Hit and Run

[LondonRascal]

To be fair to the boatyards they of course are in the business of being in business and have to make a profit.

 

Over time they will have a good idea how much ‘usual wear and tear’ is occasioned over the course of the season, how much time such usually takes to repair/re-paint etc and how much such costs.

 

Of course every now and then someone will be so foolish and take the top of the boat or try to getting it stuck under a bridge and this causes an unplanned for high cost repair to be carried out.

 

Now, we know that inflation is three quarters of bugger all and margins are being constantly pushed that fuel costs (while rising slowly) are not as high as were so by cutting 20p a litre off to say £1.20 a litre this will hit the yards cash flows too. 

 

If a yard took a refundable deposit they would be giving back a large amount of these deposits fully – even if it resulted in less damage to their hire boats or more responsibly boating in time the business may suffer.

 

Thus charging non-refundable waivers is a handy way to have some reserve funds accruing, and a guaranteed additional income over and above each hire.  You can even budge for such income from forecasting your hires for the coming season and simply adding to each hire the amount you charge as a security waiver. 

 

What causes me the most annoyance of this practice is it is not actually any form of insurance – it just means if you do something that was not negligent on your part you won’t be held responsible or liable for any costs. I think it should be more fair to call it something like ‘fleet maintenance fund contribution’ – for all those sums go into the pot and help pay for all the repairs over the winter or go elsewhere to invest overall into things but have nothing to do with waivers and customers liability. 

 

Also how one yard may charge £40.00 for a week, another £70.00 – and it is waiving me from liability, surely a short break is less risk so should be less than a week and 2 two weeks more risk so higher cost than a week, but it is the same flat rate.

 

I remember when it first arrived and was always the attractive proposition £150.00 deposit of pay £20.00 and be done with it, when one hands over up to £70.00 on top of their hire cost and fuel deposit knowing it will not be gotten back it is (to me) is too much. 

 

Then Hoseaons/Blakes like to try and bung on more charges for insurance for things like personal accident or loss of valuables on the boat when on holiday – I wonder what the small print really is probably impossible to comply with like “must be kept in a locked cupboard out of sight within a lock boat”.

 

I’ve had a fraught Tuesday afternoon, it might show.

[johnm]

AlexandLorna, I suggest that you actually take the time to look at the local navigation Byelaws - they are readily available here:

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/399230/Navigation_Byelaws_1995-1.pdf

 

If you did, you might note that Byelaw 23 specifically notes:

Subject to the requirements of Byelaw 15:

(a) The master of a power-driven vessel underway shall keep his vessel out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in its ability to manoeuvre; (iii) a sailing vessel;
(iv) a quanted vessel. 

Byelaw 15 does allow that if the qaunted vessel is overtaking, then he has to keep out of the way of anything he is overtaking however unlikely that may be!

 

Deliberate negligence I cannot abide and agree that the perpetrators should be reported. However, accepting that the Broads sees all sorts of novices in all sorts of craft, when the conditions become marginal and some of these novices (and possibly other more experienced folk) get caught out might it possibly be more helpful all round if bystanders offered assistance and encouragement instead of standing by and glowering disapprovingly. 

[Guest]

 

AlexandLorna, I suggest that you actually take the time to look at the local navigation Byelaws - they are readily available here:

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/399230/Navigation_Byelaws_1995-1.pdf

 

If you did, you might note that Byelaw 23 specifically notes:

Subject to the requirements of Byelaw 15:

(a) The master of a power-driven vessel underway shall keep his vessel out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;

(ii) a vessel restricted in its ability to manoeuvre; (iii) a sailing vessel;

(iv) a quanted vessel. 

Byelaw 15 does allow that if the qaunted vessel is overtaking, then he has to keep out of the way of anything he is overtaking however unlikely that may be!

 

Deliberate negligence I cannot abide and agree that the perpetrators should be reported. However, accepting that the Broads sees all sorts of novices in all sorts of craft, when the conditions become marginal and some of these novices (and possibly other more experienced folk) get caught out might it possibly be more helpful all round if bystanders offered assistance and encouragement instead of standing by and glowering disapprovingly. 

 

 

John, you beat me to it! It is perhaps worth adding that even a sailing vessel is required to keep out of the way of a quanted vessel. Eminently sensible, if you think about it.

[johnm]

Spider,

Indeed it is as anyone who has ever quanted a boat more than 100yds or so will vouch!

[Baitrunner]

And does everyone know what signals a quanted or sailing or sail under power vessel should show? Or a vessel with limited manouverability?

Some on here maybe but 80% will not know and doubt any of said vessels show the right signals either.

A skipper of a vessel shall keep a proper lookout and avoid a collision. If in doubt keep away or give them a wide berth.

And no one has right of way!!

[10B]

Please help me understand.

I hire a boat for a week, I pay my hire charge for a boat that must have insurance cover.

During my holiday I have an accident with another boat, which is my fault

Details are swapped.

On return to the boatyard I fill in an insurance form and the boatyard claims off their insurance company.

What is a waiver charge for?

[Matt]

Because in most instances the boatyard won't claim off the insurance they will bundle the £30 or so non refundable deposits and wherever possible rectify the damage using their own manpower.

Two points on the above-the other party would have to agree to them fixing the boat and if you stood to loose several hundred pounds in deposit would you be so willing to admit to the damages?

dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.......

[JawsOrca]

And does everyone know what signals a quanted or sailing or sail under power vessel should show? Or a vessel with limited manouverability?

 

The signal generally given by a vessel being quanted is "that bored fed up look".. A vessel with limited manoeuvrability is generally pretty evident due to the zig zagging of "Ferry gliding" although it's all pretty normal for norfolk!

 

I know this easier said but personally we have brought the boat to Norfolk expecting that there's going to be the odd bump, we've not painted the hull overly well again expecting to repaint it. Thankfully in all the years on the broads I've had little bumps and the only damage to our boat was actually caused by a stupid owner jumping on to the hire boat and driving it like a complete moron (Mum and dad know what I mean)  .

 

We had a close encounter with experienced hirer over the weekend, they was determined to get the boat into a non existing gap and expecting that the bow thruster was going to do all the mooring for them  , we stayed calm and moored the boat for them but it shows when it gets a little more busy I'm probably not going to be so mellow and calm but it's nice to know that Orca is really well laid up and we can repair most damage easily ourselves.

 

With regards to the damage waiver, I'm sure I asked the yard before and was told that the value charged is the excess on the insurance policy. I guess you should get it back if no damage and I'm sure I used to get it back when hiring although I can't remember. I agree it should be charged as it encourages people to be careful (as long it's returned).

 

[alexandlorna]

I have no wish or need to look at any byelaws , since my general stance (previously stated) ,is to err on the side of caution and give way to other vessels competently helmed or not , sail power or quont driven

I will not stand by and wait for a collision and damage caused by negligence or allow someone to damage that which has cost me (like many others )thousands of pounds .

If I was to drive my van down the side of someones car would they not be entitled to glower☺