An old wooden beauty... 1B

[Hockham Admiral]

Just taken this pic at the WRC. what is she?

[jillR]

hi john

her name is/was widgeon

http://www.horning.org.uk/boatsearch.ph ... age=search

i think craig would like a copy of that picture for the data base.

jill

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

I think, though i may be wrong, that "Widgeon" may have been one of a class of 3. I can remember back in June 8th or 9th 1970, we moored the Aston Orion behind the Widgeon where the BA free moorings are above Wroxham railway bridge. When i checked in the Hoseasons catalogue we had on board, there were 3 boats in the same class called, Kingfisher, Teal, and Widgeon, and were the same as the boat moored in front of us. However, that was over 40 years ago, and don`t remember seeing a fwd cockpit on the one we saw, so it may NOT be the same boat. It would be great if it was though?. Nice photo of her too. Regards to all ................. Neil.

[AdnamsGirl]

Widgeon was built by J.Loynes & Sons in the 1950s .... as far as I am aware there was just one of them. She was 20 feet in length with a 7ft 6" beam (see brochure entry from 1969 below). She was up for sale for ages a couple of years ago having supposedly undergone a full restoration with just finishing to the interior needed. The price kept going down, and down, and at one point we were sorely tempted! Looking at her out of the water now she appears to be in need of some TLC! She is a little cutie though!

There were two of the Kingfisher class listed in Blakes 1969 brochure, also built by Loynes but an earlier boat (built just before WW2) - a little center cockpit cruiser at 22 feet in length with an 8ft beam.

Both classes seem to have disappeared from the Loynes fleet listed in Blakes brochures by 1971.

Carol

[goodall_m1]

Carol,

Looking at those photos from the 1969 brochure

I have just noticed that both Widgeon and Kingfisher are flying the red ensign.

Was this normal among the hirefleets at that time?

Nowadays it is one of my standard signs of a boat being private,

I don't think an ensign comes in the inventory of any of the current hire fleets.

I know that a number of hire yards used to fit their boats out with their house burgees,

another tradition which has gone by the board.

Martin

[AdnamsGirl]

Hi Martin

That's a very good point and I hadn't actually noticed the ensigns on the back when sorting out the brochure entries. Having had a quick scan back through that particular brochure most of the hire fleets are shown without ensigns with the exception of the Loynes fleet and some of the Powells and Woods boats.

I would have said that they were probably just added for the staged brochure photos, but having checked through the 1960s gallery pages on BM I have come across one photograph of a hire boat displaying an ensign ... and it is another of Loynes fleet "Loch Ness" pictured at Horning in 1965. Scroll down to the second photo from the bottom on this page:

http://www.broadlandmemories.co.uk/page178.html

It is the only photo I have found though, so how common it was in the 1960s I'm not sure. I believe that I have seen older photographs where hire craft appeared to be flying ensigns, and in the 1930s Woods had their own "Light Cruisers" blue and white ensign flying from the back of their hire craft. There were a fabulous array of boatyard burgees over the years - in the days when boats seemed to have just been sign written with their reg number and name (possibly location too)it was the way to tell which yard the boat belonged to! These days the hire fleets are usually plastered with the boatyards name in large letters .... and I suspect if burgees were added that they would be pinched!!

Carol

[goodall_m1]

Hi Martin

That's a very good point and I hadn't actually noticed the ensigns on the back when sorting out the brochure entries. Having had a quick scan back through that particular brochure most of the hire fleets are shown without ensigns with the exception of the Loynes fleet and some of the Powells and Woods boats.

I would have said that they were probably just added for the staged brochure photos, but having checked through the 1960s gallery pages on BM I have come across one photograph of a hire boat displaying an ensign ... and it is another of Loynes fleet "Loch Ness" pictured at Horning in 1965. Scroll down to the second photo from the bottom on this page:

http://www.broadlandmemories.co.uk/page178.html

It is the only photo I have found though, so how common it was in the 1960s I'm not sure. I believe that I have seen older photographs where hire craft appeared to be flying ensigns, and in the 1930s Woods had their own "Light Cruisers" blue and white ensign flying from the back of their hire craft. There were a fabulous array of boatyard burgees over the years - in the days when boats seemed to have just been sign written with their reg number and name (possibly location too)it was the way to tell which yard the boat belonged to! These days the hire fleets are usually plastered with the boatyards name in large letters .... and I suspect if burgees were added that they would be pinched!!

Carol

Looking down that page of photos I noticed that in one Broadsventure 12 was shown with its Richardson's pennant on the bow and in the next photo the young lad is seen waving it. Possible souvenir?

