marshman

3 at least! Ferry, HW and Bridgecraft so far..!!

Presumably as they envisaged "road signs" it cam out of the Navigation budget!! Whatever next!!!

And in contrast Ferry seem to have started!! I think the yards find it quite disrupting - they still have to provide breakdown cover, and when the boats go out, there are dewinterised, and winterised when they come back. They also have a planning process whereby boats are taken through the sheds for overhaul and this all has to be fitted in. I suspect Len is of the view it is just uneconomic, which it probably is!! Cannot believe in reality if it is worth the effort, or not!

I believe the "ditch" is an IDB drain which runs down from the How Hill area and is pumped out into the river - there is a pump I believe behind the boatyard. I shouldn't think that it is particularly prone to flooding but at that time the Upper Ant did have flood warning out and was probably some overtopping in some places. Hence probably the stilt arrangement for times like we had.

Hello, hello, hello!! This seems to add up to a measure of agreement!!! No - that must be wrong!!!

Whether or not the sign should or should not be on the post, perhaps the point is in reality, it is easier for this Forum to take a pop at the BA than all the other agencies/firms that now use that slogan and also who were directly involved in the original decision to erect that sign. That means, the local authorities concerned, including probably the Highways Agency under whose auspices the A47 will fall, and then everyone who uses the "lie" on their material from the OS downwards. Off you go then boys, and do your duty!! I wish you well and many hours of happy correspondence - and no ST that does not mean that I support the introduction of a full NP for this area

So Grendel - would it be a good idea to put that type of powered boats on the Trinities? I assume from your comments you would think that a good idea, or rather would not oppose it! Sorry ST - guess again as to my thoughts!! ( I actually do not ever recall supporting a NP per se for this area, although I might have pointed out that legislation is required for that purpose, rather than the appearance of a road sign. Equally neither Clive's brochure nor the OS publications actually make it one either! ) I do think that sometimes my comments are perhaps taken too literally - don't forget there is a need for balance in all discussions and rather than read all posts following the "party" line, there is a need to point out the other side of the story! I just believe the need to point out there is another side to be considered.... ! Balance is what its called!!!!!

Yep agreed - utter boredom with all the semantics involved????

Correct - Grasmere currently has only rowing boats, hardly 30/40' gentlemans electric launches with overnight accommodation!!

Its not a question of "going for big bucks", but if you are to make an investment, surely you can not deny them the right to make some money out of it? If indeed you do not allow them to make money, then they will not invest and without investment, the Broads will surely die? Its no use saying that the shop can be redeveloped because my guess is that you just would not get any return whatsoever - who would use it? OK a few would pop in to buy something they were missing, but why not wait if going upstream to get what you want and cheaper at Stalham? If it requires the holiday lets, then so be it but even that is a dodgy market with few guarantees - its certainly not a place I would go and rent a property for peace and solitude, right next to a fairly busy road and above a busy public mooring! Good luck to them I say and will it be a success I ask? Possibly marginally but I doubt if anyone is going to to make big bucks, or what I call big bucks!!

No Upcycler - you cannot turn the clock back and if you had ever owned a woodie, you will know what heartache they are! OK they give pleasure but I recall however smart they looked, there were always hidden corners where even angels feared to tread!! And the bigger they are, the bigger the pain!!!!

As you say, one of the "bibles" of wherries containing a wealth of information - how ever much you think you know, a valuable reference book. Just the sort of book to be kept around especially when afloat And of course, the Norfolk Wherry Trust will benefit and anything to help the Trust to continue to have a presence well into the future is to be welcomed

ST - how I take delight in keeping you guessing!!!! But do not assume that just because I appear to disagree with PW a lot, we are that different in our objectives - what I dislike most is how some are so negative about everything the BA does and it is so readily assumed that what some say is always right, when in fact the vast majority of members of this, and other Forums may well have a more "benevolent" view of that organisation. The last post continues to lambast that organisation, rightly or wrongly, but my view has always been that you should not moan all the time, or indeed find fault over what IMHO, and I suspect others too, see as not a great deal and certainly be aware that this constant negativity and finding fault is not supported by everyone and he would do well to remember the fable of Peter (!) and the Wolf!! I shall save myself for the real battles and not imaginary ones! Anyhow enough of all this for the time being, I am just going to nip down to the boat to see whether all is still well with reality!!

