D46

What government coffers ??? The government dont have any money all of it is deducted via tax hence it's public money not the government's as quite rightly was Stated in the house yesterday by ex PM Mrs May . How on Earth can you claim the government projects will not affect the tax payers that crazy they always have done , just as most of them over run most have vastly increased costs when completed , is there some sort of money tree at Westminster ? " Increases in new house building costs will be absorbed by the developer " Really !! Since when has that ever happened , developer's ain't a charity group they are there to make money , most of which funds further projects , costs go up prices go up , just as it always has been .

The only problem for the Marine sector is the timeframe of 2 yrs and it certainly won't work on the Broads as the infastructure to recharge isn't there , as fir going to sea that's completely out of the question . Regarding safe guarding fuel let's not forget that it's not the fuel that's changing it's the taxation , it extremely likely boats will be running still on red diesel or it would cause major problems for the owners and the yards , that's not been surgested by the government only the tax has . If someone managed to strike a deal with a farmer for example , then who's to say where that fuel came from , the only be way is by fuel receipts and who keeps those ? . Farmers and indeed people with heating oil tanks are a far bigger target for theft than boats are although there is still a target issue there . Me I've a valve on the fuel delivery pipe that gets shut when away from the boat , therefore it's impossible to syphon fuel , doesn't affect the engine as the filler cap is sealed anyway and there's a breather on the tank , only thing yo remember is open the value before refilling .

Exactly my point the big picture is quite enormous really

Agreed but the end user isn't just one person as this surely is all construction that involves using plant powered by diesel fuel , that would then include all locals council's , highways departments etc , that currently funded by Grant's and council tax so expect a cost increase there . Even BA don't escape as all their work boats are diesel powered as is their plant etc , therefore probably an increase in tolls to fund the navigation budget is likely . Either way it will directly affect many people regardless of if the own a boat or not . Construction is absolutely key to this country and it certainly won't just affect those having things built such as houses as many things are affected and therefore many people affected . It would ( unfortunately if that's the word ) even affect the visitors center at Acle , on less it built really quickly , personally I won't loose sleep over that one , but I really can't understand how some think this is such a none event and will not affect them other than boating .

Technically we should have stopped using it back in 2008 it was HMRC that introduced the current situation. The law was already in place within the EU they just pushed us to fall in line with them . That however I believe only affected boats not construction , however the current government has decided to include that sector presumably under the banner of climate change , how can the smaller sector of red diesel use have anything more than a token gesture on climate change . Clearly some see this as no problem not just for the marine industry but also for construction , me I beg to differ on that but if they don't care about additional taxation which is all it is effectively then fine refuse the rebate and pay full duty on your boat fuel ( which you can currently do for the next 2 yrs ) , and please feel free to part with more money when you call in Bob the builder etc .

Perhaps because construction is so very important to this country as far as the economy is concerned , it thought that was very widely known TBH , all construction projects will as soon as this comes in be more expensive including housing etc , that also includes government schemes that are funded by the tax payers .

Thank goodness for common sense , the total amount of red diesel use actually equates to 15% of diesel used , that includes construction , rail , farming , boats the hole lot , rail and farming keep their rebate and they are by far the biggest users ..this isn't don't for climate change it's pure taxation that can and probably will have an negative impact on the Marine industry and tourism to say nothing of private boats . Anyone who felt guilty about being a rebate on fuel could have quite easily paid tax on 100% of the fuel purchased the 60/40 split is a total fantasy it doesn't and never has existed in the eyes of the law and the RYA .

I don't think anyone would wish boats to be given the tax break and construction not given it . Personally I can't understand why the government would wish to increase increase fuel duty for the construction industry , the industry is extremely important to the country's economy and as a result of increased costs has a impact on the housing market and indeed inflation as a whole . Regarding boats this decision has a impact on tourism as well as private boat ownership , it may well be just enough to cause a struggling hire yard to consider it's options . The marine industry as a whole will feel the effect including Marina's who may well be faced with vacant spaces due to people selling up , if a lot of folk do that then second hand prices get reduced as do brokerage commissions . Incidentally if anyone is feeling the slightest bit guilty in not paying full duty in the none propulsion side of the fuel they are buying , then the can if they do choose declare it all to propulsion and pay the full duty on 100% of the fuel , that's simple to do in the self declaration form , that is cause if the yard actually produce one not many do , that said it is a legal requirement required by HMRC . Some how I doubt many will feel guilty enough to pay full duty on fuel when they don't have to , and I would expect the tanks on those owner's boats completely full before full duty has to be paid in boat fuel .

It will be a small cost if you don't go out very often I'll accept that but those that use their boat will feel it , moorings with WiFi / CCTV etc are a personal choice as is the type/ size of car anyone drives along with how big their house is hence council tax band , smoking , all of that is personal choice and by no means essential . It's the same going abroad it's not essential to life . I'm not saying you can't do it , what I m saying is if you go then don't moan about it . What has happened today regarding fuel for boats has a impact on not just the casual boater but the whole of the Marine industry as well as tourism both of which are quite fragile and I completely fail to see how the hire boater is hit harder than the private one , sure they use diesel but only for a minimum period pee yr , like I said if you don't use your boat that much it won't make much difference , but I also said that I thought boater's were on the same page singing from the same hymn sheet and I'm all right jack didn't come in to it on any level . You did get me laughing though regarding fuel prices Riverside being adjusted to suit market prices , never ever happened and never ever will .

