Low Sulphur Diesel

[MauriceMynah]

Thanks Andy,

Two things. Firstly I had thought that breaking it (oil) down and sinking it was the preferred solution for small spills. I am now better informed and will leave it alone, perhaps reporting it (if it's not from my boat )

Second, I too feel that the BSS was an ill advised scheme, devised by jobsworths who's views were based on nothing more than "Oooh, that's just gotta be bad"!

My previous boat was made more dangerous for me, to get it passed one of the regs.

I have nothing against the concept of BSS, nor do I have anything against the idea of making boats more "environmentally friendly" but it should be made clear which regs are to do which.

Safety regs should have been based on insurance claims. If it 'aint been a problem, it don't need fixing!

[littlesprite]

The BSS,

Just for one minute forget the actual test, how many people have improved their boat, thought about safety, carried out work as a result of the BSS, it might not be perfect but it is a lot better than we had before.

[MauriceMynah]

Ahh, but IS it better? we are told it is, but by whom?

Ok, so no boats have exploded as a result of poorly installed gas appliances in the last 10 years. But how many exploded in the previous ten years.

Has there been an improvement or is it the same but with spin on the statistics.

Who will have profited by all this money spent to make our boats safer?

The BSS may well have created jobs, but has it improved boating?

[Paladin]

Who will have profited by all this money spent to make our boats safer?

 

The examiners, boatyards and the Canal & Rivers Trust. The C&RT own the scheme (with the EA) and impose a levy on each certificate issued. Remember, this is a national scheme. The BA is not the only authority to have adopted it.

[Oddfellow]

It was one of the last to adopt it. When it was introduced in 1997, I was one of the early boat owners who got clobbered by it's clumsy approach, and even then, somewhat uninitiated in the marine business, I could see how flawed it was. Anyway, perhaps we should discuss this on a separate thread!

[MBA Marine]

I see BSS bashing is back having come full circle. I have been visiting this forum for the past few years, but what is now very obvious is that there is a large amount of repetition, I have contributed less lately because of this. 

[littlesprite]

Mark,

If you see my post #155 I come out in support of the BSS, whilst I won't say it's perfect I think we're better with it than without.

That said if others want to have a different opinion to mine that's fine, if their comments are what they believe and put over in the right way then it's what makes a forum worth reading, all opinions are valid and because of new members will crop up from time to time, long live the NBN!

[Hockham Admiral]

Or 'N', Martin?

[littlesprite]

I did notice my mistake John but the inability to use edit meant I couldn't change it. : :

[Hockham Admiral]

I did notice my mistake John but the inability to use edit meant I couldn't change it. : :

Done for you, Mate! 

[littlesprite]

Thanks John,

Just to add to my embarrassment I had the forum burgee sitting next me with the NBN logo staring up at me.  

[Hockham Admiral]

That said if others want to have a different opinion to mine that's fine, if their comments are what they believe and put over in the right way then it's what makes a forum worth reading, all opinions are valid and because of new members will crop up from time to time, long live the NBN!

Hear, Hear!        

[Mowjo]

Personally I don't have a problem with the BSC, what I have a problem with is how different testers will fail or pass the same item, on my son in laws boat it had a brand new test certificate when he bought it, I took one look and knew it was a fail, even I know that a bilge pump under the engine that pumps directly into the Broads isn't allowed, his electrics were a fire waiting to happen but as I don't know what they test I can't comment too much on that, and the Gas tap to the cooker had a leak, a definite fail, when I say his certificate was new it was issued a week before he bought the boat, I rechecked everything and made it all safe, but the Gas leak is the one that worried me because that one could be fatal, I've since heard the tester is being investigated, but what happens with all the other boats he passed, will they get in tough with owners and have them re tested, going by my son in laws there are some dangerous boats out there with valid certificates,,,

 

Frank,,,,,

[Mowjo]

Ok! back to the original post about LSD and adding two stroke, if anyone is near Stalham, Motorman is doing 1litre of Comma Mineral 2 stroke for £5.00, it's recommended that you DON'T use Semi or Synthetic 2 stroke,,,,,,

 

Frank,,,,,, 

[Happy]

Mowjo-Its not only the BSC that we have to worry about-we have an MOT testing station and vehicles have to be tested to 'minimum standards'.  When you see some testers thoghts on this you would be amazed!  Regards Alan. 

[Paladin]

Ok! back to the original post about LSD and adding two stroke, if anyone is near Stalham, Motorman is doing 1litre of Comma Mineral 2 stroke for £5.00, it's recommended that you DON'T use Semi or Synthetic 2 stroke,,,,,,

 

Frank,,,,,, 

Mowjo, Comma is only made to JASO FB standard. Everything I've read about adding 2T oil emphasises that JASCO FC is the minimum standard to go for.

