oldgregg

Some went to Haines straight away, some were bought by Richardson's and some were bought by Barnes. In reality I think only the tooling for the production /charter stuff went to Brundall. But yeah, a lot of stuff was cut up, some very recently.

That's the one.

That's what I'd expect it to be based on.

Rip Martins (Martins Plastics), John Linford, Vic Bell (Bell Boats) and 'Bobby' Richardson were also involved early on although it was a much-reduced consortium within a few years, for various reasons. I think @Stationerystill will have pretty good insight here. I can't remember which of the guys was sadly involved in the plane crash. The Skipper is 30 feet, so not directly the 35 hull.

And that's why brokers get confused / use a bit of artistic license with their descriptions... The relationship between Broom and Aquafibre and the way that mouldings were sold separately through the sister company (who in reality laid everything up until ten years ago) is a bit unusual so unless you're familiar with the Broads it's probably an odd one to get your head around. Given the confusion, it's therefore quite easy for a broker to list something as a Broom and not be challenged on it. And while we're challenging it, it is difficult for us to prove definitively because of the changes at Broom over the last nine years.

It was those that made me think it really doesn't feel like a Broom fitout... They could have been added later of course, but Broom would have added a proper fiddle so there'd be no need.

That's the AF Crystal 37. Although actually that one isn't as such - It was an old hull with the superstructure later adapted to fit it by the use of a very thick deck joint 'adapter' piece that sets them apart. Woods rebuilt them around 1998. A standard one looks like this (and yes the port and starboard sides of the flybridge look different, but I couldn't find a pic with them both the same way round). The Ocean 37 and later the Crown mouldings were also available through Aquafibre, with Brinks Prelude being the only Ocean 37's in hire I can think of. I would say that the Ocean 37 in the first of your two pictures has more freeboard than the Crystal or the DIY thing. There's an extra section of hull above that rubbing strake - the green bit with the engine vents - so I guess the Crystal uses a cut down version of the hull for inland waterway use in order to keep the air draft sensible (and because they're designed for single engines so need less height). From the looks of it, the boat for sale is based on the hull used by the Crystal 37 and the snappily-entitled 'AF 37 Sedan G' sedan version.

I think the identity of the boat has already been established, Smitch? There are some very knowledgable people on our network, and Dan knows an enormous amount about the hirefleets on various waterways and the movements of boats between yards and waterways over the years. Given that in the picture the boat has a bluebird on it, that would be a Hoseasons brochure.

BA is a centre-cockpit boat though and it's easy to dart onto the side deck... Come out on Thunder and I'll show you the issue! Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

Yeah it's a thing on any boat, but we're talking about a 43 footer so doing a trip round the deck to get to the other side does take a bit longer! Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

I don't doubt it's possible.... Sensible is another matter. Imagine this scenario: You're going down the river and one of those ropes slips off the deck. How quickly are you going to be able to get from the upper helm to the port side deck to fish that out before it goes round the prop? Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

The AF37 Sedan doesn't really need a thruster, it's a great hull that handles very well. Would be awesome with a thruster though, obviously. What is not so good about the sedan is the visibility from the helm position. You sit too far from the screens which are too shallow, and the moulding for the back end of the lower cabins makes it worse as they intrude too much into the space. I think the real problem is that the hull wasn't designed for the sedan so they've had to make sure the superstructure wasn't too tall to make it unusable on the Broads. When manouvering, you find that you have to poke your head out of the side windows or through the roof hatch, neither of which are particularly well positioned. Having hired one of these, and used the smaller Bounty 34 Sedan (the Traveller, to give its proper name) several times I would say that the smaller boat is infinitely better. I think that's borne out by the fact that when Ricko's had Princess (AF37 Sedan) they didn't let all that well and both have been sold, whereas the Melody (Bounty Traveller) are one of their most popular boats and are forever out on hire. And I think Princess was actually slightly cheaper as well. The boats from West Highland Sailing have had a hard life. Remember that they were on the Caledonian Canal since the 90's, and most of them will have been on the rocks at some point. You only have to look at the Loch Ness lifeboat's YouTube channel to see how many of the WHS boats were run aground, mainly because they never had enough power to get you out of trouble. Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

I thought that as well. At that time, Brooms were very much a Perkins shop in much the same way that they now fit Volvo (rebadged Perkins for the smaller engines) pretty much as default.

