Mowjo

Sit at the back of the plane it's safer! you never hear of them reversing into mountains,, I found another one call Finagals Law, it's says,,, "Anything that can go wrong, will—at the worst possible moment." I think Mr Finagle must have owned a boat,,,,, Frank,,,,

Well done Grace! now even your bad days will be good while on the boat, I know there will be other recommendations for Insurance, but I've always used Edward William at Womack, My Hampton 25 cost me £150 a year but you can pay in three instalments if you want and they don't need a survey, I had one claim years ago and they paid up no problem, Frank,,,

Or! you could just put it in neutral, for some reason it was the first thing I did when the revs went mad, I had boats and pontoons on three sides of me in a pretty small space and only managed a slight drift bump to one boat! As the increase in revs is instant, my advice would be slam it in neutral, which I think most would probably do instinctively, the only reason you would pick up speed is if you left it in gear,,, Frank,,,, Apologies Folks, I miss read the above post, and didn't realise you were talking about trying to stall the engine,, would you actually be able to get it in gear with the engine going at full revs?? having never tried it I have no Idea but I think you may do some serious damage if you tried, so over to the experts on that one,,,

As a through and through optimist this is hard for me to say, but I believe in Sods Law in that if something can go wrong the likelihood is! at some point it will, I know from thirty years of boating that I sometimes take chances I really shouldn't, because I'm experienced and I know best, I know that those little jobs that I put off till next time are the ones that catch me out! because I know best, I think we all become complacent with and think it won't happen to us because we know best, what's that saying? familiarity breeds contempt, you can wear your life jacket every time your out, but it's Sods Law the one time you don't is the time you fall in,,, will I change my ways? no because I know best and everything I do in life is taking a chance anyway,,, Frank,,,

Andy and Paladin! your both right! because we know it can happen with older car and marine engines and it's something we should be aware of if we drive an older car or have an older marine engine, as I said from checking it mainly seems to affect diesel engines built before 2000, this isn't fact but from checking most cases with cars running on seem to be the turbo engines and with marine engines it seems to be older engines, engines running on to destruction also seems very rare, again we should be aware it could happen and I presume there are other factors that contribute to this happening like lack of maintenance, wore rings, how much fuel the pump actually pumps into the sump, many things, but as I said it seems very rare for the engine to blow, the good thing is now we are aware of how to shut off a car or marine engine, one fact I do know from my own experience is when it happens it's very scary, and in the end if it does happen each one of us has to decide how brave we are, as stated I have easy access to my engine so if I had known could have easily blocked my air filter off within a minute, if I had a boat where you have to lift floors to get to the engine and actually lean over the engine to block the filter off, I'm not sure I would risk it because of the time and danger involved, I think now knowing of the problem I would make a small access hatch over the air filter, that way at least the rest of the floor would give me some protection and easy access to block the air flow off, at least we know the symptoms to look for via the dipstick, so it may be worth dipping the sump every time we moor up, Frank,,,

Baz! where you been??? David said you were there yesterday playing with your gearbox or something, we didn't go yesterday I'm doing every other day to let the paint fully dry between sanding and filling, got the final minor dings and dents filled and sanded today and was hoping to get a second undercoat on, but had to go to Wroxham and got back just after lunch, by the time I messed about it was a bit late to start painting, so that's now Thursdays job, Saturday, rub down and third undercoat, Monday and Wednesday topcoat days, hopefully it should be ready for back in the pond at the end of next week, and then I start on the topside, we'll be at the yard all the time now so give us a shout when your next down and have your kettle on!!! Regards Frank and Judi,,,

I'm doing a Paladin even though I will have the new seals on my pump when it comes back, I'll be adding two stroke to the diesel and Soltrol in case I get the diesel buggers, I've had a look at some of these air shut off valves and from what I see it's cheaper to have your pump out and overhauled, that is a cure for the over-run, can we prevent it happening??? the general view is yes! by adding 2 stroke to your fuel, I've been reading stuff that goes back ten years on Car, Boat, Tractor and many other forums and the majority swear by it, but if your seals are worn it can still happen even with 2 stroke because fuel will still enter the sump and dilute to oil to fuel, so we know 2 stoke is an aid not a cure, we also know how to shut the engine down by blocking the air filter, and Professor Paladin is on that case, I still think the hard rubber ball on a rope kept in the engine bay is the way to go as it's round and the air intake will suck it in tight shutting the air off, but now I have a but!!! we have an air filter on our engines and trust me if your engine goes the last thing you will want to do is mess about taking the filter off, because the chances are it's held on with a jubilee clip, and that means finding a screw driver, taking it off and having something to hand to block the intake and by that time if your unlucky your engine would have gone bang and there's a real chance you could be hurt as well, so plan B! something to go around the air filter while it's still in place, my filter is the chrome and mesh type so I just need something a couple of inches wide that is flexible, fairly air tight, and quick, maybe be a slice of old rubber innertube cut a couple of inches wide making a big wide rubber band you could just slip over the filter,you could just hang it in the engine bay in case of emergency,, Frank,,

