Lesson in complacency, Batteries they're safe or are they?

[MBA Marine]

A lesson in life and complacency,

Saturday afternoon I go to a boat a the first thing I noticed was that the 24v battery bank was being charged really hard, batteries boiling inside and gassing very heavily, I had turned the chaps charger down low, this charger being a garage style charger with Boost/Starter function. (mistake no.1, off was the correct step to take).

 

My task was to remove the starter motor, I note the battery isolator had previously given up and bypassed with the cables on the same side of the switch, when removing the starter cables to make them safe (hahaha) I must have produced a ickle spark (remember that charger that was still on! Doh!!) , if im honest I cant remember that part to well, but suddenly a bang like a gunshot and part of the battery was gone and I had light battery acid shower (good day to wear shorts and tee shirt).

 

I'm a very very lucky boy as I was leaning over that battery. The pic of my inner elbow and temporary loss of hearing in right ear were the extent of the injuries. But not to be defeated after a good wash I did go back in and remove the starter before going and tending to the arm! The 2nd and 3rd pic's are the batteries I was leaning over. A couple of days on the ear feels like it has a bit off cotton wool in it but im sure this will pass, more importantly I'm alive, in good humor and i'm still pretty.

 

So for them are not aware Hydrogen is very flammable and this the gas that batteries (vented) give off when charging, dont be an idiot (like me) vent the space and turn stuff off before you play! Oh and dont Boil the f**k out of your batteries with charger made for garage use on the high setting for god knows how long! Rant over.

 

From behind the keyboard, many are very quick to point out peoples mistakes, and quicker to use a search engine to give a textbook perfect solution to any problem, I was complacent and was given a wake up call, I'm not afraid to admit that, I replaced the battery today and it took me few moments to tell myself that I wanted to go back in that engine room.  Those who knew let this be a reminder, those who did not know let it be a lesson learned.

 

[ExUserGone]

When hydrogen goes bang it's a very sharp bang too so I don't envy your ears, a couple of the blokes I work with filled a small plastic pork pie tube full of hydrogen and oxygen and their ears were ringing for ages, we later went on to fill an inflatable sheep (don't ask, it was bloody funny though) and thought the windows were coming in when we ignited it.(it was Christmas eve and we are easily bored....)

2 litre coke bottles go all the way into the timber yard opposite.

The gas used was from nothing more than tap water and about 10A @ 12V for a few hours in a home made electrolysis unit.

Batteries and sparks are always a bad mix so thanks for the reminder.

[650xs]

ohhhh dear welcome to the club orf blow up by batt ......

 

 

been there sevral time s it not nice ,..........................

 

 

the club is very elite ....mark ................

 

 

come in join in ................

 

 

batts go bang ...................

[Guest]

True enough, many people don't seem to have any idea of how much energy is stored in car and boat batteries.

 

Never heard of anyone leaving a booster/starter charger on a boat battery bank.

[MBA Marine]

ohhhh dear welcome to the club orf blow up by batt ......

 

 

been there sevral time s it not nice ,..........................

 

 

the club is very elite ....mark ................

 

 

come in join in ................

 

 

batts go bang ...................

Almost 7 years self employed and this is the first time and to be honest I hope its the last, thank you for the club membership I feel honored.   

[Oddfellow]

Jesus, Mark. Dangerous stuff and it could have been so much worse.

 

Everybody shoud take note of this and learn from other people's mistakes.

 

Deep Cycle batteries should not be charged with "garage" chargers and definately not boiled over! They most definately should NEVER be charged in situe with these kinds of chargers.

 

Mark seems to have got off quite lightly here. A battery explosion due to people's ignorance over how to remain safe on a boat could have resulted in extensive injury and damage. Unless you have a propper marine battery charger, always remove the batteries before charging and always monitor their condition during the charge process.

 

In situations like this, it would be reasonable to even assume that there might have been a gas leak that had been stopped off with a rag..... (well, given the bypassing of the safety isolator switch).

[kfurbank]

Mark,

 

Bet that's a lesson you won't forget in a hurry. Glad you're ok.

 

Does beg the question though, BSS? On my boat the batteries are in proper battery boxes with the lids strapped on. I guess the minimum is a battery box and some protection over the terminals, which I cannot see in your pictures. That's without taking into consideration the bypassed isolator.

 

What worries me about this particular boat is that the isolators are not just for the use of the person who owns the boat and knows how much he has bodged. Their location should be clearly marked so that anyone new to that boat, visiting or working on the boat can isolate the battery in an emergency. What if those batteries were feeding an invertor and someone was getting an electric shock?

