Perkins engine

[Naijan]

Hi

We are coming to the end of our total boat refit of our Kent class 28 motor.s and it's time to look for the engine.

Our original unit is Perkins 4107 which was working (just)before we started renovation.

Engine is in very bad shape was flooded before we got it (however was still working)

Heat exchanger is corroded and lose all the coolant, alternator, starter and all outside wiring is in bad shape.....not even sure if this engine would be worth sending for rebuild.

We are looking for replacing it with same 4107 or 4108 as this would be a straight swap.

I was searching online and i can't find anything, wonder if someone know some suppliers?

Thank you.

[ExUserGone]

If you are changing the engine put something more up to date in, it'll be much easier to get spares at a later date and much smoother/quieter.

[MBA Marine]

Tend to agree if your changing it then get a more up to date engine, if this is not affordable then may as well refurb the old one.

[C.Ricko]

not my favorite engine but all the bits are still available for the 4.108 and htey will just about always start even if they run like a bag of sh1te.

realistically the only modern alternative is a kubota in whatever guise.

the best way to keep cost down would probably be have a go with the engine you have got but try and find either a Polar or Bowman manifold (preferably Bowman to work on) or a replacement engine with the right manifold, your bellhousing, flywheel and drive plate should fit and will therefore fit your old gearbox, engine feet will also be the same.

if you want a new engine thats a different matter.

[diesel falcon]

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/inbo ... l-PAA57971

http://www.parts4engines.com/index.php? ... b15b16ca26

and from the good old usa......tech support....http://www.foleyengines.com/resources/t ... ides-again

[Naijan]

We have decided we will stick to recon 4108 they seems to be bulletproof when they are looked after.

If i may ask another question..........as i said we have completely gutted the boat, all the partitions are new kitchen and bathroom are in different place. We have installed holding tank around 140l and all the waste from toilet, kitchen and shower going in the tank now. Boat originally have had this massive diesel oven/cooker which has been removed I'm left with two holes now which were originally drains for toilet and kitchen sink water.

What you suggest for patching them?

Should i slowly fibreglass them(what's the best method?), or should i fit brass trough hull fittings and cap them somehow?

[diesel falcon]

hi,

i ,d put a new skin fitting through the holes,small length of hose and a plug the hose , that,s of coarse if you can,t see them,you never know you migh t want an outlet in future ,for say another bilge pump for example

[Naijan]

No you can't see them, they are both under the bunk seat, i think i need something more permanent, it's very unlike that they will be ever used again for anything.

[MBA Marine]

Why would you want to pipe the sink wastes into you holding tank? do you really like going in for pump outs?

[Naijan]

I don't know yet what to do with gray water, we want to do canal du midi in near future.

All those waste water regs seems to be so confusing.

[MBA Marine]

I don't know yet what to do with gray water, we want to do canal du midi in near future.

All those waste water regs seems to be so confusing.

I Know the Kent quite well, and you not going to pipe grey water from the shower tray direct to a box as there is not room below, you could use a shower sump pump to pump to holding tank, or not my favorite drian it direct into the bilge.

Im a little confused as you said you were draining "kitchen" or galley to most to the holding tank? Most boat drain galley sink straight out through the hull, and the stupidly expensive yachts i used to build we piped them with a pump direct out with a pump below the water line (you dont need a pump to do that but it drains really slow without!) they went all over the world.

Back to the engine, do you have it in mind to create a dedicated bilge area or sump oil tray under the engine? its a boat safety requirement, if not and you have automatic bilge pump you will need a filter on the outlet to prevent accidental pollution.

[Naijan]

Yes you are right, there is no way for the shower tray to self drain and we will use a use a shower sump pump to dispose of the water. The question is, should we pump it out to the holding tank or outside the boat?

We have send a few emails to people who operate on the canal du midi about the local water disposal regs and are awaiting for answers.

Back to the engine, as you know Kents have not much space under the engine and the bilge is small and very awkward - so i guess a filter on the outlet is the only option. What sort of filter would you recommend for that?

