oldgregg

Yeah, disabling the plugin for the Apps has made pretty much everything work now. Unfortunately it does mean we can't turn the Apps back on until there's a fix for the service that runs them.

There were some issues with the App, and some issues with the forum partly caused by the plugin that feeds the App. Because of that, the App is currently disabled while we make sure everything else is working. This upgrade has been a complete mare and is making us think about our platform and the way we do updates.

This does give us a problem as obviously the mobile app is quite popular and not working at present, but we're working on it.

They are, yes. Emissions tests are well-known to be total balls. But the article also pointed out that they're still at least a third cleaner than regular vehicles. I'll take that and having driven a proper hybrid recently I would have to say they're pretty good.

It seems to have fixed a lot of things.

The service which runs the mobile app seems to be causing a lot of trouble, so for now it is switched off until we can get things working again.

Yeah, there are a lot of issues with that. I think there's a pretty major bug that they need to sort.

I think that was kind of the point I and others made above? Actually, while battery density is indeed quoted in wh per litre, the experimental Samsung batteries are claimed to be close to the same figure per kilo. If you look at the development of vehicle batteries over the last ten years, energy density has dramatically improved. Look at the first-gen leaf and the current one, then compare the battery capacity and the vehicle's overall weight. But yes, as mentioned earlier it is likely that fuel cell is the answer. What I was talking about is the potential of having a decent (say 100KWH) battery pack on a boat in order to provide domestic and propulsion power for a time (say proper overnight electrics, and power below 4mph) but with a fuel cell there to keep thing topped up during daytime hours and when the boat is moving faster. Think of the noise benefit. People say diesel isn't a problem but I bet if you had a near-silent cruiser you'd love it. We all would.

I think basically the toolbar is missing on mobile, which would cover most of those issues. And yeah, the most recent posts are lagging behind considerably which makes it very difficult to see what's going on.... I have raised that.

I assume you're using a mobile device?

I would like that..... but I can't

Hi Steve This is related to the forum upgrade and one of many things we're looking into...

Hmmm.... Yes there should be a hamburger icon at the top left. I'll raise that as well!

Yeah, that's still broken, unfortunately. When I came into the office this morning I updated our (lengthy) support ticket to say that needs fixing.

Well I think that's a new feature, as you say if they're not seen when viewed they're unread...

Hi folks Having had extensive problems over the last few days, having worked with our hosting company in the US we now have most of the forum back to relative normality. There is a slightly different look to the page, and that's something which is here to stay. With each major update we expect to see visual changes in the software and for the most part they're a welcome improvement. If any of you are still experiencing problems, please can you reply to this thread. If all is good, then no need to post as it'll keep things easier for us to keep track of. Thanks for your patience!

The interior is impressive, actually. Mrs OG was very keen on the look of the bedroom and shower room on Zircon Emblem (essentially the same but a Haines fitout). I reckon Zircon will be a nicer boat, though NBD are not half bad. I did point out that it was 2.5 times the price of Major Gem for a long weekend, though, and suddenly Major Gem is back in favour for some reason?

Yeah, I mean a Toyota Mirai is about £66K I think? That has a 114KW fuel cell and given that the vehicle is otherwise basically just a Prius then you'd have to say the fuel cell and gubbins is half of that price and I bet they're subsidising that. One of those on a hireboat would change things, but the prototype isn't going to leave you any change out of half a million realistically.

Well you could do the same thing with a diesel genset. I mean that's essentially what Brinks have done with their hybrid boats, but obviously I'm thinking in terms of modern battery tech and making sure there was a big enough genset in there to keep things adequately topped up. The real benefit here would be that you'd not hear engines at moorings between 8pm and 8am, could run silently at lower speeds, and the problems with flat batteries for hirers would be a thing of the past. I've spent far too long explaining the maths behind battery usage to syndicate owners to think that telling people to run the engine for at least 4 hours a day and not go mad with power consumption would actually work. It doesn't.