[mbird]

Blimey Mark, that is quite a wake-up call. To be honest, I doubt very much that any of us really give hydrogen build up much of a thought! Glad to hear you are not badly hurt and managed not to get the acid in your eyes!

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Mark (mbird)

If you do not have a battery box fan I suggest that you think about installing one.

On Ranworth Breeze the rule is put the battery box fan on before starting the engine, this is then run whilst we are in motion.

Batteries and charging of them has always been a problem in any confined area.

Hi Mark, glad that you are ok, it must have been a shock.

Regards

Alan

[Guest]

Safe practice on battery installation and ventilation is straightforward and clearly explained in the relevant section of the BSS, and any competent  examiner would soon fail any boat that didn't meet minimum safety standards.

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/164496/bss%20guide%20chap3.pdf

 

My  batteries are in the (petrol) engine bay in non-sealed purpose designed plastic battery boxes.

 

The more stringent ventilation requirements for petrol power serve a useful double purpose for the batteries in the same space, with good through-flow ventilation and bilge blowers etc..

 

The primary hazard with Mark's unhappy experience was undoubtedly  the extreme charging rate in-situ, and without supervision or monitoring.

 

I've been tinkering with electric bikes with lithium polymer and lithium iron battery technology, and that's even more explosive if not treated with respect. That new technology uses "BMS" (battery management systems), to monitor voltage levels for each cell when charging.  Old fashioned wet cell batteries have no such sophistication.

[kfurbank]

Strowager,

 

Which clearly with a bypassed battery isolator this boat wouldn't pass if it was put through a BSS today. A BSS test is only as good as the day it passes, however there is a requirement to keep the boat maintained and in the same condition as when it passed the BSS. I'm also fairly certain that it is a requirement to provide some cover or protection to the batteries to avoid accidental shorting of the battery terminals. Whilst it doesn't necessarily need to be a proper battery box, there should be some cover, which in this case may have protected Mark a little from his unfortunate shower. Makes you wonder at times whether the BSS should be more frequent than every four years.

[Guest]

Strowager,

 

Which clearly with a bypassed battery isolator this boat wouldn't pass if it was put through a BSS today. A BSS test is only as good as the day it passes, however there is a requirement to keep the boat maintained and in the same condition as when it passed the BSS. I'm also fairly certain that it is a requirement to provide some cover or protection to the batteries to avoid accidental shorting of the battery terminals. Whilst it doesn't necessarily need to be a proper battery box, there should be some cover, which in this case may have protected Mark a little from his unfortunate shower. Makes you wonder at times whether the BSS should be more frequent than every four years.

 

Quite true, the test is only a snapshot in time.

 

Anyone who has too great an opinion of their skill level can make very dangerous alterations or additions.

 

Perish the thought that the BSS test should be more frequent though, £100 is expensive enough every 4 years, for the vast majority of responsible owners that don't undermine their boat's safety.

[kfurbank]

Difficult one because whenever I do an upgrade to the boat I normally know, or check if it would still be likely to pass the BSS. I keep electronic copies of the BSS on my laptop and desk top PCs. However the type of questions you see asked on this and other forums about upgrades people are planning, it does make you wonder at times whether they should be contemplating doing the work themselves. That's without the ones who haven't sought advice from the forums first.

[MBA Marine]

Mark,

 

Bet that's a lesson you won't forget in a hurry. Glad you're ok.

 

Does beg the question though, BSS? On my boat the batteries are in proper battery boxes with the lids strapped on. I guess the minimum is a battery box and some protection over the terminals, which I cannot see in your pictures. That's without taking into consideration the bypassed isolator.

 

What worries me about this particular boat is that the isolators are not just for the use of the person who owns the boat and knows how much he has bodged. Their location should be clearly marked so that anyone new to that boat, visiting or working on the boat can isolate the battery in an emergency. What if those batteries were feeding an invertor and someone was getting an electric shock?

Umm where to start, you would not get a shock from the 240v if powered by an inverter, it would just shut down, or maybe blow its internal fusing. regardless of the isolator working or bypassed, the charger was connected to batteries with croc clips and my not having turned off only turning down would always make a little spark if those croc clips were moved, terminal covers would have made diddly squats difference I did not arch across terminals, the box the bats live in does have a wooden lid and i'm grateful it was not fitted as that would have held more gas in the one localized space and had I sparked that well my head was over those batteries!