[MBA Marine]

Someone else may jump in before i get back with answers I cant recall the exact titles but Vetus do a filter, also you can get one in aquafax nothing to special about the filters just the element/cartridge inside.

As your engine is out or coming out its a perfect opportunity to add limber tubes so that areas you want to drain still drain but you seal up under the engine to hold all leakage, yes its tight in the Kent but im sure its do-able. the filters are a pain in the butt, they are quickly clogged then the bilge pump does not function!

I would not dump Grey water into your Black water (toilet) tank as you will just fill it up far too quickly, if you need to hold it on board then pipe to a separate tank this can be set up with a float switch and pump, if your in waters that you can dump it then have it switched on, if you not then switch of till you either can dump overboard or have it pumped out.

[ExUserGone]

If grey water storage is required for just one waterway fit a diverter valve so it can go overboard or to blackwater tank, saves pumpouts when on other waterways.

My sea toilet is fitted with diverter so works either way, also setup so tank can be pumped back out through seacock when at sea.

[Naijan]

Does this make any sense?

This drawing have shower directed to holding tank this will be changed, also a vent from the tank is missing.

We have heard from people operating on canal du midi all of them saying that most of the boats there don't even have a holding tanks.

I think if we do everything to UK standards this will be sufficient.

[MBA Marine]

It makes sense but again the shower tray may as well be discharged straight overboard as its just filling up the holding tank, there is not room on the kent for a overly big tank so putting in as little as you need too would make sense.

Im sure you already have a seacock for a sea toilet dump so as has been mentioned pipe the toilet with a diverter valve, then when your at sea you can discharge directly overboard, thus not filling your tank, also when pumping toilet nasties to tank if you get in the habit of (if you have a manual toilet) flicking the lever to pump dry then flick to add some water you fill not unnecessarily fill the tank with water. You could again as has been said use diverter valve for the shower and other grey water.

One last thing the toilet intake needs an antisifon (or anti siphon spelling is not a stong point!) As you heel over you would not want to fill the boat with water!

[Naijan]

Ok here is a latest edition.

[MauriceMynah]

Sorry but are you saying that's what you've got, or what you want.

If it's what you want, it won't work. If t's what you've got...I'm wrong!

PS, how long have you owned this boat? I just wondered if it was Mr Mackenzies Kent class I nearly bought (but didn't as I'm too lazy to sail)

[Naijan]

Sorry but are you saying that's what you've got, or what you want.

If it's what you want, it won't work. If t's what you've got...I'm wrong!

PS, how long have you owned this boat? I just wondered if it was Mr Mackenzies Kent class I nearly bought (but didn't as I'm too lazy to sail)

This is what i think i want, we got this boat since 3 or so years

Why this set up wont work?

[MBA Marine]

I would expect your toilet to have its own pump be it manual or a electric macerator.

A macerator pump there will not suck up from the shower tray, Nor would you want use it for the shower, your shower pump should be somthing that will not hurt if it runs dry, so a diaphragm pump such as a 'whale gulper pump' would be ideal. piped from bottom of tray though pump then to diverter valve, from one branch or the divert to holding tank, the other branch piped over board or if your discharging low down and the outlet is likely to be submerged then antisiphon loop before the outlet.

I really do not recommend putting your grey water from your shower into your black water tank, you are likely to have a heads (shower room) smelling like a sewerage works!

Your trying to link your drainage systems together in your plan, this will end up a mistake.

[MauriceMynah]

The water from your shower tray goes up a pipe and reaches the first of the "Diverter valves" What is this valve exactly? what options does it have? and have you seen one?

I'm just wondering if you've done something I have done quite often. Work out what you need and then assume it exists.

Also, the input to the black water tank should never be the output from that tank. You have the shower water going into the tank in the same pipe as the pumpout sucks it out.

I'm reminded of first lyrics of "Let's face the music and dance"

"THERE MAY BE TROUBLE AHEAD"

[Naijan]

The water from your shower tray goes up a pipe and reaches the first of the "Diverter valves" What is this valve exactly? what options does it have? and have you seen one?

