Increased fuel consumption

[Guest]

Well curiously the problem seems to have cleared. As I pulled up at the dealership yesterday the trip was showing 449 miles and the fuel light had only just that minute come on. Although that's slightly below average it is near enough as to be not worth bothering about (especially given the petrol station I previously filled up at was sloping the wrong way so I would have been able to get less in the tank). So it didn't go into the workshop in the end. I'll keep monitoring it of course (well I always did, hence I noticed the issue in the first place). It seems that whatever the problem was only manifested itself when running on the motorway at approx 70mph - normally that is when it is at its most efficient. Obviously we use more fuel going backwards and forwards from work because of the nature of the journey but it seems fuel consumption doing that remains entirely unchanged. Weird.

[thirdmate]

Maybe this should be a new thread but experiences in LPG might make interesting reading.

Certainly doesn't help my fuel consumption but hey at 49p litre I am now getting the monetary equivilant of 34 to the gallon.

Not sure what would happen if you tried for a BSS cert with an LPG fuelled boat ???

[Brian]

Tell us about the LPG 3rd MAte as 10mpg is starting to hit me a bit

[Guest]

Tell us about the LPG 3rd MAte as 10mpg is starting to hit me a bit

You do know that the carpet behind the throttle pedal isn't there for you to rest your foot against it in comfort, does you?

[senator]

As far as I can tell, LPG conversions for boats and the BSS don't go together.

sure others can let you know if I am wrong but while LPG is allowable as a fuel, dual fuel is not, as LPG conversions tend to use petrol as well due to the lack of LPG availability that puts most conversions out.

Given that you can start the engine on LPG,(fork lifts do) then a corgi man with the relevent cetificate for engine conversions must verify the installation, these are apparently very few and far between.

LPG is not available on tap on the broads and as the conversion would generally be to petrol engines, of which the majority are fairly high powered on sports boats useing a bit more juice, and LPG is at least 10% less efficient than petrol then you better have a very big gas storage locker which must also be fire rated and vented over board and not have any connections within the engine bay.

Shame because as far as I can see it would be a fair bit cheaper and as most boats have LPG on board for cooking, what is the difference?

Obiously if you want to go out into the deep stuff you can do what the hell you like but it still hasn't caught on, partly through lack of availability, partly through safety fears but mostly because red diesel was so cheap, will be a major effort now though to get calor to put all the tanks back in.

Ian

[thirdmate]

Unfortunately Ian is spot on with his observations.

My beast cost around £1400 to convert and cost return was acheived within 14 months, since then it's been bonus all the way.

I can appreciate that cost savings would take a lot longer is more frugal motors, but it's the only way I could afford to run my little truck.

You can of course have your own LPG tank installed at home and the price drops to around 28p litre !!!! (Downside, tank install £££'ss)

Interestingly my insurer reduced my premium on production of pressure certs for tank and plumbing. Conversions and LPG supplies growing a lot at the moment. Also seem to remember emissions are are a bit lower

[Guest]

my dad has a seat alhambra 7 seater 1.8 petrol turbo. now he would not want an LPG tank if it obstructed the room in the back in he took out the seats or not. Ive hear that a tank can be put in the spare wheel arch but then what happens if you get a flat.

how much would a tank cost and how long before he would start to reap the rewards.

sorry for the babbling but this is a realy good thread with miles of info

[Brian]

3rd mate, is there a comparison for MPG once converted to LPG ?

Taking the cost of LPG per litre then working out a cost to Miles per gallon ? mm sounds a bit daft now

Equivalent too... i think im looking for. ... So if LPG is 1/3 of the cost of petrol if a Rangie did 10mpg it would be the equivalent of 30 mpg ?

or does running on LPG make the mpg less efficient ?

The only thing I'm concerned of is the Price Hikes, i think Simon has mentioned it before with regards to Diesel, How cheap was that ? !!! compared with petrol 10 years ago.

Everyone bought Diesel cars, and now look, Diesel is more expensive than petrol.

The Government will TAX LPG through the roof

[thirdmate]

Hopefully 2 answers for the price of one

Jonny

my dad has a seat alhambra 7 seater 1.8 petrol turbo. now he would not want an LPG tank if it obstructed the room in the back in he took out the seats or not. Ive hear that a tank can be put in the spare wheel arch but then what happens if you get a flat.

how much would a tank cost and how long before he would start to reap the rewards.

sorry for the babbling but this is a realy good thread with miles of info

Tank positoning: There are a number of options, 1 is in the spare wheel well (Like me) 95 litre capacity and I carry a can of sealer/Inflator in case of punctures, and yes I have used it and it worked !!!

Other types and positions of tanks are available. You can get loads of useful info from http://www.rpiv8.com (based just outside Norwich)

Cost benefits depend on your cars current MPG and how much mileage you do a year.

Brian

i must admit I take a rather simplistic view of my cost savings, I get approx 17mpg running on Petrol @ £5.00 per gallon, LPG is a little less efficient so I get around 15MPG but @ £2.50 per gallon.

My performance on LPG when I first had it converted was impacted but a revised EMS chip fixed that problem. The cost of re-chipping was a tad ££ but due to the number of miles I do each year it was worth the extra.

I beleive the Gov have given an undertaking not to hike LPG prices for the next 5 years, but as you say the furure may tell a different story.

Already oil prices have affected LPG, last year I was paying 42p litre filled up yesterday in Yarmouth and it was 52p. Norwich prices seem to avg 46p litre.

A friend of mine is going to get some info on rules and regs/costs on converting 4 pot marinised petrol engines (Carb or Inj) Will post it up when I get it.

Might make for an interesting discussion, 17KG propane bottles strapped sideways on the decks !!!!

