Inverter/Charger - The cost effective way

[LondonRascal]

I'm afraid I had some spare time on my hands this afternoon and got thinking about inverters and charging systems and how you might daisy chain solar panels to give more amps but at the same voltage  which lead me on to find pure sine wave inverters for such installations.

Right and now you are thinking to yourself "and"?

Well this might affect people thinking about getting 240v on their boat for the first time, or those who might want to 'beef up' their current system so you may find the following useful information.

It was only after reading the specifications that I found these units can do all the functions of established branded units from the likes of Victron Energy and  Sterling Power but at a fraction of the cost - and I do mean at a fraction of the cost!

Now sure you can have a look online and find some high power inverters at good prices, but often their not pure sign wave and more often than not also they are pretty cheaply made and I'd not expect them to last too long.  But the unit I have linked to below  seem pretty well built both externally, and internally - indeed an Irish chap runs his home solar installation off one of these with no issues of daily use for over six months, what's more they are CE approved but they are not light weight coming in at 26kg which goes to show what sort of transformer and construction they have inside.

Link to buy

So what do you get:

• 3000w pure sign wave inverter

• 35/75Amp AC battery charger  (selectable) that will charge 8 types of battery - Gel U.S.A,  AGM1,  AGM2, Sealed lead acid,  Gel Euro,  Open Lead Acid,  Calcium,  De-Sulphatio

• Can cope with 9000w peak load for 20 seconds

• UPS function whereby if the shore power for whatever reason cut out (someone unplugs it or your credit runs out) it has a10 millisecond response time to switch to your battery bank to provide AC power this means even sensitive equipment would suffer no sudden spike of power or turn off.  It would will give you time to sort the shore power issue out or continue on battery supplied AC through the inverter.

 Price £499.00 delivered.

These are sold by Photonic Universe - a UK company who supply solar panels, chargers you name it so that gives some comfort you're not just buying from a factory somewhere half way around the world.

Now, have a look at  the Victron Energy Inverter/ Charger MultiPlus 3000W/12V - it too will do all of the above but will set you back an eye watering £1,735.95!

Seeing as I have had a bit of kit made by Victron Energy spontaneously short out and almost catch fire on a hire boat, and heard of one other that did similar - it is not always the case now to think that branded and higher cost items equal  longer life and less hassle.  

In fact the part that burnt up was 'only' about £250.00 but it's failure and shorting out buggered up the charging part of the far higher cost secondary unit which (as I said above) cost more than £1,700 and rendered the charging part of the unit to no longer work. It is at times like this you're pleased it is a hire yard that has to pick up the costs.

It does beg the question, if people are putting their trust into their home being part powered off these types of systems, it can't be a half bad punt for your boat.  

Finally, and randomly I might add,  should you want custom signage made from plastic, wood, aluminum, plastic  or vinyl Sign-O-Matic might be a good stop.  You can design the sign online and the prices seem reasonable to.

I know the longer autumnal nights as they arrive will only mean more pondering time and thoughts on my part so I warn you there could me more posts like this in the pipeline lol.

 

[HakunaMatata]

At first.. a big thanks .. this made me thinking too.. about my of Grid Power..

Righ tnow there is the HF Inverter from Herbert Woods which runs OK for Holidays purposes.

Maybe I am wrong.. but the way the LF Inverter work they are using a lot more Idle Power, about 100 W an 3000 KW Inverter. So, to me Its my first choice having an LF Inverter WHEN also a Solar system is running. May be my Boat is just moored and not driven for some Weeks.

If you nearly live on it they are perfect they can handle a Washingmachine, Dishwasher and so on.

I dont know much about Sailing Boats.. keep in mind this Inverters are really heavy. Due to the fact this units are designed like the oldstyled charger. Take your charger of your mobile .. lets say 1 Year old and a charger for a mobile 5 Year old.

A 3 KW Charger is approx. 25 Kg a small kid so if you drive a small Boat strike of one kid from your load placard of the Boat

All this i mind for my personal circumstances, small Inverter no Solar Panels, I go for the LF Inverter and the money saved

some Solar Panels. Thats than close to the Hybrid Boat Robin tested... elec. wise.

[Hockham Admiral]

Whoaaaaaaa, (Or Slow Down!). These figures are direct from the link Robin supplies.

- Input: 12V DC
- Output voltage: 220V - 240V (can be chosen) 50Hz
- Output wave: pure sine wave 
- Power rating: 3000W nominal, 9000W peak
- Nominal efficiency: 88%
- Power saving mode
- UPS and bypass mode
- Minimum battery voltage: 10V

Let's say you're using it at half nominal power for whatever purpose:

1500W = 125A at 12V but with a  nominal efficiency of 88% that's upped the input current to 140A... no wonder the terminals look huge, you'd need some pretty thick cables for that!

If you were ever to go to 3000W or, Heaven forbid, the 9000W peak for even a short time, then you would destroy any 12V batteries that you might normally find on a boat. (Yes, I know about the ones BB are fitting to theirs).

And it works with battery voltage down to 10V..........

[JawsOrca]

 I need an over my head smiley.. 

