Plumbing

[Ray]

Is there any reason not to use a domestic thermostatic shower mixer rather than one designated as marine? I have to go out and check the measurements and pipe sizes but a unit like this would save me a lot of beer tokens :)

It looks the same as the one I have to replace and will only be needed half a dozen times a year (I live near our boat!) Assuming the physical dimensions/fitting diameters work I imagine the water pump will have enough pressure.

[Ray]

Forgot to add the link...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chrome-Thermostatic-Bar-Mixer-Shower-Valve-Tap-Top-3-4-Outlet-For-Shower-Column/282845341728?hash=item41dae56820:g:TWAAAOSwZrhabxcQ

[BroadAmbition]

No reason whatsoever.  Ours onboard 'B.A' is a land lubbing house type domestic thermostatic shower mixer  affair.  Been working fine over 11 years now

Griff

[Ray]

Thank you Griff, one of the ' marine' ones was over £200!

[ExSurveyor]

Mine are all domestic type and never had a problem.

Just avoid the large orange shed and use a plumbers merchant as the quality tends to be better on fittings.

[dnks34]

Not a shower valve but when we first fitted a TMV to the calorifier (to stop us being scalded when the engine had been run) it played up quite a bit sometimes it would work sometimes it wouldnt, we tried a different one thinking it might be faulty but eventually we realised it was a pressure problem and after fitting an accumulator tank to stop the pump surging it behaved itself and worked as intended!

[BroadAmbition]

The thing is, if you don’t tell your land lubing domestic plumbing fittings they are to be employed in a Marine environment then they won’t know. Water is water after all no matter where it is stored / provided

Griff

[Ray]

It will be a complete surprise to them when I open the box and they see the river :)

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Not a shower valve but when we first fitted a TMV to the calorifier (to stop us being scalded when the engine had been run) it played up quite a bit sometimes it would work sometimes it wouldnt, we tried a different one thinking it might be faulty but eventually we realised it was a pressure problem and after fitting an accumulator tank to stop the pump surging it behaved itself and worked as intended!

For those that have never fitted an accumulator before it is important to ensure that the bladder pressure in the accumulator is matched to the pump pressure. In those that I have fitted the pressure of the bladder has been too high resulting in the accumulator not really working at all.

Signs that an accumulator is set correctly/working at all are: If you run a tap for a short while the pump does not always cut in, if you run a tap on a moderate flow the pump will cut in and out. 

[LondonRascal]

18 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

For those that have never fitted an accumulator before it is important to ensure that the bladder pressure in the accumulator is matched to the pump pressure

It is also handy to fit an Accumulator on the right side of the water system. In that I mean, on Independence the boat was built with one (small one at that) plumbed in to only serve the hot water side. The result is you have a smooth and even water flow on the hot side.

However, turn on the cold tap and the pump pulses annoyingly - turn on a mixer tap to  combine both hot and cold water and the pump really has some fun trying to pump continuously for the cold water flow but only a little for what the Accumulator's pressure is demanding.

[dnks34]

I connected ours in just after the pump, well actually its behind the pump but the hose connecting it isnt!!! 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

It is also handy to fit an Accumulator on the right side of the water system. In that I mean, on Independence the boat was built with one (small one at that) plumbed in to only serve the hot water side. The result is you have a smooth and even water flow on the hot side.

However, turn on the cold tap and the pump pulses annoyingly - turn on a mixer tap to  combine both hot and cold water and the pump really has some fun trying to pump continuously for the cold water flow but only a little for what the Accumulator's pressure is demanding.

Strange ideas these Taiwanese 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

It is also handy to fit an Accumulator on the right side of the water system. In that I mean, on Independence the boat was built with one (small one at that) plumbed in to only serve the hot water side. The result is you have a smooth and even water flow on the hot side.

However, turn on the cold tap and the pump pulses annoyingly - turn on a mixer tap to  combine both hot and cold water and the pump really has some fun trying to pump continuously for the cold water flow but only a little for what the Accumulator's pressure is demanding.

Why would anyone do that? got me thinking and the only reason I can think of that there were two small ones originally (one for hot and one for cold) the cold one leaked and was simply bypassed as a temporary fix that never became permanent. There would also have to be one way valves to stop the hot side  backfeeding into the cold and maybe two pressure switches after the one way valves..

[Guest]

2 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

It is also handy to fit an Accumulator on the right side of the water system. In that I mean, on Independence the boat was built with one (small one at that) plumbed in to only serve the hot water side. The result is you have a smooth and even water flow on the hot side.

However, turn on the cold tap and the pump pulses annoyingly - turn on a mixer tap to  combine both hot and cold water and the pump really has some fun trying to pump continuously for the cold water flow but only a little for what the Accumulator's pressure is demanding.

If its plumbed in on the hot side its either wrongly fitted or serving as an expansion tank which is impossible to know without seeing the boat or a drawing of the relivent pipe work , think about it the hot is controlled via the amount of cold water entering the hot tank that in its self is controlled by the pump and accumulator tank , the only thing the hot side needs is a PRV for when the water is too hot and an accumulator tank does the same job if its in the right place .