Vaughan - I agree with you to some extent about rural crafts, but as far as reed is concerned, it is impossible to realistically make a living from it, especially when imported reed from overseas is available more cheaply! Allied to that fact is the issue about how it is just too hard a job in this day and age, for the people who are looking for jobs - you would have to really love outdoor life to freeze your b*****ks off in the winter and get fried and bitten to death in the summer to cut sedge!! Pally is right that it does "exist" and it does, but only at a very "low" level - they do keep looking at opening "new" beds but it is only in bits and pieces. The thatchers prefer nice even and clean reed and thats not always available in any real quantity and it is still, on the marshes, very labour orientated. Some thatchers like single whale (cut after one year) others double , cut after two.This winter at the moment, for example, is probably going to quite difficult given the huge amount of standing water around and even lightweight machines will probably have difficulty - fun doing it in waders in deep water all day I promise you - not!!! Oh for nice level marshes able to take heavier machines as they have on the reedbeds on the N Norfolk coast - some around here won't even take the machines that bundle it and it still has to be cleaned whatever machine is used. The BA planners like to see Norfolk reed thatching but don't insist on it, but I very much doubt whether they would approve of straw thatching along the riverside!! So I expect where it is indigenous to the region its hardly surprising that planners like to see straw thatching alongside existing straw thatching - but who grows long stemmed wheat/barley for thatching these days - if you combine it it will just chew it up I guess!!!! And guess what ST, you are wrong again when trying to guess my views!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nonetheless as I am not being ask to do this in reality, and I cannot second guess whether there are any other factors, I just think its all a bit pointless!

To be honest - it is not happening at this time, so you just cannot say!! So its entirely hypothetical and without knowing what else is involved, I don't see that it is a particularly relevant question. Everything and anything could be changed - so I am not sure what is the point?

MM - I would just go away and get drunk again! Nonetheless you do speak many words of wisdom!!!!! Incidentally my reading of the report mentioned is not that the Broads should be subject to the Sandford Principle per se but that consideration should be given to applying it to all areas of AONB. However for what it is worth, you must remember that these are proposals only and it does not mean it is a concrete proposal across the board; there is plenty of wriggle room in those words as they acknowledge. Earlier some posters were setting great store by suggesting the RSPB was making firm proposals for the Broads - just read the title of the document as being "a vision". PW has a vision for the Broads without JP - doesn't mean its definitely going to happen!! In any case, the RSPB only own a small area of Broadland and play only a minor role - far less than the NWT for example. Also remember that the heavy hand of the EA already controls almost everything the BA does, and does not, do. The rumour around is that the legislation protecting water voles is now going to be more vigorously applied than previously, and it may well be used to impact such issues as dredging or the disposal of dredged waste! We shall see!!!!

To be really honest, I doubt many will really care!! Does anyone criticise Richardsons for its website which says much the same thing!!

But, by "taunting" him to answer a question to which they already know the answer, that's exactly what the questioners are aiming to achieve!!! Hopefully Tom will not respond and remain "slightly damp"!!! And as for the Broads becoming as popular as those other places (one wonders why PW bothered to go to either if they are such dreadful places ) we know that won't happen as the tolls are already outrageously expensive and new owners are already being frightened away as a result!!

Great - another no news day and the EDP has just to confirm it!!!!

I was going to say something a bit obvious, but promised to keep out of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ST - sometimes with respect, you have not a scooby how or what I am thinking!!!! I have no relationship at all with the BA, nor do I have any knowledge of the BA's intentions in respect of their future intentions nor have I ever given any indication of what my personal preferences as to NP status is - you are merely making assumptions and as is often the case, making assumptions merely leads you down the wrong path!! I merely like, as do a few others, to point out that there are two sides to every story and my comments should be often be taken to put things in perspective. You state quite "deafeningly" that the Sandford Principle will apply - do you have an inside track into what any such legislation, even if it were to be suggested, would actually say? Perhaps the Broads could still be excluded? No one has any real idea, so lets not keep guessing both as to my preferences and the Governments legislative timetable or its intentions and save any further discussion until, or if, any real indications are seen. Crying wolf every five minutes has long seen to be one of the least effective ways of taking action so lets all just enjoy ourselves until such time as action is actually needed. We act on this Forum as if it talks for the majority of Broadland views and opinions - often it is in fact the minority and a mouthpiece of those that "shout" the loudest And no, equally, I have no intention of apologising to Tom - he doesn't expect it, it isn't necessary, and a bit like MM I shall desist for the time being, as if history repeats itself, any thoughts I have, will be in minority and further assumptions made about me, will be probably wrong again too!!! I shall comment no further at this time for fear of bringing the crowd down on my head!!!!