The only critique I can find about BSS here is that it is not annual like a car MOT as 4 years is a long time for bodge it and scarpers to mess things up! 

[kfurbank]

Quote "Umm where to start, you would not get a shock from the 240v if powered by an inverter, it would just shut down, or maybe blow its internal fusing."

 

Mark sorry to have to do this, BUT THIS IS SIMPLY WRONG AND DANGEROUSLY MISLEADING. Sorry to shout but it needs saying. If an invertor is isolated from a true earth then the output from an invertor if shorted via you to earth is unlikely to prove fatal, HOWEVER if you find yourself connected across the positive and negative 240V output from an invertor, it is going to hurt and can prove fatal. A 3000 watt invertor will quite happily supply 3000 watts to you if you manage to connect yourself across the live and neutral and you will provide enough resistance to not trip it or cause a fuse to blow.

 

Most boat invertor setups act like an isolated power supply and therefore you are unlikely to get a fatal shock should you connect yourself from positive to a true earth, however any power supply isolated or not will give you a shock if you mange to connect yourself across the positive and neutral. Consider the following, a PP3 battery is an isolated power supply. Put your tongue across the terminals and see if you feel the current flow? I guarantee you will An invertor still has the potential to kill.

 

For the above and many other reasons battery isolators are mandatory for the BSS and should never under any reason be bypassed IMHO.

[MBA Marine]

Quote "Umm where to start, you would not get a shock from the 240v if powered by an inverter, it would just shut down, or maybe blow its internal fusing."

 

Mark sorry to have to do this, BUT THIS IS SIMPLY WRONG AND DANGEROUSLY MISLEADING. Sorry to shout but it needs saying. If an invertor is isolated from a true earth then the output from an invertor if shorted via you to earth is unlikely to prove fatal, HOWEVER if you find yourself connected across the positive and negative 240V output from an invertor, it is going to hurt and can prove fatal. A 3000 watt invertor will quite happily supply 3000 watts to you if you manage to connect yourself across the live and neutral and you will provide enough resistance to not trip it or cause a fuse to blow.

 

Most boat invertor setups act like an isolated power supply and therefore you are unlikely to get a fatal shock should you connect yourself from positive to a true earth, however any power supply isolated or not will give you a shock if you mange to connect yourself across the positive and neutral. Consider the following, a PP3 battery is an isolated power supply. Put your tongue across the terminals and see if you feel the current flow? I guarantee you will An invertor still has the potential to kill.

 

For the above and many other reasons battery isolators are mandatory for the BSS and should never under any reason be bypassed IMHO.

sorry are suggesting that someone could find themselves  across positive and neg on the inverter 240v side or in layman's terms jabbing a metal spike into the two lower holes of our uk sockets (not before stuffing a screwdriver in the top earth one to open the lower) and they will get a shock? ok good because aint that obvious? but that has little to do with this original post and to stay on topic if the client had been holding a power drill powered by a inverter of the same battery bank when I had my whoopsy I am very certain his drill would have done nothing more than stop.  

[DaylightGate]

From my many years of experience working with the sparking energy I have found that isolated power supplies can be very unpredictable.

Lets all learn from MBA's experience and be glad that he survived to tell the tale. 

[Guest]

sorry are suggesting that someone could find themselves  across positive and neg on the inverter 240v side or in layman's terms jabbing a metal spike into the two lower holes of our uk sockets (not before stuffing a screwdriver in the top earth one to open the lower) and they will get a shock? ok good because aint that obvious? but that has little to do with this original post and to stay on topic if the client had been holding a power drill powered by a inverter of the same battery bank when I had my whoopsy I am very certain his drill would have done nothing more than stop.  

 

Kfurbank's point is a very important one, that any 240v "isolated" power supply can still very easily kill if any part of the human  body comes into contact with the live and neutral output.

 

There are unlimited ways that could occur besides the unlikely one of someone intentionally plugging themselves into an outlet socket.

 

Frayed leads to appliances, damp hand-held appliances, faulty metal parts like switches, the possibilities are numerous.  When that happens, the only safety factor is the current limiting fuse or mcb in the consumer unit.

 

On a a separate note, it's worrying to see how much faith people now have in home based ELCB's (earth leakage circuit breakers).  They will indeed instantly trip the power off whenever  microamps fail to return via the neutral leg if they "leak to earth", but humasn can still get the full amperage through their body if they are in contact with live and neutral and not the earth, which can easily occur in many situations.

