Mowjo

Thanks Andy! I didn't realise it was that simple to tell them apart, if you go to this link and scroll down a bit there are diagrams of all three types of pump The writing is hard to read in the diagrams but it gives you a general idea of what your looking at, Tony's site is really useful and has got me out of trouble with stuff in the past, it's well worth going to the home page and saving the site to your favorites,, http://www.tb-training.co.uk/13bfuel.htm Also thanks to everyone that's added to this topic, I know there have been bits that I got wrong but not once has anyone shot me down, only politely corrected me that's why I love this site,, Frank,,,,

Alan! I used the magic sponges last time and they did a good job, but combined with the power spray this time they did a great job, got every bit of ingrained dirt and crud out,,,,,, anyways not the best picture but these fenders are four years old and I threw the NBN flag in for good measure,,, Frank,,,,

Thanks Leo! I couldn't remember if it was the Sulphur or the FAME and to be honest I've read so many things about the low sulphur I couldn't be bothered to look again, and knew if I was wrong someone would correct me, that's why I like this site,, Oh and Leo the bit about the inline pumps was a copy and paste from a site that services pumps so it may only apply to cars anyway,,,, Palidine! sounds like good news for you then,, Frank,,,,

Hi Folks! I saw this mentioned on another forum for cleaning fenders, and as Judi had a bottle I thought I'd give it a try, it's Fairy Power cleaner, it's the dogs doo dahs! I've tried loads of other cleaners like Cif, bleach cleaners, PVC cleaners you name I've tried it, but the power cleaner bought my fenders up like new, you just spray it on, leave it for 10 minutes, give it a scrub with one of those magic sponges and rinse it off, I wish I did a before and after piccie now, but this stuff even surprised me, Frank,,,,

Forgot to mention I think most of the older engines have rotary pumps, like BMC, Thornycroft,

Sorry JTF the last part of my post was a copy and paste, I have no idea about the Pumps, but as far as I can work out it doesn't really affect inline pumps as they are using as they use the crankcase oil, and oil expands the seals so less likely to leak, the rotary pump used to rely on the sulphur in the diesel to lubricate the seals, now it has gone low sulphur they have effectively removed most of the sulphur, and this causes the seals to shrink and the pump more likely to leak, to be honest I have no idea how it pumps diesel into the sump but trust me it does, maybe Andy or Mark can tell you more on that,,, Frank,,,,

Final topcoat on today! just anti foul and bits a bobs left, in the last two weeks I've lost count of how many people walking past me have said, " Oh your painting your boat then?" Erm! no I just got the brushes and paint because I was bored! talk about stating the bleeding obvious, used to get that going fishing, loaded up with fishing gear and always some pillock would say, "Your going fishing then??" trust me with my sense of humour it's very hard for me to say nothing, mind you today I was moaning about fly's landing on my fresh paint and leaving makes, some guy who is a bit of a pain said a blind man would like to see it, to which I replied Yes but I ain't bloody blind, he left rather quickly, mind you I've had a lot of compliments about the finish, had one guy ask me how much I'd charge to paint his boat, don't think David would be very happy me doing that! and taught two guys how to get a good finish, one got the hang of it the other said sod that when I told him the amount of prepping to get the finish, he said why all that it's only a boat! true but it's my boat and if it's not right I'm not happy, having gone totally off topic, I'm good at that, John! Lathams do a set of Pull rods for about £10, they do the job of pulling cables ok, just don't go round any tight bends because the ends snap off,,, see! now you can't say I'm off topic,,, Frank,,,,,

I'll need a months rest, my back is just about shot and my knees are killing me, I'm wondering if it's anything to do with the two days of sanding and filling, three undercoats sanded down between each coat and the two topcoats sanded down between each coat, and I've still got two coats of anti foul to do, plus put the fittings and new names on the hull, two weeks solid and I still have the topside to do, who said retirement was easy??? Frank,,,,,

Geeze! you lot need to plan ahead, If I ever have to bend or kneel down to do something I always try and think of other jobs I can do while I'm down there, it saves a wasted journey that way,,

MBird! I think certain fuel pumps are more prone to it than others, so it can depend on what you have on yours, I did read an article about it but I can't find it anywhere, but I did find this snippet,,, The seals in question are fuel injection and throttle-shaft O-rings and gaskets made with a rubber compound. Some of these seals are reportedly failing after as little as 3 weeks exposure to the new low sulphur diesel fuel. Engines with rotary injector pumps use diesel for lubrication, as contrasted with in-line pumps which use crankcase oil. As a result, engines with rotary pumps are, at this time, the hardest hit. Frank,,,

Mmm! Secret Lady, does the wife know about this,,

Being so nice to you all I found this PBO report on Diesel bug treatment, took me weeks to find it, I didn't know it could all be so confusing but Grotamar 82 Marine 16 and Soltron came out well, Looking like Soltron being best if you use your boat a lot, anyway have a read and you can make up your own minds what's best for you and we can fight afterwards,, Personaly I'm torn between Soltron because I use my boat a lot, and Grotamar 82 anyway here's the link to the article,, http://content.yudu.com/A1tjuq/PBOMayarticle/resources/7.htm Oh! and thanks Paladine, now I have something else to worry about, I'm sure there are copper parts in my fuel lines,,