OK! spoken to Clive Richo and he said their fuel is plain old Red diesel, so far it seems the ones listed below are FAME free, Richardsons, Moonfleet, Boulter's, Frank,,,,,

Andy! I'd use the Wife's Bra but I only want to cover the air intake not the whole boat,, Strow! I agree from what I read it mainly affects Diesel engines built before 2000, , as you say it's on the VW site, Mercedes, Porsche, and John Deere, just to mention a few, so it seems it's more common than we think,,, I did see on one site that it mentions carrying a small Co2 extinguisher and firing it into the air intake as it starves it of air, and I think Gordon mentions it as well,, Frank,,,,,

Andy! I hate sensible answers like yours:clap and I totally agree with what you say, but you know us boaters if it ain't broke we don't fix it, so it's nice to have some way of shutting it down if it does, to be honest the engine bay on my Hampton 25 has easy access as it in the cabin and just means lifting a seat panel off, but even knowing how to stop it running on, I'm not so sure I would hang about in the cabin in case the worst happened, I'm pretty brave but my legs are cowards and would run, if on a boat like an Elysian where you have to lift the floor for engine access, put you head over an engine that could explode while your trying to block the intake, I'm afraid it would be goodbye boat hello insurance, I might be brave but I'm not stupid, I'm with you! prevention is better than cure, so my pump re-build at £150+ is money well spent,,

I think I have an Idea that may work inspired by my Dog, It's called an Airball, I just found one of her old play balls it's around the size of a tennis ball and solid hard rubber, my Idea is drill a hole right through it, put a piece of rope through the hole, and hang it in the engine bay where it's easy to get at, instant air tight plug, sorted,,, Frank,,,

Alan! I would think under normal circumstances you would get some warning, the classic symptom seems to be rising oil on the dipstick that is thinner than normal with an added smell of diesel, in my case I think what happened was even though I checked the oil before starting out, the boat hadn't been started for a couple of months and the seal had failed or perished in that time, if I had started it then checked the oil I'm sure I would have seen the rise on the dipstick, when we got towed back to our pontoon the sump was empty, I refilled it with oil and ran the engine for 20 seconds just to make sure nothing was seized and in that short time the sump filled with diesel so that's how bad my leak was, I don't think it's anything to overly worry about, but something we should all be aware of so we can check for it, and know how to stop it if the engine does run on, because that run on at full revs will scare the C**p out of anyone,, Frank,,

Hi 10b, if what I read is correct and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong or even add some better info, the problem is that when the injector pump seal goes, the pump actually pumps diesel into the sump, turning the contents of the sump into fuel by diluting the oil, it becomes so thin that it by-passes the pistons and causes the run on by using the oil and fuel mix from the sump, meaning the engine will run on until you starve the engine of air or you have used the contents of the sump, even the engine pull stop has no effect as will turning the fuel supply off, the danger is that when it happens the engine goes to full revs and will usually blow something before the sump is empty, if your lucky you may notice your oil level going up and becoming very thin, in my case it happened in less than 1/4 mile with no warning until it ran on, I checked my oil before setting off, and when I got to our pump out pontoon the engine just went mad, so no warning until it actually happened in my case,, Regards Frank,,,, Paladin beat me to it by seconds, but what he said anyway,,

You must have read my mind Paladin, just been checking all the Boating sites and the Soltron come's highly recommended, and as I'm only 15 minutes from ASAP I'll be investing in some, as for trouble free! it's always a "what if" situation and you never know until you "don't" of course you also have the "should have" and that's worse than the "don't" because you know! it would have worked if you did! and that's the reason I'm always confused,, Frank,,,,

Just been checking on some of the boating sites and there seem to be a lot more reports of it causing diesel bug as well, the F.A.M.E attracts water causing the bug, this just gets better,,, Frank,,,

