Minifer

You've surprised me there JM! No 1 is still my favourite, and I have just realised the design is by Feilden & Mawson who are based in Norwich and designed the floating visitor centre at Ranworth years ago. I have to now admit I had an unknown bias as my father was an architect for them for most of his working life. The other submissions are not local architects. I was wondering if No. 3 is meant to echo the cap of a windmill/windpump? It is an odd shape. I am struggling a bit with the sails one, it seems a bit too Sydney Opera House derivative for me. But it is a Norfolk shape we can all recognise.

No. 2 is obviously meant to echo a wherry sail. I like no 1, simple and beautiful. I don't like No. 3 at all.

For the Norfolk Punt, go to 1.21 on The Q's video on page 2 of this thread and you get a nice long shot of some punts getting ready - they have changed over the years so you get slightly different versions as the class has developed. Here is a photo of one sailing from a few years back on Barton.

I did not miss it, I was saying the current theory is they are all medieval, not Roman. Bear in mind the giant estuary that existed then, sea levels were higher, the land was wet swamp. As for the rest moving on, I guess we all have our opinions, we are all diverse. You can't please them all.

I did see it :) I've spent a long time studying the history, archaeology, flora and fauna of the Broads and also their boats- pretty much every tome going as they have been published as well as buying up a good back catalogue of historical ones. Currently wading through Emma Turner's book "Broadland Birds" published in 1924. She was a naturalist who lived on a houseboat on Hickling Broad and was one of the first few people to shoot wildlife with a camera, not a gun to use as evidence. She was quite the eccentric and had lots of help from the local landowners and gamekeepers. I think I am a bit obsessed!

We probably need a new definition now because in my not that long lifetime opinions have changed on their formation and timeline. Am I right in thinking the current view is they were all formed in about 300 years in the medieval period as small peat diggings allowed to flood consecutively? I've seen a 1950's aerial photo of Barton Broad that shows the how the pits were dug in sections as the water was low enough to see the ridge lines clearly. So my definition today is Norfolk and Suffolk flooded medieval dug peat pits that are shallow lakes, some of which are now connected to rivers. I do think it is good to educate, I'm not that surprised that primary school kids don't know the exact definition - pretty sure landforms are a secondary school thing, so it therefore down to whether the parents have explained it.

That was me, because it is part of the design brief (although I was not meaning to include watersports): "2. An education space for school groups of about 40 students, combined with a cafe space of approximately 45-50 covers inside and a further 30-35 sheltered outside. The cafe will be open all year but its reduced use off-season will allow a large part of the space to be used for education purposes – however both uses need to co-exist. Internal space for a workstation (for Rangers and other Authority staff to drop in) is also required."

Because the kind of money that would have to be put in would not make it profitable. It has to offer other functions to make it worth the outlay. There is a reason there are not a lot of small seasonal shops on the Broads, and pubs change hands all the time. I would like there to be a shop facility there too - I'm not against that. I still think it unsuitable as a teaching base - but looking at the competition pdf earlier I could see a bit of marsh and dyke behind it so yes they probably can offer a reasonable teaching opportunity, but when you have How Hill down the road why bother competing. Whitlingham already offers educational opportunities, has a visitor centre, cafe and is already successful, I would not be surprised if that success is not in the back of their minds. If it was some body other than the BA opening a cafe and multifunction room there I doubt there would be quite so much squit on here!

Whitlingham already has a visitor centre. This competition is only looking for a design concept, it's really a feasibility study in my view - from the costings it's not going to be huge, they are asking for a sustainable building that can cope being on a flood plain and I have nothing against a visitor centre actually being on the Broads. They own the site, it is in a good location, so suggesting other sites not owned by the BA that have gravel pits seems a bit pointless to me. A seasonal shop on its own will not be profitable and they have to put something there that could be used by many tourists and locals- not just boaters - that is sustainable to make it worth it. Serving the boating community alone will not.

There are plenty of educational activities occurring near and on water in Norfolk alone, it is tricky with health and safety (not as bad as construction say, the area I work in now - I create 60-page long risk and method statements for masonry works on individual sites), but not at all impossible. I managed to teach all ages by the water with no accidents for years. The BA have a great educational team too, I just think that the location does not offer the right waterside opportunities to make it viable. Either you are on the water in boats, in which case you need a broad, or you are dyke dipping on marshland and comparing different habitats etc. I don't think it will serve. But I still think it is a good site for a visitor centre, for inland people as well as boaters. I don't think they will have the money to do it all anyway.