[Antares_9]

http://www.autogasmarine.com/ :-D :-D

[Guest]

very interesting Dave but only on petrol engines

[Guest]

Better for budgets. Better for the environment. Whether you pit it against petrol or diesel, Autogas is the clear winner.

According to research in Europe, LPG vehicles emit 20% LESS carbon dioxide than their petrol counterparts. Carbon dioxide, nitric oxides and particulates are key contributors to problems like poor air quality and global warming.

The same investigation discovered that LPG is much cleaner than diesel when it comes to Nitric Oxides - it would, in fact, take around 20 LPG cars to produce as much NOx as is pumped out by just one diesel-powered car.

What's more, diesel vehicles give off far more fine particluates - around 120 times as many as an LPG powered vehicle.

Even aside from the emission of dangerous gases, LPG has many other benefits over the more traditional fuels.

* Noise from Autogas-powered engines is quieter than from diesel engines, keeping sound pollution to a minimum.

* Should a fuel spill occur, LPG will evaporate quickly - so there is no risk of ground or water contamination. The same cannot be said about petrol and diesel.

* LPG can be found naturally, as a by-product of the gas extraction process. Around 60% of the UK's LPG is found in this manner.

[Stranger]

as to the LPG USE A FORKLIFT GAS BOTTLE holds 19kg or 11kg depending on size gas conversion kits from~

http://www.kompass.co.uk/directory/comp ... 263965.htm

http://www.hkl-gaspower.co.uk/

as to the original problem of increased fuel consumption did you have new tyres fitted on the service or did the dealer ajust the tyre pressures sounds daft but it can make a difference

[Guest]

I'd even forgotten this thread was here. The problem never went away - I changed the plugs and air filter in case they'd fitted duds, though I couldn't find anything wrong with either on examination. So I guess I'm going to have to get it plugged in to a diagnostic system to see if the management system is up to no good, though there certainly aren't any warning lights. If they still can't find anything then I'll replace the vehicle when we come back from our hols in May. Fuel light used to come on around 460 miles, now it's coming on about 380 miles instead. With prices as they are it isn't helpful, but what pees me off more is the fact that I know it should be better. If we'd bought it like this and didn't know any different then I don't think I'd care, but we know the car is performing well short of what it should be doing.

So before we bin a 3.2 year old car with 30,000 miles on the clock if anyone else has any suggestions then I'm listening.

[Antares_9]

I think the only solution is to have it plugged into an “Asgard core†for diagnosis Simon.

[Palmtree]

Simon,

You talked about loads for filters being changed, other than the engine did the gearbox and brake fluid get changed?

Did your regular travel route change before the service. Could the service might have made you check the fuel consumption and assumed the service was the change point ?

Ian

[Guest]

David, I believe I know of the location of an Asgard power core

Ian, we always reset the trip on every refill - it's something I've been doing for over 10 years now, it is completely ingrained in me to do so. So every single tank of fuel that goes through our cars is measured and has been since way back. This is also the second identical Mondeo we've owned and the performance between the two cars was near enough identical too, though I think the previous one was very slightly quicker. You'd be surprised at how consistent they are - typically around 450 miles until the fuel light (which has 50 miles to go) with an even mix of town and country driving, including journeys to work, trips to Tesco etc. On the open road (trips to Scotland etc) this rises to around 520-530 miles before the fuel light. The fuel computer typically gives a real time reading of 48-49mpg, usually over an average trip to Scotland / Kent you'll see an average of about 45mpg. Not only do our real world readings underline a problem, as we are now getting 380-390 miles before the fuel light, rising to about 440 miles on the open road, but the fuel computer now gives real time figures of around 41mpg and around 37-38mpg average on the open road - so even that agrees with us. The original garage (a Ford dealership!) simply weren't interested.... it was just due to cold weather / our misunderstanding / something had changed I hadn't thought of etc. But I still work in the same place, drive the same route to work, drive in the same style and the car is still as consistent in its fuel usage as it always has been - it just uses consistently more! Nothing else has changed but there is a very different performance pre and post service.

As for what was changed, it was a standard third annual service - didn't include much really. Oil, plugs, air filter (don't know about fuel filter), I have a feeling brake fluid may have been done I can't be sure. I do have a fairly comprehensive service list from the garage which I can look up when I get home though.

I have to say I rue the day I went to that garage though. Not only has their service buggered up a good car but they "lost" the engine cover. As with most, if not all, modern vehicles the engine had a fancy plastic cover over the top of the rocker cover, hiding all the HT leads etc. Or at it did when it went into the garage. It was several weeks before we lifted the bonnet to refill the washers and I was stunned to see it was missing. Susan was there as well and reacted with equal surprise. When I took it back to the garage they denied it had ever had one saying the 04/05 Mondeos didn't have them fitted. And they examined the engine saying there was no way one could have been attached. I have to say I couldn't see a means to attach one either, but I'd not been imagining the damn thing for the last 3 years! They agreed to order one, though they didn't think it would fit, and they wanted to charge £75 for it (not bloody likely!). My attitude was they lost it, they pay for it, but they said I had no proof it ever existed and refused to budge. They also agreed to take the car back in to examine the fuel issue but would charge since it couldn't possibly have resulted from anything they did! Bunch of barstewards the lot of them.

[Palmtree]

I wonder what change in engine warm up time the loss of the insulated cover might have had.

Ian

[Guest]

I'm not aware of any real change, to be honest Ian. It, and its predecessor, have always been up to temperature very quickly. We also have a Vauxhall Vectra and that takes 3-5 times the amount of time to get up to temperature. In the summer time the Mondeo is probably up to temperature in about 2 mins from pulling off the driveway.