Belt and Braces

[Wussername]

During my trips to Reedham I have noticed that on more than one occasion hire boats have been advised to secure the bow on the posts that are available and that both stern ropes should be tied onto the nearest suitable post. Both stern ropes on the same post.

There is no mention of using a spring.

Is the former good practice or should the use of springs be encouraged?

Indeed, are both belt and braces and neither really necessary.

.

[JawsOrca]

I guess it's probably the case that more lines the better.. Plus lines on hireboats are generally too short to do decent spring lines.. we always do a spring line as it stops the boat moving around... The chaps at reedham do like to keep the boats together, hence I suspect they ask you to tie close to the nearest post (although I normally ignore that and do a decent spring for the safety of the boat and my own piece of mind).

[Oddfellow]

Guidance is that ropes on hire boats should be at least three quarters of the length of the boat.

 

In terms of telling peolpe about spring lines though, I doubt wherher any yards have the opportunity to explain this during a handover.

[Viking23]

...

 In terms of telling people about spring lines though, I doubt whether any yards have the opportunity to explain this during a handover.

Spring lines... but it's now Autumn...lol

Telling folk about spring lines, when they haven't heard what a mooring warp is...

We use them all the time, mostly because of our 23 foot length, and the distance between mooring posts.

Bow line to a forward post on the bank, same rope comes back to the nearside stern cleat (Spring line), from this cleat to a post astern. Then a line from off side stern cleat to a post astern, this line keeps the stern close to the bank, and this set up works well for quite a tidal range, and stops the boat going forward and aft as the tide rises and falls.

It also stops movement from the under tow of passing boats.

We use this method even for short stops, eg when getting ready to transit Potter Heigham, main reason, is because the boat is light, it tends to move away from the bank quickly as you board etc.

What the hire industry needs is a guide that they send out once the booking is confirmed, with all these advanced features in, and a description of how to start, stop, turn, stern moor, tie up, and a few maps, with travel times, the odd phone number, pubs, shops, pumpouts etc, details of mooring etc.

The hirer and the crew could famiarise them selves with boat handling, and how and where to moor, then during the handover, they can learn how to set the fridge to keep the beer cool, where to charge the phone, and how to use the heating without having to moor with the engine running....! Surely from the hirers perspective, these are the important bits. As far as I can see, those travelling south from Stalham have forgotten where the brakes are, when they have to stop at Ludham bridge to allow other boats to come through the bridge...

What ever happened to the Boaters Guide that was sent out with the booking confirmation, I used to like reading that, it was part of the excitement of planning the holiday, it could also have the slack water times for Great Yarmouth, if it was published annually. Mind you, the rest of my family never looked at it.... it seemed to be part of my responsibility...lol

Richard

Edited October 29, 2014 by BroadScot
Timed out have altered spelling for you :-)

[Viking23]

NOTE to Moderators...

I tried to edit the above post as there was a typo... tue up... should be tie up, but I had an error.. I even rebooted my ipad...

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /forum/index.php on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

...Edit... this time I could edit this one... by adding this line...

[Baitrunner]

We always use spring lines especially on very tidal parts of the rivers. Reedham in particular as you have the fast tide run as well.

 

I have 4 cleats either side so have plenty of choice, but if you only the 2 then using the other stern cleat gives you added safety in case a cleat fails and as Vicking says keeps the stern in. If not just another mooring warp in the other direction will work.

 

I also always drop the mud weight - in everything fails then at least it will slow the boat down before it hits the bridge

[Baitrunner]

I know Richard's comments about training have come up on another post.

 

But maybe there should be a Broads based dumbed down version of the European CEVNI?

 

A short 2hr on boat session (instruction by an authorised person) showing and testing people how to handle the boats - Valid for ever, pay a small fee for the licence. Might impact the hire fleets though.

 

Very controversial, but as a bit of fun what would we call it? 

 

BAGCoC - Broads Authority General Certificate of Competence 

 

Or maybe a if run by the boat yards a Broads Industry General Certificate of Competence. Most men would queue up for this piece of paper     I could argue anyone without the licence would just be knob anyway. Hope that isn't moderated.

[Viking23]

...A short 2hr on boat session (instruction by an authorised person) showing and testing people how to handle the boats - Valid for ever, pay a small fee for the licence. Might impact the hire fleets though...

Great idea... Could be voluntary initially...

What's in it for the hire yards, or the hirers?

