, Belgium right down through France to the south coast and then back again. 

Hi 

Your parents Aquafibre 42 is famous for its travels. 

 

[EdwardCharlesMitchell]

That's really interesting. 

That's a good old voyage. A really game undertaking. Thanks for mentioning. Great to know about examples of the trips possible.