Your right Strow and Paladin, I've mega searched the net to try and find the actual source of the info, the nearest I can find is on the Mercedes forum but again it's unconfirmed, it's said that Merc tested it on some of their cars due to the iffy diesel you can get abroad, but if you type in "low sulphur diesel fuel problems" the facts speak for themselves, the pump seals and adding a bit of two stroke to help the problem seems widely known even on the YBW site, it just seems no-one has told us lot here on the Broads, also the fact we have had three go in our yard resulting in one completely destroyed engine, I think Andy mentioned he has had three, Clive Richo mentions they have been swapping the pumps on their older boats is enough to say there's a problem, so far the only info I can find on curing it is have your pump re-built and they should fit it with the new seals for low sulphur fuel or add the bit of mineral two stroke at 200 - 1, my pump is away for a re-build so should have the new ones, Frank,,,,

It's a subject that's been bugging me mark, I found out that Mercedes actually recommend adding a bit of two stroke to their diesels in some countries, and as it a German manufacturer that did the testing I can only think Merc, though it is mentioned on the Porsch site, from what I can work out it mainly effects Pre 2000 engines, so that's around half the boats on the Broads it could affect, the other thing I found out is that if you have your pump refurbished or buy an exchange unit from a reputable place the seals they now fit are made for the low sulphur fuels, one of the main reasons I started this post, wasn't because of the problem it was how to deal with the fact I had no idea how to shut the engine down, I don't scare easily but it scared the C**p out of me! now I know all you need to do is starve the engine of air by blocking the air filter, but a word of warning because I read some bad stuff, NEVER block it with rag if the air filter is off, the engine can suck it in and eat it causing even more damage, and NEVER block it with your hand, they didn't say why but the guy ended up in hospital with serious damage to his hand,, Frank,,,,

A bit more Info I found!! Effects of 2t oil added to diesel engines. Due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negative impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump. The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with Teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphur contained) diesel. The engine-research centre of a well-known German car manufacturer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money! BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homeopathic doses of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70lt diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors. Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burns cleaner as the diesel itself. In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clog, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less. in Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongst others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines. The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95. The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles. Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the mileage by 3-5%. Frank,,,,,,

The only problems I've ever seen were caused by over aggressive boat owners that seem to have forgot they the were young once, if I see a group I usually try to have a little chat with them, and ask the usually how you enjoying it, then if they get a bit out of hand, I'll approach with a smile and ask them politely to keep it down a bit, and find they usually do and will say sorry, last year at Wroxham there was a boatload of drunken young guys that were messing about, the Private guy moored a few boats from us came out swearing and shouting at them, and being young they did it even more, Mr private threatened to punch one guys lights out, just as a guy appeared from inside the boat who must have been 6ft 6in and built like a brickhouse, never seen anyone shut up and disappear so quickly, I went and spoke to them and laughed about it, told them all us privates weren't like that, but if they could keep it down a bit everyone would be happy and they would get left alone, we never heard another word from them, next morning they were asking me the best places with pubs, quite good because I don't drink, I gave them the few I know and off the went with a wave, we saw them a few times during the week, and I found out one was a Doctor, a couple were in Law and most of the other were at Uni or just finished, not Yobs just a group of young guys having a break and a good time, I always say with the right approach and a smile you can calm near any situation Frank,,

Andy! I hope they have strong hearts if it happens and a change of underpants, it scared the crap out of me, I think it was the not knowing how to stop the engine and waiting for a big bang and even bigger repair bill,,,, Frank,,,,,

Andy! with your three and the three in our marina it sounds like it's more common than I thought, your preventative measures and symptoms are spot on, I my case it all happened within 1/4 mile from the time I left our mooring to getting round the Dyke to the pump out, with no warning signs at all until the engine screamed and I couldn't shut it down, I ran around like a headless chicken and the wife ran out the back, I actually checked my oil and water before I even started the boat, and the oil was spot on the stick and not thinned at all, so it was very sudden with no warnings, it emptied the sump of oil and when we got back to the marina, I put in the two litres I had to hand and quickly turned the engine over to move the oil, yesterday when we got to the boat for some reason I checked the oil again and it was well past the Full mark, and very thin I thought it may be water as there was no smell of diesel, even the Mechanic mentioned it, when he finally got the pump off he upended it and it came past the seal like someone turned a tap on, so it's gone to be reconditioned, the other thing I noticed was that my diesel had dropped by over five litres so I presume all that was pumped into the sump, Frank,,,,

Found it! adding 2 stroke oil to the diesel. ratio of 1;200 must be the normal stuff not synthetic or semi,,

Thanks Mark! now you mention it I remember something about adding a bit of two stroke, just can't remember where or how much to add,, Frank,,,,

That's a good price Dave! cheapest I got quoted was £349,,, Frank,,,,,

Just an add on! I found this site that has more about it,,,, http://www.canaljunction.com/boat/diesel_fuel.htm