Do you have a picture of her? That'd help people figure out what she is. Harmony 2 sounds like her name from when in hire. I suspect the 'Swallow' is the old Hoseasons bluebird? Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

I'm not saying it isn't a Broom fitout, but it does seem pretty odd. If you were getting a yard who were never cheap to build it then why would you not just have a GRP superstructure? To get them to draw up, project manage and construct a bespoke superstucture in ply would surely have ended up costing as much anyway. It doesn't feel like a Broom interior to me, although it has clearly been done to a reasonable standard. The windows and the overall design really don't look like normal 'Broom' either though. A real Broom fitout (Aquafibre or production) should have one of these near to the interior helm position.

Yeah I think they're perfectly correct in their stance. I've seen an Aquafibre Pearl 38 on the Broads to which the owner has added 'Broom 38' badges because Broom fitted it out. It's a Broom fitout, but that boat will never be a 'Broom 38' because it's not a production model. There is a Broom 38, and that's something different entirely.

Yes they could buy all or part of the mouldings. DIY was a thing back then. No! If it was BUILT by Broom as a production model it's a Broom, otherwise it's an Aquafibre. Even technically if it was a non-production model built by Broom it's an Aquafibre - ie if it were a Crystal 37 built by Broom (I don't think they built any of that design, but you get what I mean).

There really is no 'true blood' argument to have. Aquafibre was Broom's sister company and they used to lay up all of the mouldings. There were a set available for anyone to buy, and once a Broom model had finished its production run (and in some cases during) those mouldings were also made available for any yard to buy as a set of mouldings - or indeed just a hull. If it wasn't fitted out by Broom, it's not a Broom. It's that simple.

Thunder is a great boat, but not necessarily the easiest if you'll be single-handed - At 43 feet she can often seem to be just that bit too big to fit into the gaps people leave at popular mooring spots. Also, from the interior helm the visibility of the stern is best described as 'quite limited'. The size is also such that really you do want one person at the helm and then at least one person on deck (ideally at least two). If you're planning on boating more as a party of two or three then she's a different proposition, and doesn't feel cramped with a larger party aboard. With a group of five mates, we've been able to use her comfortably with no-one making beds up each night as she has five separate beds (plus the saloon). There is plenty of space in the saloon and also upstairs, because of the large flat area on the aft cabin roof giving you more room. Silver Cloud, Goosander or one of the Pearls (Moonlight Shadow / Evening Shadow) may be a good fit if you're mostly likely to be out on your own.

What I would say is that be very aware that this boat may well have a wooden superstructure, and if that's the case then you're looking at wooden boat levels of maintenance on the exterior. An all-fibreglass boat will cost you more, but will just need a good wash at the start of the season and ideally a polish and to then be kept clean and sensibly looked after. Any wooden boat really wants to be kept in a wet shed, and that will cost you more every year than just a regular mooring. You can of course put a cover on it, but then you've got to keep that maintained and keep taking the thing back on and off every time.

I think Vaughan may have just spat his tea out at that one... I'm no marine surveyor. I have a reasonable knowledge of Broads boats but not in terms of the technical detail you'd need to inform a purchase.

By very definition, she can't be a Broom unless they built her. If the builder was sold a full or partial set of mouldings for fitting out, then it's an Aquafibre. A lot of stuff gets listed by brokers as 'Broom' because a) they don't know any better and b) it sounds good. The hull does look like it could be Aquafibre, certainly, and I'd agree that the superstructure looks to be DIY so it'd need to be very carefully surveyed.

They are. Haines reworked Ferry's existing mouldings to improve the aesthetics and as part of the works they produced one complete boat. Ferry have since completed further boats themselves from those mould tools, some of which have a similar layout and finish to the one Haines produced. I don't know who actually laid up the sets of mouldings, but the fitout was certainly in-house. The Haines-built boat has stayed at Ferry, I believe.

More fleets down south can only be a good thing. I know many people prefer the southern rivers (I'm one of those people) and throughout the year there are always plenty of Northern hire boats making the trip. I think that probably many experienced boaters mainly hire from the North because the bigger yards have such a choice of boats and make it so much more affordable, and if they're out for a week or more then the two 'travel' days is no major hardship and potentially all part of the fun. Certainly when I was out last year for Whitsun half term, pretty much all of Ricko's available boats were out and there was a big convoy of boats coming down to WRC and Oulton Broad. I think the demand is there, but how it is marketed, positioned and priced is where the challenge lies.

I have a vogue idea where the moulds may be coming from...