I'm just wondering if you've done something I have done quite often. Work out what you need and then assume it exists.

Also, the input to the black water tank should never be the output from that tank. You have the shower water going into the tank in the same pipe as the pumpout sucks it out.

I'm reminded of first lyrics of "Let's face the music and dance"

"THERE MAY BE TROUBLE AHEAD"

Thats what i mean by diverter valve http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Y-VALVE-38mm- ... 3ccba11822

If you look on the plan there is no way how shower water can go to the tank.

[Naijan]

Ok let me explain what was i thinking about in this setup.

I wanted (which seems to be impossible from what you are saying), to use the same hull fitting for shower and waste tank pump out, and the same pump.

I didn't wanted to put gray shower water to the waste tank (which will be physically impossible in this setup) that's why pump is located where it is.

Loop between two diverter valves marked with "1" will go higher(bad drawing)

I thought that using these two diverter valves you can created two completely sealed from each other circuits.

If you want to pump out holding tank through the deck you turn diverter valve "a" to position cutting off the rest.

If you want to Pump out to the sea you turn valve "a" to cut out the deck and then turn "b" to cut out the shower.

Because pump is located where it is (plus diverter valve)there is no way you can suck waste to the shower tray, also shower pipe will have inline non-return valve.

I don't know about smell transferring to the heads in this setup, holding tank will be behind 2 diverter valves and inline non-returning valve.

Question for this set up to ever work(if), is there a pump versatile enough to be used for shower and holding tank pump out. If not perhaps for this to work use two pumps one between diverter valves "a" and "b" for empting the tanks and one for shower before the diverter valve "b"(on shower pipe)but doing that you risk accidently pumping waste to the shower or gray water to the tank. As i said before all thinking behind was to use same skin fitting i don't want to drill more holes.

[MBA Marine]

The water from your shower tray goes up a pipe and reaches the first of the "Diverter valves" What is this valve exactly? what options does it have? and have you seen one?

I'm just wondering if you've done something I have done quite often. Work out what you need and then assume it exists.

Also, the input to the black water tank should never be the output from that tank. You have the shower water going into the tank in the same pipe as the pumpout sucks it out.

I'm reminded of first lyrics of "Let's face the music and dance"

"THERE MAY BE TROUBLE AHEAD"

A 'L' port diverter pipes one pipe simply one way or another. A 'T' port divert valve pipes one way only or both ways. you could think or it as a set of points on a railway line sending the train down one track or another. The 'T' port is a bit different and the train will probably crash!

[MBA Marine]

Ok let me explain what was i thinking about in this setup.

I wanted (which seems to be impossible from what you are saying), to use the same hull fitting for shower and waste tank pump out, and the same pump.

I didn't wanted to put gray shower water to the waste tank (which will be physically impossible in this setup) that's why pump is located where it is.

Loop between two diverter valves marked with "1" will go higher(bad drawing)

I thought that using these two diverter valves you can created two completely sealed from each other circuits.

If you want to pump out holding tank through the deck you turn diverter valve "a" to position cutting off the rest.

If you want to Pump out to the sea you turn valve "a" to cut out the deck and then turn "b" to cut out the shower.

Because pump is located where it is (plus diverter valve)there is no way you can suck waste to the shower tray, also shower pipe will have inline non-return valve.

I don't know about smell transferring to the heads in this setup, holding tank will be behind 2 diverter valves and inline non-returning valve.

Question for this set up to ever work(if), is there a pump versatile enough to be used for shower and holding tank pump out. If not perhaps for this to work use two pumps one between diverter valves "a" and "b" for empting the tanks and one for shower before the diverter valve "b"(on shower pipe)but doing that you risk accidently pumping waste to the shower or gray water to the tank. As i said before all thinking behind was to use same skin fitting i don't want to drill more holes.

Ok, yes the plan works, but I would have your macerator sucking from its own standpipe in tank put as long as your pump can prime its self that distance it will work your way, the shower needs its own pump, and i would still pipe the shower and basin out the side of the hull, the fittings are already in your boat as you have asked about filling them up. then your 2nd divert valve can be removed.