I wonder though how well known the company pennants were?

I suppose that hirer's might recognise boats from their own yard, and probably the "locals" would know those from other yards.

A red pennant with a white cross? Which yard is that boat from? Oh thats one of Richardson's.

I see that Richardsons are marketing pin badges of their pennant but with their R logo superimposed in the centre of the cross.

Probably the closest today's customers get to seeing a pennant.

In 40 years time will some interested person be looking through photos taken in 2010 and wondering what the flag is flying from Fair Freedom?

Ok lets give them some help with a closer shot...

[loribear]

hi all that takes me back to when i was a youngster, it seemt to feel like the broads with wooden boats on it, & i used to love the smell of those wooden boats, i know fibreglass is stronger but it does'nt seem the same somehow, but talking of flags, we went with astons & they used to have their own little flag on the front of their boats, it was black with red on the edge & a letter A in the middle, lori

[Hockham Admiral]

Widgeon was built by J.Loynes & Sons in the 1950s .... as far as I am aware there was just one of them. She was 20 feet in length with a 7ft 6" beam (see brochure entry from 1969 below). She was up for sale for ages a couple of years ago having supposedly undergone a full restoration with just finishing to the interior needed. The price kept going down, and down, and at one point we were sorely tempted! Looking at her out of the water now she appears to be in need of some TLC! She is a little cutie though! Carol

Carol. Hi

Here's what James had to say when I sent him the old brochure earlier today:

thanks for this John

lovely boat, but she keeps sinking :-(

she needs quite a bit spending on the hull as she's sadly been bodged a few times

James

--

[Morris Man]

Evening all,

this looks like a Water Gypsy like this one on Craig's site http://www.horning.org.uk/boatsearch.ph ... current=no

Robin.

[BuffaloBill]

Water Gypsy A304 is sitting on hard standing next to our boat after sinking

in the cold spell after Christmas. She is being repaired albeit slowly, and may

take several months to complete as there are lots of rotten segments below

the water line which the frost may have blown. At least she is on her way

back and will look good when she's painted again.

[Hockham Admiral]

[attachment=1]widgeon_blakes69.jpg[/attachment]

Carol

Just been sniffing around 1B and she's definitely an aft steering boat which looks original... this doesn't tie in with the diagram...

[AdnamsGirl]

It's an odd one isn't it? I need to double check whether this is definately the same boat which was for sale a couple of years ago - sadly, I didn't keep the details but I know a man who might have them lurking on his computer still! I'll also speak to Craig when he's back from his holiday.

I seem to remember that it was initially advertised as being a Powles boat and I assumed it was a Water Gypsy. Craig had it listed as being Widgeon and I talked to him about it at the time looking for more info. The 1B registration number doesn't correspond with the reg numbers he has listed for any of the Water Gypsys. I can't read what the reg number is on the brochure entry but it also doesn't look like 1B. I do remember that it had aft steering which didn't tie in with the original layout so assumed that it must have been altered at some point ..... I didn't actually go and look at the boat itself when it was for sale, but if you think it all looks original then maybe this is one of the Water Gypsys. There seem to have been no reported sightings of at least a couple of them after the 1980s - could one have possibly moved to another waterway, been renamed and was then given a new reg number when she returned?

The Water Gypsy's were listed as being slightly larger than Widgeon at 24ft in length with an 8ft 9" beam ... if you are still at the WRC John could you just pop over there with a tape measure please?

I wonder whether there may be any identifying marks remaining inside, on drawer bottoms etc? Widgeon and Water Gypsy were quite similar looking boats, but the windows on the Water Gypsys look rather different. Could you possibly get a few more photos, especially a side on view?

Carol

[Hockham Admiral]

Carol, Hi

Sorry but we left the WRC for another cruise early on today; perhaps if James is viewing this thread he might help?

[AdnamsGirl]

Ok .... my "man" came up trumps and sent me the original sale details and accompanying photos and this is definately Widgeon and not a Water Gypsy. Obviously, I can't post the photos I have on here, but there are significant differences in the design of the two (not only the size). It was first advertised for sale at £6,500 in September 2007 and the price kept dropping over subsequent months. The listing stated that it had been restored by a boat builder and, as mentioned earlier, needed some work to finish fitting out the interior although all the equipment was included. It finally ended up on Ebay in August 2008 at £4,000. The seller did list it as being a Loynes boat, built in 1952 and 20ft in length.

The aft steering must indeed have been a later modification.

Carol