JTF! Palidine is right runaways have been going on even before the new low sulphur fuel, and even with it I think a lot of the problems are down to lack of maintenance or just plain old engines getting a bit worn out, if the seals do leak on your pump it put diesel into the sump and dilutes the oil, so if your piston rings are a bit worn as they probably are on most of our old BMC's and stuff it follows that the diluted oil/diesel will have an easier path to the combustion chambers, from research if you can call it that the new low sulphur fuel accelerates the degradation of some types of rubber like the ones used in older fuel pumps and turbo's, the lack of sulphur they say shrinks the seals and I presume the extra bit of slack makes them wear a bit quicker leading to leaks, the old style diesel with the sulphur in actually expands the seals keeping them leak tight, as for will it or won't you get a leak I don't think anyone can answer it, in my case there was no warning, I'd checked the oil before starting the boat, just pure oil, took the boat round to our pump out no more than 1/4 mile and all hell broke loose with the engine, and for those that mentioned it, it was a change of underpants job, engine going at full revs, shut throttle off, NOTHING, pull out stop lever, NOTHING, now panic sets in Judi runs and hides in the back of the boat, I go into Spike Milligan Mode, "what am I gonna do now, I lift the engine cover in the front cabin check throttle cable in case it's stuck/broke all ok, luckily it stopped by itself I presume it used up the contents of the sump, the mechanic that took the pump out did say it's the worst leak he has ever seen, which surprised him and me as there were no warning sign whatever that it was leaking, it seems the seal had more or less disintegrated, so JTF's question would an oil change make a longish distance? how long is a piece of string? if it's only a slight leak you might make it, but after how quick mine went, I personally wouldn't risk it and get a tow back, Oil Changes! I've always checked mine in the marina before starting out then when out I check it every day before setting off, so I'm pretty anal about checking my oil and it still bit me in the bum, so it can happen to any of us at any time, I wouldn't loose any sleep over it happening, at least here we are aware of the potential problem and things we can do to help prevent it happening and if your brave enough to block the air intake, just from this thread alone if you read comments made by some of the Pro's it's becoming clear that's it's getting more common now and something we should keep an eye out for,,, Frank,,,,

That's where I've been going wrong then! instead of putting them in a bowl I've been putting them on a string and hitting the Spiders with it,,

So far we have had three runaways in our marina one resulting in a blown engine, Andy from Freedom boating says he replaced three fuel pumps one of them this year, Clive Richo says the problem occurred a couple of seasons ago with older seals in injector pumps not being keen on the new fuel, we were very busy swapping pumps on the old engines, new seals are not affected and neither are the new engines. Andy from Freedom boating also says,The additive was adjusted about 24 months ago in most fuel so it's taken some time to cause seal failures. Obviously, if the boats used more, the degradation is swifter.I have little doubt that we'll be overhauling the remainder of our fleet pumps in the next 12 months and many private owners will be faced with similar bills. check out other Marine sites and you will see the same problems, Check out car sites and it been happening for a few years, type in fuel pump failure with low sulphur diesel and you'll be surprised how common the problem is, In Cars there are hundreds of cases in boats it relatively new, from reading up on it, it mainly affects older engines before 2000, so that means it COULD happen to quite a few boats on the Broads, the whole reason for starting the thread was because it just happened to me, making four in our marina now and I'm facing a bill of something like £400 for repairs, where ever I've checked they are saying low sulphur diesel is the cause, so the whole Idea is to warn people about the problem, symtoms to look out for and tried and tested ways that might help prevent it happening, it's up to the individual if they ignore it or try to help prevent it, for me if my posting helps one person it's done it's job, I wouldn't feel very good if someone here said it happened to them, and I knew about the problem and said nothing, no-one has said your engine will blow up! but the fact is it could if you can't shut your engine down,,,

Awwww! come on Quo! we are boaters, since when did we do anything the easy way,,,

I agree Andy! I've read on a couple of the Diesel car forums of them having to pump in a full 5 kg Co2 extinguisher, sometimes it's worked others it hasn't, blocking the air filter seems the only certain way to stop it,, I think the main thing is that as we are aware of it we can take precautions so it's less likely to happen, either that of have our fuel pumps overhauled and the new seals put in, not the cheapest option if you take the cost and labour charges to do it, but still one hell of a lot cheaper than having to replace a blown engine,, Frank,,,,

OK! don't hit me! BUT, if the trunking is in sections would a draw tape do the job?? wouldn't it find it's way out of a join?? John! you can get them from B&Q it's 20 mts and only £6.38 http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/cable-management/cable_fitting_tools/B-and-Q-Cable-and-Flex-Draw-Tape-Kit-20m-x-7-5-x-2-4cm-12758625?noCookies=false Frank