I think one of the main benefits from a fuel-cell vehicle of any type is noise. We're all used to the sound of a diesel engine and the vibration associated with it, but can you imagine how nice it would be not to have that? I don't think anyone would miss it for long. I reckon a boat with a decent-sized battery pack and a fuel cell wouldn't be a bad solution. Fuel cells are much quieter but they're not silent, so you'd not want it kicking in at 6am when you go to make a cup of tea. Perhaps you'd have the system configured to run the fuel cell between the hours of 8am and 8pm when the battery is below 25% capacity, and always run it when the vessel speed is more than 5mph SOG (easy to get from GPS) unless the battery is over 75% or so. With that config you'd have a boat that can do a week on hire, can cruise almost silently at 4mph and can let you have an electric kettle. I wouldn't like to think how much it would cost, though.

Right - Some things are now working, other things are not. But we're getting there. The problem was caused by a bug in an update for the forum software. This update was quite a big one, so the new look is actually part of the update, though some notable stuff like adverts are currently missing. The update was done over the weekend while I was out on the Broads, and while I fortunately did have my laptop with me I wasn't able to do much anyway until our hosting company started working on the issue. For the last three years, the same company has provided the forum software and hosting for us so we don't have to run our own servers and for the most part this does save us a lot of hassle. However, they don't work weekends and are based in the US so don't cover the same hours as us.

I've chased them up again today, but no unfortunately the issue is down to a bug with an update and they're taking longer than expected to resolve it. Once sorted we should be more or less back to normal. Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

This is an area that really interests me and I'd have been about sooner had I not been out boating on a diesel vessel ;) Battery technology is getting there, but the old lead-acid stuff is hopeless because as Vaughan says it weighs tonnes and is really inefficient. A 100kwh Tesla Model S battery pack weighs in the region of 625KG, and has an energy density of circa 160 watt hours per kilo. Lead acid has a density of something like 35 watt hours per kilo. The very latest battery tech being developed by Samsung gets the density figure much higher (they're talking headline figures of 900w/h per kilo, but even half that would be impressive). It's probably five to ten years until we see that on the market. So perhaps in ten years' time we might see marinised packs of the right sort of capacity and weight but they still won't be cheap. I reckon a 300kwh pack would probably do the job for a Broads cruiser (and yes I've factored in domestics) but again you'd need to charge it every two to three days somewhere, depending on your usage. For pootling around quietly on the North you'd get quite a lot more out of it. But that charge would need to be at a DC fast charger, which is the real problem. Imagine 300 hire boats moored up on a Saturday morning, each trying to pull 100kw out of the grid..... I think silent cruising would be awesome (as I drove up to Dilham yesterday at 3mph it occured to me how cool that would be), but I think for some considerable time there will need to be an engine aboard. There are several diesel hybrids on hire but I don't think any of them are using modern tech, mainly because you're currently looking at probably £50K for 300kwh of Tesla batteries, and that's before you buy the motor or any of the control kit. Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

The problem is that battery monitors do need calibrating for the batteries they're being used with otherwise they're useless. Also, the usable capacity with conventional batteries is only realistically 50% of the rated capacity otherwise they'll be ruined. I have experienced the issue in syndicate with the monitor showing something like 80% charge when the batteries are clearly flat (heating not starting and then lights dimming when the water pump runs etc). Naturally, I started the engine. I think Barnes do tend to put a 50hp lump in some of their newer boats and whack a pair of big alternators on in order to ensure the batteries get a decent amount of charge even if not much running is done. Our owners used to insist they were doing 'plenty' of running and weren't responsible for the flat batteries, but the 600 engine hours a year on a 48-week boat (averaging out to just 12.5 hours a week) proved that to be complete rubbish.

I'm not a fan of sockets with integrated USB ports. On the vast majority of them there is no way of isolating the charger, so if it develops a fault (and we've all heard of problems with USB chargers going pop) and decides to cook itself then it's going to be a pretty unpleasant job of hastily removing the socket. The better ones shut the power off when the USB cable is removed, but in reality people are probably going to leave the leads plugged in for the sake of convenience. Why they don't have a switch for the USB component is beyond me.