Blakes branding

[LondonRascal]

I have to admit why I like Waterways Holidays - is something Richardson's website lost - what boat in a class would you be getting...Take Magic Gem, you can put in the dates on Waterways Holidays website and it will then show which boat number that booking would get you.

This is handy if you've been on a boat before, for example Magic Gem 2 and would like that one again. As I say, Richardson's Website also used to give this information when you proceeded to book, Hoseasons website never has.

However when it comes down to booking - whoever the yard - I would always book direct with the yard.

[Dan]

...However when it comes down to booking - whoever the yard - I would always book direct with the yard.

Hi Robin

I see this a lot, but booking through an agent can offer some benefits. I often used to book my Richardsons holiday at a travel agent through Hoseasons because I had some Thomas Cook vouchers that I had either won through work promotions or bought cheap off an internet auction site!

More recently I sometimes used to still book through the agent because I decided on my holiday in my leisure time, which has nearly always been in evenings and until fairly recently some of the companies I liked didn't have online reservations (this seems strange to think of today, but it was not that long ago really) and I did not want to call the following day, or was not able to due to being in work, so the added convenience the agent then offered won the business.

If truth be told, if it were not for a loyalty scheme of booking direct I may still be doing it that way as they never gave me reason to be unhappy. I feel the service has diminished in recent years though, as I think everything going online has reduced the expertise on hand. When I rang up to make a reservation to be told they would not be letting that particular boat (something I knew to be completely wrong but they were not prepared to enquire further) and I should ring the operator direct (A suggestion I was rather disgusted by as sending a paying customer away from your business un-necessarily seems rather shameful to me!)... so I did and decided they would be unlikely to get any more of my business if I had to fight them to give them my money. Still, as with all businesses you are only really ever as good as the staff you employ.

I think the agent still has some benefits. There have been threads on here recently about businesses closing or withdrawing a service & people worrying about their holiday and/or their cash. This worry would be a lot less and options a lot greater with a (half reputable) agent involved. Indeed when an operator refused my booking several years ago for rather baffling/shameful (even to the agent!) reasons they worked hard for me to find me an alternative holiday.

Also although some have moaned about Hoseasons TV advert & the time of coverage the boats got who else is doing TV advertising? Or has an advertising budget/spend close to their scale?

Whilst the world has changed there is still a place for agents, perhaps the fees they can fairly command is less, and perhaps their stronghold and place has changed somewhat because yes, the difference they can make to your reservation charts from going alone or with internet only agents (such as Waterways) is certainly different or less powerful to how the world was in say 1989, or the pre internet era.

Dan

P.S Hoo-ray hoo-ray it's your Hoseasons Hol-i-day

[Dan]

A few more thoughts...

Another angle to think of is that Herbert Woods were with one of the big agents until a couple of years ago.

They would probably be a good case study for whether agents still have a place, especially as a large fleet.

Since this decision has the fleet been able to let as well or almost as well as before? What have we since this decision?

Extreme discounting including 50% off Summer Holidays sticks in my mind and gives a lot of clues and raises several thoughts (unless they were just drunk or feeling generous?), though it must be remembered they are still not fully independent as they are using Waterways Holidays still. Without that agent what else would we have seen or what would the success level be?

Does independence offer success and ok booking charts or in quieter spells could it contribute towards panic, un-maintable short term offers that help cash flow & survive this year but de-stabilise the long term security of the industry... it all depends how much demand is there I suspect, but I think getting the bookings is perhaps not as easy as it may first appear, but perhaps if a yard is to focus heavily on a good website, regularly updated, be all over pricing permantly as well as doing a whole mass of other things you probably could get by without an agent but I reckon it would be hard, especially at the minute, but perhaps over a longer period some years where demand is stronger could be ok.

Dan

[minor2011]

Remember though since going it alone as it were Herbert Woods have added some very attractive cruisers to their fleet. If business was that bad surely they wouldn't be able to afford to build new boats to such a high spec would they?

[Oddfellow]

Waterways Holidays is not an agent in the sense that we think of Blakeseasons.

In effect, they are an introducer and an effective one at that.