You sound like you don't care TBH , it has been fine with our own government for decades , this action is forced on the UK by the EU no one else. Mind you it depends how much you actually use your boat , use it a lot it will cost you , don't do then you probably don't care . That said I'm of the opinion that boater's stand together regardless of how much or little it's costing another , I guess that's another vision distroyed . Thing is all governments don't worry about taxing the public , so explain to me why since 2004 this has been consistently ignore by 2 party's and HMRC ? , Labour under Tony Blair vetoed this move 3 times , had it been in their interest they would have instantly taken it onboard , fact is they and successive governments and HMRC didn't implement it as all of them know it's extremely difficult to enforce and costs more than it gains in revenue to do that .

Believe it or not even BA got fuel removed from a launch approximately a yr back !

While it doesn't mention boats directly I'm pretty sure they are tied up in this , as for doing this to construction which is very very important this is a serious blow . Incidentally this includes all construction on government projects including HS2 . More taxation to pay for that ?? I wouldn't be at all surprised .

It is is the self declaration you need to make when re fuelling , the responsibility is on the person refueling to do that why else would there be self declaration forms ?

It means only a marginal difference to me says everything ! . What about the bigger picture in what I means to others , thousands of people in just Norfolk are involved in the boating industry so to say it hardly effects me is basically selfish . Without trying to be too critical you obviously have fallen into the trap of the 60/40 split , the law states it's up to the purchaser of the fuel to designate the % split and that is why you are ( as are the yard ) legally required to sign a declaration everytime the tank has any fuel put onto it no matter how much . Many boats don't have diesel heating but there's another misconception as it also discounted for the generation of electricity . In the eyes of the law as you have to at every fill up disclose the amount going to propulsion and elsewhere , anyone not doing is breaking the law , just as yards that fill boats on 60/40 are , how do they know how that fuel will be used ? . Lord knows how yards are Getty away with it or some yards I should say , I went for yrs at one yard without signing a thing now I have to as from a few months back , the incentive is on the person filling the tank to remain with in the law , when was anyone other than the person using the car on a road convicted of tax evasion ???

Nothing wrong with learning especially learning to sail it teaches you boating skills ie using the wind and tide etc.

If Rockland is the nearest place the it goes there , regardless of how long it is , infact quite alot when Rockland was dredged went to postwick and I'm well aware as to why that was as the original idea was to dump it close by but due to the nature of the product it had to go to postwick . I did notice you completely failed to give an alternative site !!! Maybe had you done your attack of another's comment would have got more credibility .

Is it as you thought and yet neither you or marshman come up with any alternatives ??? . What on Earth makes you think SWT will give the land ( transfer ownership ) to BA ?

If they didn't take it it could go to Rockland or postwick , obviously there's a cost to that but I doubt it's as high as the mooring's are costing . However the fact is they actually want it and at that point it should have been sign on the dotted line , these moorings were given away at no cost to SWT just the toll payers when there's a perfectly good mooring the other side of the river , anyone wishing to go to the reserve can just as easily get to it by mooring at oulton broad .

I think alot might disagree that it does make a jot of difference , after all it's money's contributed in tolls being used . To me if there's a case where a project is benifical to both the navigation and conservation etc then the costs should be split on a percentage basis to each budget . How on earth can BA be hoped to be seen in a good light if they don't act fairly and with transparency especially when spending public money .

Bramerton is indeed double mooring as is postwick and church fen , stern on at church fen was really stupid to me the quay zig zags so it would work . I fully understand why the ferry was rejected as it would have been rather dangerous given its location . Pick your time going into bargate these days it's very slited up , I believe BA were going to look into that , the good news there though is the abandoned boat was removed last month .

Actually I most certainly have moored there , for first timers any mooring is a huge eye opener especially since they no longer have the help of the yards personal as the had at hand over , personally I don't see that much difference in the new inn and many other moorings and I certainly don't see several knot's of tide at anytime in the area of the swan .

Several knot's? There's me thinking yare ran fast no wonder some boats head south if that's the case .

It's ok virgin Atlantic are doing their best to keep up pollution by flying empty aircraft due to drop in booking , all that's brought about by having to protect their landing and take off slots or they will lose them thanks to EU law . Not too sure the oil price everything to do with the virus I thought that came about because of a price war ?

It wasn't just at bramerton church fen was also down for a Stern on mooring trial , at least at bramerton the quay heading is a straight line unlike church fen

Fast flowing there ?? Lord help those that venture on the southern rivers to the ferry house at surlingham where it's considerably faster and more exposed to wind , they don't have a mooring attendant , besides what on earth can the atendent do stood on the bank if the boater gets it wrong or doesn't listen ??? .