If Tom has any sense he would not even bother to comment - it is just a few people regurgitating an age old argument that just goes on, and on and on....!! It IS'NT a National Park, just called one, and we all know what is required for it to become one - IMHO that is not likely to happen at this time so lets all save our breath until then - as I have said time and time again, this "ranting" by some people over and over again, loses its impact after a while.

Theres the rub!!! It is more difficult to get old fashioned hemp or manila these days - sadly in this modern world even "modern" hemp ropes are largely synthetic and we currently use 3 strand hempex or polyhemp - look and feel like hemp but taste differently! And more importantly have a significantly higher breaking strain - even so we change it every other year to avoid unnecessary degradation. I take your point about the length of the splice, but in practice I am not overly concerned about that as the lead section of halyard is well on the drum by the time we get to lifting the gaff, when the real weight comes on and that is all taken by 22mm rope with a breaking strain of around 6500 kilograms, more than ample. The other benefits of this modern stuff is that it does not stretch, does not absorb water and is much more stable. You could ask why we bother as even the 18mm is ample to take the whole weight, BUT we try to do as has been done previously, and continue with the old traditions until we are forced to change! P. S. Sorry that this has turned into a conversation between Vaughan and myself and of little general interest to anyone else!!!!!

The last sail was made around 20yrs ago by Jeckells of a synthetic canvas called black Clipper canvas and came from company near Barnstable called John Heathcoat & Co - they are still around but no longer produce the canvas. We keep our fingers crossed that the existing sail will continue for a bit longer but it is heavy and although it goes up and down a lot, it is still in excellent condition. Jeckells have it every winter and continue to renew bits as and when but by and large its doing well! If we have a difficulty, its with the rope work and in particular, the main halyard - that is around 75m and is of 2 differing weights - the shorter bit is 18mm and that is joined to a longer 22mm length. The shorter piece goes onto the barrel first and lifts the gaff jaws until the luff is tight and then the gaff starts to lift, around the join to the heavier rope, carrying the sail as well. Traditionally the joining slice is what known as a tapered long splice, where each end is "thinned" or tapered and then spliced together - thats a skill that we are finding problems with individuals able to do it. A proper splice is about 4 -6' long but thats hard to do! We could use all the same length the same diameter but want to keep some old ways alive!!

Hi PW and to Vaughan too!! That could well be Postwick Grove - but artists employed a huge amount of licence when it suited as you all know! The beach was however very real and is one of my first memories ever!! In those days I, and the family, used to spend many hours with Nobby Clarke of Bungalow Lane fame and we had a 16' old lifeboat to which my Dad built a little cabin just after the war - wood was in short supply then so I have no idea where he got the wood from!! He built it in the front garden of our house in Cecil Road Norwich and I remember the day when a little crane came and loaded into one of those BR three wheeler trucks (Scarab?) and it was launched at Jewsons by Foundry Bridge. How did he know these people??? Anyhow the point is that before we had our own boat, we rowed downstream one sunny Sat/Sun from Nobbys to that very beach for a picnic - probably only about 4 then but thereafter began my affair with boats.Still finding excuses for my "affair"!!!! Like Vaughans comments on the colour of wherry sails - I am not sure what to believe as there are so many "variations " on that theme! The truth will of course never be known but Vaughans view is plausible - possibly originally the colour was as the old Thames barges or earlier estuary boats, and of course the fishing vessels. Why "invent" a new substance when there was already a very durable one available? The darker black sails that seemed to come later, were probably from the coal tar - a well known by -product of the production of town gas. This started up in very early Victorian times and as the wherries took the coal up river, I suspect the old wherrymen just got the stuff for free out of the back door and decided to slap it on the sails - I suspect fish oil stunk a bit, but the coal tar would have been messy too but seeing as they stuck it on the boat, they also did the sails too! Sad in a way we have to "guess" so many things about what was so commonplace, but who on earth would have ever bothered to record what squit was painted on the sails and why????