Orca has 1 engine, 1 big domestic battery and runs everything we need including satellite TV, fridge, lights and electric loo, heating .. I don't get why anyone would want a boat all modern.. It should be like camping but just a bit posher.  

Credit to you as always Robin for looking into this stuff  

[HakunaMatata]

Yep you are both right in in the sentence you are saying.

But to me, as I wrote my system, would have 4 Leisure Batts.. I am Looking to archive 600 Amps min.

Staying, lets say 3-4 Month on a Boat, my Wife would like to have a real Washingmashine just one example.

About Cable Diameter.. there is only one mistake you can do when buying a cable.. too small Diameter..especially on a DC system. Big is beautiful.. in this case safe too :-).

[LondonRascal]

If you are going to have a washing machine you will require a Pure Signwave Inverter - but, because of the fact washing machines during their cycle can use a hefty amount of amps (especially if have to heat the water a little) you'd be best to use such when on a shore power connection. Also,  while in the general scheme of things they don't use too much water these days, it would still take quite a bit out of your water tanks so something to consider there too and may be easier to just use shore based washing facilities - Richardson's even has  coin operated laundry facilities in their Stalham boatyard.

As I wrote recently on my Blog: http://norfolkbroadslive.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/boating-tips-tricks.html you would require a 'Power Audit' of you boat to see just how many Amps you could be using in a 24 hour period - which will tell you how much capacity you would need in terms of storage (batteries) and how much you would need to put back the used power through either a shore power connected charger, or Alternator (or two).  Remember your boat in its current configuration will if anything like other Herbert Woods boats,  only have a single Alternator and 4 batteries. One of which will be on a separate circuit for the starting of the engine, two for 12v supply and one for the 240v supply. 

If you are competent with wiring (and know of the UK rules/set up) then it is something you can do yourself to fit shore power, CD and consumer unit and extend the sockets on board from just the one to one in each cabin - should you not be up to speed on this, treat electricity at mains voltage as like gas - it can kill so get someone qualified to fit such.

[HakunaMatata]

Thanks Robin.. I am used to the German rules.. and now I read about the UK and Marine rules.

When I am going to build this OF GRID Power network.. before it will be switched on a professional will have a close look at it. The Elec. system on the Boat requires a lot of thing to keep it well going.

Starts at the Alternator(s) to the right charging system of the build in Battery..

The Power Audit .. somekind of a shocking short.

I went through the electrics my family is using.. asking them how long it will be switched on a Day... result..1289 amps.

As i sad shocking but on the Boat there will be much less than this.. if not i have to have a mobile Nuclear power station in a dinghy

[HakunaMatata]

concerning the Price of the Victron Unit..just had a look at the German Shops the prices here are at about 1300 £ thats what i call a big difference. I am not talking some outlets just Marine Supplies

[Mowjo]

4 hours ago, JawsOrca said:

 I need an over my head smiley.. 

Orca has 1 engine, 1 big domestic battery and runs everything we need including satellite TV, fridge, lights and electric loo, heating .. I don't get why anyone would want a boat all modern.. It should be like camping but just a bit posher.  

Credit to you as always Robin for looking into this stuff  

I'm with Jaws! I've managed over 30 years without one on boats with 1 to 4 battery's, and can't even think of anything I'd need one for, some boats like my current one dosn't even have hot water, all my stuff is 12V, but I have 240v mains if I need it, might be good for a livaboard or if you just like bling, but I honestly can't think of one reason why I'd need one, if I wanted every home comfort I'd stay at home, as Alan says half the fun in boating is roughing it,, good find though Robin,,,,

[Baitrunner]

Don't forget some of us do like a few home comforts - softies maybe, but we are what we are.

I'm lucky enough to have a generator (came with the boat), but hardly ever gets used. OK the inverter is quieter, but at least the Gen set actually charges the batteries when it's running.

I think there are pros and cons for both, just depends on what you do on your boat.

Personally even if I was a live aboard I don't think I would fit a washing machine. Of course after a few treks to the laundry room I may change my mind on that.

Robin's gadget does look like a bargain though compared to the competition.

[Hockham Admiral]

If you're going the washing machine routine, Frank, I think that shore power is a must. It's available at low cost in many places around the Broads; we use it nearly all the time as we don't have gas onboard.

As Mark says, above, we also have a  230V 42A genny onboard (10 kVA to be precise); so we don't have too many problems when we can't find shore power!

When we bought her, Friday Girl's previous owners had even had their own dishwasher fitted..... that space is now an extra wine cupboard!     

[Mowjo]

I'm not saying don't fit an inverter if thats the route someone wants to go! I just can't think of any reason I'd need one, everything you need on a boat now comes in 12v versions, Judi uses gas curling tongs we even have a 12v Iron and an emergency 12v kettle, TV/DVD combo's come in 12/240v versions, I know Robins is a cheap option but it's still £500.00 for something that in reality you don't need on your average Broads boat, my son in law has one on his boat and when we are out he's always borrowing my spare battery to start his boat, and yes I've told him to split his system so he has a dedicated starter battery,