[LondonRascal]

I doubt it was because I can see no space for two - and why would you have two instead of just one large one? Also much of the equipment onboard is UK supplied, whereas things like taps, sinks, showers all had  their Taiwanese labels intact. I therefore wonder how much of the fit out was left until the boats were here in the UK and how much of some of the 'oddities' are as a result of works done here prior to delivery to the customer.  The plan is to replace the Accumulator with a larger model plumbed to the cold water outlet from the fresh water pump and from there serve both hot and cold water supplies.

[LondonRascal]

8 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

If its plumbed in on the hot side its either wrongly fitted or serving as an expansion tank which is impossible to know without seeing the boat or a drawing of the relivent pipe work

Here is the plans, and you will see it would appear as the Fresh Water Pump (FWP) has an Accumulator right after it, and before the Water Heater (WH)

Trader Plumbing.pdf

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Here is the plans, and you will see it would appear as the Fresh Water Pump (FWP) has an Accumulator right after it, and before the Water Heater (WH)

Trader Plumbing.pdf

That's how it should be to control ( smooth out ) the flow , the cold flow also controls the hot flow in reality , an accumulator on the relief side of the hot tank ie the take off pipe serves as a pressure relief valve ish n i do mean ish its not the best way to do it in my experience .

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

I doubt it was because I can see no space for two - and why would you have two instead of just one large one? Also much of the equipment onboard is UK supplied, whereas things like taps, sinks, showers all had  their Taiwanese labels intact. I therefore wonder how much of the fit out was left until the boats were here in the UK and how much of some of the 'oddities' are as a result of works done here prior to delivery to the customer.  The plan is to replace the Accumulator with a larger model plumbed to the cold water outlet from the fresh water pump and from there serve both hot and cold water supplies.

All seems very strange and "unconventional" as it is.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

I doubt it was because I can see no space for two - and why would you have two instead of just one large one? Also much of the equipment onboard is UK supplied, whereas things like taps, sinks, showers all had  their Taiwanese labels intact. I therefore wonder how much of the fit out was left until the boats were here in the UK and how much of some of the 'oddities' are as a result of works done here prior to delivery to the customer.  The plan is to replace the Accumulator with a larger model plumbed to the cold water outlet from the fresh water pump and from there serve both hot and cold water supplies.

Accumulators are sized to the system , small ones don't work on bigger systems .

[LondonRascal]

38 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Accumulators are sized to the system , small ones don't work on bigger systems .

Well the whole plumbing system is a mess - even the new pump has fallen apart - literally. It did not come with the red 'quick connect tabs' so I used the existing ones. All was fine until about 3 weeks ago, I was in the engine room - water system had pressured up fine and was changing the absorbent oil mats I had put down to catch the drips from the leaking fuel stand pipe the heater installers had caused when there was a 'pop' from behind me and I was duly then being soaked with water. 

I was shouting up to the Saloon 'TURN THE BLOODY WATER PUMP OFF' while trying to stem the flow gushing out at some odd 20 litres per minute. Of course up in the Saloon they had no idea where the breaker was for the fresh water pump so are slowly running down the list of breakers to turn off - seconds are feeling like minutes so I called out to just turn all the DC power off which they duly did - fortunately the lighting in the engine room is off the AC side so I was not plunged into darkness.

I thought the quick release red tabs may have broken, but they are perfect in all respects but no longer 'clip' into place with friction. At the slightest vibration they slide down just enough to allow  the pressured hose to pop off. I have therefore constructed quite an artistic array of Zip Ties that daisy chain from the tabs to the pump bracket and prevent the tab from vibrating free. This is of course not ideal and neither a long term fix but works for now.

I am currently looking for replacement tabs..

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ricardo said:

That's how it should be to control ( smooth out ) the flow , the cold flow also controls the hot flow in reality , an accumulator on the relief side of the hot tank ie the take off pipe serves as a pressure relief valve ish n i do mean ish its not the best way to do it in my experience .

 

1 hour ago, LondonRascal said:

Here is the plans, and you will see it would appear as the Fresh Water Pump (FWP) has an Accumulator right after it, and before the Water Heater (WH)

Trader Plumbing.pdf

The drawing at least looks conventional; filter, pump then accumulator. then there is then a "T" piece feeding hot and cold systems with equal pressure.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Well the whole plumbing system is a mess - even the new pump has fallen apart - literally. It did not come with the red 'quick connect tabs' so I used the existing ones. All was fine until about 3 weeks ago, I was in the engine room - water system had pressured up fine and was changing the absorbent oil mats I had put down to catch the drips from the leaking fuel stand pipe the heater installers had caused when there was a 'pop' from behind me and I was duly then being soaked with water. 

I was shouting up to the Saloon 'TURN THE BLOODY WATER PUMP OFF' while trying to stem the flow gushing out at some odd 20 litres per minute. Of course up in the Saloon they had no idea where the breaker was for the fresh water pump so are slowly running down the list of breakers to turn off - seconds are feeling like minutes so I called out to just turn all the DC power off which they duly did - fortunately the lighting in the engine room is off the AC side so I was not plunged into darkness.

I thought the quick release red tabs may have broken, but they are perfect in all respects but no longer 'clip' into place with friction. At the slightest vibration they slide down just enough to allow  the pressured hose to pop off. I have therefore constructed quite an artistic array of Zip Ties that daisy chain from the tabs to the pump bracket and prevent the tab from vibrating free. This is of course not ideal and neither a long term fix but works for now.

I am currently looking for replacement tabs..

The photograph has also shown us where the pressure regulator is.