 

JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.

JASO FB – increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.

JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.

JASO FD - same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.

[ExSurveyor]

If I add the suggested two stroke oil to the diesel tank will it have any effect on the Eber heater that draws from the same tank ?

The original 40 year old perkins 4107 (8) is still running fine, will it have had any mods in recent years that will protect against these problems, I suspect it had a full overhaul 5 years ago, Hydraulics and most other things look new and the heating is from 5 years ago. Hopefully if money was spent , they would have started with the engine and gone onto the hydraulic drive and heating.

( Calypso 28 circa 1973 )

[Hockham Admiral]

If I add the suggested two stroke oil to the diesel tank will it have any effect on the Eber heater that draws from the same tank ?

Great point, Mark.

 

Surely it will, probably even soot it up even more!   :cry

[Mowjo]

Ok folks I've been busy as I couldn't find the site where it said Ebers were Ok with the 2 stroke so I mailed them, and got this back,,, and the only thing it may affect is the heat output,,,

After contacting Eberspacher this is their response

"Our diesel fuelled heating systems are designed to operate on the DERV available from the diesel fuel pump which is defined to EN 590.


Adding additives like 2 stroke oil may reduce the performance, kw output slightly due to incomplete combustion but should not cause the heater to prematurely coke up."

 

 

Paladin!

after confuzzling myself looking at various forums about 2 stroke, and giving myself a headache because some sites say Jaso FB, others Jaso FC, I decided on plan B and went and spoke to my local diesel injector service centre, he told me it doesn't matter on older engines and even the cheapest stuff will do the job, and that the Jaso FB will be fine or any 2 stroke mineral oil,,,

 

Frank,,,,

 

Mark! unless you actually know what was serviced it's hard to say, you may have had your injector pump serviced but it depends on what seals they put in, in a way it's something you won't know until the seals leak, it's nothing to worry about, but we need to check oil levels more often and make sure the level doesn't rise and your oil thin as that's a sign a seal has gone,, the guy I spoke to at the service centre said it's a problem that been about since they bought out the low sulphur fuel and they fit the new LSD seals as standard now,,, 

[Paladin]

 

Paladin!

after confuzzling myself looking at various forums about 2 stroke, and giving myself a headache because some sites say Jaso FB, others Jaso FC, I decided on plan B and went and spoke to my local diesel injector service centre, he told me it doesn't matter on older engines and even the cheapest stuff will do the job, and that the Jaso FB will be fine or any 2 stroke mineral oil,,,

 

Mowjo, we all look around for information and advice. There is loads to find on the WWW. Unfortunately, it's all on forums, and we know how stuff gets repeated from one to another and then it becomes gospel. In the end, we just have to make our own judgements.

 

It all depends on what the 'job' is that we want the 2T to do. Lower spec. oil has a higher ash content, and will create more smoke; in other words, it doesn't burn as cleanly. Yes, it will do 'the job', but not to the same standard.

 

I have read that the need for a low ash content is either because the ash is detrimental to the DPF, or it abrades the bores and pistons, or both. The DPF problem doesn't affect me, but I don't want to find out the hard way if the bores and pistons are going to be abraded, for the sake of a couple of quid.

 

But, hey, you pays yer money and takes yer choice. Some people even put biodiesel in their engines 

[ExSurveyor]

Thanks Mowjo, very useful and practical advice.

[MauriceMynah]

Gracious me!! Whoever would do such a thing Pally?

[Mowjo]

Paladin! I try to avoid the forums for that very reason, but quite often there are some very good links so I tend to use those more, but some of the links are so Techie they go over my head, I found two good ones, one was a Canadian Government Trawler Fishing link, and the other something like the UK Marine Standards Agency both reports around 20 pages long, with graphs and test over months in labs, both with the same conclusions that the low sulphur fuel is doing damage to seals, causing increased diesel bug, affecting certain metals, it actually made grim reading until I realised these were for commercial fishing vessels using up to 1000 litres of fuel an hour which is probably at least three years fuel to me, so when you put it in context it could be quite a while before a Broads boat could see any damage to seals and stuff, so I think all we can do is try help prevent it happening by taking a few simple checks like keeping an eye on the oil levels, and for certain adding diesel bugger treatment which is something I'm more worried about at the moment, so Soltron on order, ooooh! while I think of it I looked at the Marine 16 and Soltron, both have very good reviews but the Soltron is recommended for higher usage boats, and as I'm high usage compared to most Broads users it's Soltron for me,,

 

Frank,,,,,  

[Paladin]

Some people even put biodiesel in their engines 

 

 

Gracious me!! Whoever would do such a thing Pally?

JTF, I read about it on a forum somewhere, so it must be true