For those crew having met the minimum requirements of the test, could mean that the hire yard, waive their insurance wavers, or give better hire rates, hire yards could budget for fewer repairs.

Win Win all around.

Except that... as mentioned elsewhere, it is "alleged" that the money raised from collision damage waivers, goes into a pot, used for completing repairs on their own craft and other craft without going through insurance companies. Any profit, or indeed loss, overall is the responsibility of the hire company.

[JawsOrca]

I think it's a bad idea to have a mandatory cevni type thing for the broads. I think hiring a boat is now very expensive and I suspect this would put a lot of people off.  In all fairness most of the broads isn't too dangerous and the tuition from the yards, on the whole, appears to work because not many people die and not many boats sink.. touch wood.. I understand the need on the french canals which are huge and there's lots of commercial traffic..

 

However I can see a market for the norfolk yards having a "Learn to skipper" (similar to the learn to sail courses) considering how expensive RYA courses are and the cost of some of these posh new hireboats. Although it would need to be a lot less than the RYA courses and it would need to be voluntary...

[Baitrunner]

What's in it for everyone is less inexperienced hirers on the Broads.

 

Most responsible renters would welcome this - I know I would have. It means you have confidence, will cause less damage and ultimately could reduce the cost of boat hire if there is less damage to repair.

 

I know the "pot" of money used for repairs is a delicate subject, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper for hire companies to use their own skilled staff to attend repairs on heir own and other boats rather than going through the insurance companies. Ultimately it could reduce the cost of insurance waivers and even boat hire, or being cynical more money in the boat owners pockets - either way it puts more skills on the water - IMHO

 

In essence the licence fee would need to cover the staff and admin costs for the 2hr session. 

[Baitrunner]

Hi Alan,

IMHO anything voluntary means the" cant be bothered brigade" (the ones that need it) will never do it and the rest of us will - so not really much point in having it.

 

My thoughts were nothing like an RYA course, but a lot more informal, but makes people take the time and have some proof that at least they listened for a couple of hours.

 

I was thinking of £50 as a starter for ten - If you come back 5 times in your life that's a tenner a trip.

 

I felt I was quite experienced having had several boats on the sea and Broads, but still did a helmsmans course and sat the CEVNI (not that I will probably ever use it) as I wanted to make sure I knew as much as I thought. I didn't have to do this and a lot of people I speak to cant believe you don't need any experience/qualifications to get on a boat and whack it around.

 

Considering the cost to build and fit out a modern hire boat (which is as much if not more than one of the gin palaces) IMHO it makes sense to put something in place.

 

Here's another cheaper option - Computer based training - was all the rage. When someone hires a boat they have to go on-line and read through some information and go through a simple test - no pass or fail, but some stuff might sink in. A lot of the companies apparently send out information that no one reads - this gives them time to read it at leisure whlle waiting for the holiday to arrive and the boat companies can see if it has been done - whack the CDW up they don't do it.

[JawsOrca]

Hi Mark.. I don't think we have many visitors to the broads of the can't be bothered brigade these days.. I think the majority would welcome affordable training, although I as mentioned boating is expensive and I don't think its wise to add additional mandatory costs into what is an expensive activity.

 

As also mentioned above I think RYA training (the closest comparison) is excessive in my opinion £200/£300 a course and as you say a few hours for a quarter of this would be brilliant... I'm certainly all for that! 

 

I also agree that perhaps there should a home based pre-hire training (I remember being surprised when I first hired not to have much) but again I don't think the yards would get away with making that mandatory as it may put certain people off and therefore reduce income for the broads. (as I mentioned before I think the reduction of the hirefleet will eventually have a negative effect on the broads and make it far too expensive for anyone to use just like the Thames).  Perhaps Clive or Andy could advise

[Baitrunner]

Rock and a hard place really Alan.

 

Who knows how it would affect things? 

 

It would also have to be all the yards that did it or you might just find people migrating to the easiest one to hire from (but then they may be the most expensive)

 

I dont have the answers just an opinion and suspect nothing will change.

 

Mind you who expected the BSS to kick in - although again it makes sense and most sensible boat owners would have been OK without being forced to comply - and the biggest killer is still not a part of the certificate - CO2 poisoning and requiring a working detector on board - madness (IMHO). And no compulsory automatic fire suppression in the engine bay (probably more beneficial to inboard petrol boats).

 

Coor this has turned into a different topic - Sorry Wussername.   

[RumPunch]

You'd need different catergories of training / test - one size won't fit all. Total sail, auxillary yacht, power........