Well that is my point exactly JM. An educational centre at Acle would be in direct competition with How Hill and would not offer anything better because How Hill is exceedingly good. The Acle version would have to offer something different. I can see a multifunction room being of use, that could be used for education/training/talks if needs arise

I had a good think about what I would like there, and then read the pdf JP linked to, and pretty much what is written (I've copied it below) is what I would like. Having taught educational field trips visits in Norfolk years ago I'd agree that it is not the best location for them, specially when there is such good competition up the road at How Hill, they'd have to think out of the box there to make them worth the outlay to get the school bookings. I'm not sure there is room for a marina as well as dayboat hire, but would like to see full facilities for passing boat traffic. Otherwise I approve, and would like a modern, sensitive to its situation, outstanding visitor centre building there with cafe/shop. As both Cley and the old floating Ranworth NWT centres show, it can be done. I'm excited to see what they do. "....key components identified at the first meeting are: 1. A landmark building sensitive to the landscape and demonstrating modern techniques and providing views across the Broads landscape. A building which celebrates the rich cultural traditions and unique landscape of the Broads National Park. 2. Multi-purpose building including - Education Centre for school groups combined with a Café/Multi-purpose space with provision for the activities to expand out of doors when the weather is good. Space to be capable of also being used for training and public events. The café should be able to include a bar for evening events and space to sell a small range of basic goods. 3. Rather than a dedicated space for interpretation the building itself should tell the story of the Broads, its history and importance as well as key sustainability issues. 4. The site should have an adequate number of toilets and showers to meet the needs of visiting boats at the peak in the summer) and passing trade for the café and school groups in term time. 5. Car and coach parking for visitors and school parties. Potential for a cycle hire facility. 6. Demonstration elements – flood risk management/development in the flood plain, sustainability and electric charging points for vehicles – all to be incorporated within design. 7. Facilities for visiting boats to the site including waste disposal, washing machines and Wi-Fi. 8. Slipway for launching small motor boats with access such that a crane could lift Broads Authority vessels in and out of the water as necessary. A day-boat hire operation. 9. Investigate the potential for a marina. 10. Sign posting long distance Weavers Way and encouraging people to get out into the landscape. In this regard there will be a strong link up with projects under the HLF funded Water, Mills and Marshes programme. 11. Low maintenance building suitable for public use and the wear and tear associated and therefore using some high quality materials and fittings. 12. A design which is in keeping with the Authority’s core values, is in accord with planning policies, responds to the constraints and exploits the opportunities of the site."

No, I did mean pace - the pace of new developments cropping up, not the countryside itself. But I do live in a rural community where the pace is as you quote. Sadly looking at the speed of urban creep, I have about 20-30 years before it becomes a suburb of Norwich.

As far as I am aware the not very hidden agenda of the NDR was for it to allow access to housing developments yet to be built. Since the upgrade of the A11 Norfolk has had a house building boom and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. It is now very attractive for Londoners. I work in construction and although it helps my business I do not like seeing the pace of the countryside being eaten up by huge developments. I use the NDR regularly and I don't like those 3 lane roundabouts either.

I'd heard something similar - that the white birds are trained and semi-tame - not to be shot, used by the gamekeeper to get the released birds to come to some feeding areas and therefore keeping them local. It would explain why there is a penalty for shooting them as the gamekeeper would have to start the whole process over.

Yes that was the one.

My boat was on that programme too - nearly spat my tea out!

I've yet to see the programme so I don't know if you are referring to a different punt, but the Norfolk Sailing Punt does indeed have a centreboard.

They are showing the whole series starting tonight on BBC 2 at 8pm

That's great news.

I was so sad to see this. One of my favourite places to eat for a special occasion. Very sad for the family next door too.

Maybe I just got lucky! I accept it is a bad year for it, but I've seen it worse, and you do get these odd years where it goes mental.

I can remember visiting Hickling to dinghy sail in the 1980's and being really shocked by the amount of weed (I normally sailed on Barton Broad) everywhere and in the channel - it was far worse than it has been this year, although it has been bad this season, I assumed due to the weather we have had this year. The channel is clear though, maybe the odd margin area has it, but it is pretty much clear for navigation. We did mudweight out of the channel for a while last weekend and the entire Hunter fleet was sailing all around, it was weedy but not choked.

Impressive rescue though!

As I happen to own a kayak I think this is a good thing. MM I suspect the BA canoe toll would apply due to the BA monitary input even if it is out of the normal navigation area, but it does need clarification. I know it is a growing sport and changes are happening but it is great exercise and fantastic to be at duck level. I manage not to antagonise anglers too ...