John! turning the fuel off will work eventually, the problem is that when the pump seals go the pump! pumps diesel straight into the sump, so if you combine the diesel pumped into the tank with the 5ltrs or so of oil in there you potentially have 10ltrs of fuel in your sump, it will burn off quite quickly because the engine will be going at full revs but I think the engine would probably blow before you ran out, so far the only certain ways I can find of stopping the engine are A; Block the air intake, B; Somehow stall the engine, C; Fire a large Co2 extinguisher into the air intake,, 10B, not sure if I've misread your post?? I don't think it's 50p per £100 of diesel for 100 litres of fuel you put in 1/2 litre of 2T Paladin is stop on with his chart but I'll do it again in my measurment's you can buy it from £5 upwards for 1 litre but make sure it's mineral oil, not synthetic or semi synthetic 50 litres of fuel......1/4 litre 2T 100 litres of fuel......1/2 litre 2T 150 litres of fuel......3/4 litre 2T 200 litres of fuel...... 1 litre of 2T Frank,,,,,

John! a little tip, when you tape the end of the cable to the pull through, get a length of rot proof string and tape that to it as well and pull them both through, that way if you ever need to add another cable you just tape it to the string and pull it through, and if you tie another bit of string to the new cable when you pull that through, you always have a ready made pull through string in place,, Frank,,,,

Neil what's the betting that you've heard of someone else doing the same thing, and thought to yourself it will never happen to me! I know I have,,

The time taken to remove the air filter was one of my concerns Paladin, it seems pretty rare for the engine to blow but the thought of having ones head stuck over the engine while trying to take the filter off is a bit too risky for me, think I'd sooner have a blown engine than a blown head, from what your saying it seems the only way to stop the engine is to remove it and block the intake hole, on the up side now we all know the problem by doing regular checks on the oil and making sure we keep an eye on it, adding a bit of two stroke and a drop of Soltron to kill buggers, we may be able to avoid it ever happening, on the dosing of 2T I found while playing that the lid from a 400ml spray can holds 125ml, just the right amount for 25 litres of fuel, Frank,,,,

No Alan! Soltron is only to stop the Diesel buggers, there are quite a few other Diesel bug treatments out there that work, but the Soltron seems to be the one recommended on most of the boating sites, next in line was the Marine 16 but as it's biocidal the bugs can build up immunity to it, whereas the Soltron is non biocidal so it will work all the time, my regime when my boat is back in the water will be using Soltron as directed and adding mineral two stroke at a ratio of 200-1, I shouldn't need the two stroke with my new seals but a bit of extra help won't do any harm,,, Frank,,,,

Gordon! from what I can work out, the low sulphur fuel, has less sulphur and a bit of Biofuel added, the low sulphur shrinks the seals on pumps and stuff because of the lack of oil in it, whereas the old type diesel makes them swell a bit because of the oil in it, so there are two issues with the Low sulphur fuel, it shrinks the seals on pumps and stuff causing leaks and the addition of the Bio (FAME) in it attracts water making it more prone to diesel bug, there are reports the new stuff doesn't store as well as the old diesel and degrades, but I havn't looked into that too much yet as for now it's confusing, some are saying instead of making sure your fuel tank is full to avoid the bug you should empty it, but after looking I found the a product called Soltron can be added to your tank and it stops the bug, Paladin uses it, and a lot of others on Marine sites use it and swear by it, it's just a bug treatment but works better than most because it dissolves any bugs making them so small they pass through the fuel system and get burnt off,,, Soltron is already used by Stena Line Ferries. WP Marine carried out emissions testing and fuel sampling. Test results show how Soltron improved fuel efficiency by 12.7% and reduced emissions by 45%. Soltron produces these results after 42 days of a 65-day trial on the Stena Line Trader, a 212-metre cross channel ferry (26,660t) with four B&W MAN 9l 48/60B engines (KW Horsepower: 2 x 10,800 kW). What is Diesel Bug? What causes Diesel Bug? Diesel bug is a biological contamination that can occur within gas oil. Risk of contamination increases if you attempt to use road diesel in your marine engine. This is because road diesel contains up to 7% FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Ester or Biodiesel). How does Soltron stop Diesel Bug and reduce fuel consumption? Soltron’s enzymes continuously react with Diesel Bug contaminants, converting them back into fuel. Any remaining deposits are broken down into sub-micron sizes that burn off during combustion. During the ignition of fuel, the Soltron enzymes help the diesel to combust so all the fuel burns off. It keeps the fuel particles small so they have lots of combustible oxygen around them. Soltron also speeds up the reaction. Better fuel combustion means less fuel is needed for the same power ­ - so less fuel is used.

I know what you mean Paladin and perhaps one of our experts will comment on it, I didn't consider hydraulic boxes, but when it goes, the engine goes to full revs mine was over the 6000 limit and off the clock, so it would be interesting to see if a hydraulic box could deal with it,,, Frank,,,,,,