Therefore, independence really should be taken to mean that there's no Blakesseasons on the booking horizon. I certainly don't consider Herbert Woods to be non-independent any more than I would see Martham Boats as non-independent.

[Dan]

Remember though since going it alone as it were Herbert Woods have added some very attractive cruisers to their fleet. If business was that bad surely they wouldn't be able to afford to build new boats to such a high spec would they?

I wasn't trying to say they were necessarily in a mess, just that they would be interesting to look at to see how easy it was to lose a big agent and go it alone, with Waterways alone onboard other than their own efforts.

I suspect it is possible to not need them, but not by any stretch of the imigination easy, especially if you were truly relying on your own efforts with no other external agents/introducer or whatever you call them's help

Dan

[Dan]

Waterways Holidays is not an agent in the sense that we think of Blakeseasons.

In effect, they are an introducer and an effective one at that.

Therefore, independence really should be taken to mean that there's no Blakesseasons on the booking horizon. I certainly don't consider Herbert Woods to be non-independent any more than I would see Martham Boats as non-independent.

Or is this just a more convenient way to group them?

To me they are just a newer, more viable and much less costly alternative to the previous offerings, that has come about through the changing times the internet has brought and the ability to offer a different service with much reduced overheads and therefore small fees to the operator as no brochures, no TV adverts etc but one central place to book and I am sure occasional visitors particularly may well use this site each time, much in the way at one time they may have always picked a Hoseasons fleet. It has also made it viable to run one/two/three boats which a tie up with Blakes/Hoseasons would at one time have made quite un-viable.

It is a bit of a different ball game to Blakes/Hoseasons, undoubtedly, I fully agree, but I suspect without them some of the fleets represented by them would not be able to continue or would run a smaller fleet or have a different structure (repairs, moorings but no hireboats?) so I think really they are an agency of sorts, but it certainly does show what could be offered at a much lesser cost and as an alternative to going with one of the big two that was probably your options twenty years ago.

Dan

[Hockham Admiral]

It has also made it viable to run one/two/three boats which a tie up with Blakes/Hoseasons would at one time have made quite un-viable.

Now that's a very good point, Dan. I've often wondered just how you might start a new 2-3 boat hire business with all the overheads you might incur.

[Broads01]

Well I've been quiet on this since I started the thread and a lengthy discussion has certainly ensued! Maybe discussing the value of agencies is one of those things there's no right or wrong answer on - everyone has a different view. My view is the value of agencies as a broad subject has certainly diminished from the pre-internet world of not that many years ago. However, they still exist so there's money to be made it seems.

I think the original idea behind this thread hasn't yet been discussed a great deal. That's to say, within the broader context of the agency role, is having a 'B' on a red flag still worth something?

[Oddfellow]

Back on topic, it is likely that the Blakes brand when it comes to boating is not hugely important to Wyndham else there would not have been a move to amalgamate the brochures.

Back off topic, running a small fleet of 2/3 boats requires a staggering amount of effort and resources and the economies of scale simply aren't there.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Back off topic, running a small fleet of 2/3 boats requires a staggering amount of effort and resources and the economies of scale simply aren't there.

While i would agree with you regarding the hard work Andy, it`s still feasable to run a small 2-3 boat fleet as an indipendant, providing you have the back-up of other services. Maffett cruisers did just this for several years (me being a regular customer) offering 2 small specific cruisers. However, as most on here will know, John and Linda have the back-up of all the regularly available boatyard services, plus their salvage operation and diving services, not to mention their riverside caravan site. However, when they bought "Jay" into the fleet, her initial take up on bookings was slow, so they joined Waterways holidays, and she then started to get a lot more bookings. Now they`ve also got "Kingfisher", she`s also getting bookings throuugh Waterways.

If a yard were to try toexist by just running 2-3 boats on hire, then i totally agree it WOULD`NT be financially viable.

As for the value of Blakes branding?, i think any serious "value" was lost a few years ago when the number of yards in their agency plumeted, whereas Hoseasons seemed to keep more of their fleets. That said, i think now the days of any agency in the same vein as Blakes or Hoseasons are numbered.

Regards to all ..................... Neil.