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Strowager,

 

In the case of domestic or single phase commercial supplies in most modern installations the neutral is bonded to earth on the incoming supply.

 

Regards

Alan

[kfurbank]

Thank you Strowager, as he says there are many ways to get an electric shock and if you see someone in that situation the FIRST thing you should do is isolate the electricity supply, never attempt to pull them away or you may end up in the same situation. It would be reasonable to expect that the battery isolator (which should be clearly marked and in an easily accessible position) would be a good way of cutting the invertor supply and hence the 240V.  

 

The statement about not being able to get a shock from 240V if powered by an invertor may lead to others being less careful with invertors on boats, when they have as much potential to kill as any other 240V supply.

 

Personally I've always found it a strange anomaly that building regulations prohibit me from altering my wiring at home unless I'm a suitably qualified electrician or have it checked by a suitable electrician, yet anyone can mess around with 240V on a boat. 240V is still even now not properly covered by the revised BSS IMHO. 

[kfurbank]

Alan,

 

Quote "In the case of domestic or single phase commercial supplies in most modern installations the neutral is bonded to earth on the incoming supply."

 

The above statement is indeed true, but still doesn't alter what Strowager is saying about ELCBs. The bonding takes place on the supply side, before the ELCB. If the ELCB measures 1amp passing through the positive and you manage to grab both the live and neutral whilst sitting on your sofa, or wooden laminate flooring then you are likely to pass 1amp and so will the neutral back through the ELCB. It will not detect a leakage to earth and will not trip or protect you. If you were in the kitchen and turned on a faulty kettle and managed to lean against the sink, or cooker or some other earthed piece of metal then you would pass some current from the positive to earth and the in balance sensed by the ELCB would indeed cause it to trip rather quickly. One of the reasons why ELCBs are so effective and recommended when using power tools or gardening tools outside where you are likely to be in direct contact with the earth. Less effective when you are not in direct contact with an earth.

[MBA Marine]

By using part of what I had said, is exactly how the media or politicians spin a story. But fine spin away pick up on only part of what I was saying and have your moment I cant be bothered.

[kfurbank]

Mark,

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. I didn't pick up on part of the story, I read the whole of the story and you made some very valid points. In fact I have made reference to your post and the points about batteries and complacency elsewhere because I thought it was a timely reminder and deserved as big an audience as possible. However when anyone makes a statement that could lead others into a false sense of security it is worth pointing out the real implications.

 

You raised very valid points on the method of charging and how anyone can become complacent at times. I'm glad you were lucky and I'm sure you have learnt from your experience. For me reading your post, I was also interested, from a safety point of view in how the isolator had been bypassed, the pictures showing the battery installation and how all that related to the BSS. I purchased my boat from a hire yard and it came with a BSS. The battery in the engine bay was mounted on a plywood base with a wooden lip around it to stop it sliding around. It had a wooden lid on top over the terminals and was strapped down. It wasn't pretty but it passed the BSS. Now however it is in a proper plastic battery box and strapped down. No part of the battery is exposed to accidental mechanical damage or shorting. IMHO an improvement over how it was even though both passed the BSS.

 

The picture is of a sister boat I took for a trial run. When I purchased mine the wooden lid was sitting square and strapped down to meet the BSS.

[MBA Marine]

The bypassed isolator would have failed its next inspection but I had nothing to do with any boat safety work the boat may have needed for its last inspection nor do I know which examiner did the test, positive leads rather than split either side of the switch were both on the same post.

 

Im sure you have improved your battery installation. I fit the plastic boxes for ease when its just one battery, but for a bank if the customer will pay for the extra time I like to construct a full ply box with lid that clips on, as I think it looks neater all painted up with batteries uniformed and not having excess cables going back and forth. Have to say that not since I stopped building oysters have I had dealings with fitting a battery box fan, I have vented boxes over board but not with fan assistance.   

 

For what its worth I have been to a boat that has come off hire fleet last season with a battery isolator bypassed the same way, I guess it was a quick fix/bodge when the contacts in the switch had broken down. Im not one to name and shame so boat name and yard will remain private but fear not lovers of Ricco, Clive it wasn't one of yours.

[MBA Marine]

Little update in the health front.

 

I keep waking in the morn with a headache, my heart rate is heavy and faster than normal, the ear seems ok maybe slightly muffled, but the headaches and racing heart are making it tough to force myself to keep going, this is why im typing at 9.30 not working!  common gotta get up!