Question for the "Windies" !!

[Lucky]

When I am tootlying along at 5mph and I see a sail boat in the distance I always get a little nervous feeling running down my back.... which way, what now etc etc

Anyway, over the last couple of days I have been watching these 'nutters' * with interest. I have deliberately slowed down and watched intently...

Now, some of them realise that I know what I am doing (probably because its not a hire boat) and some of them start pointing.

My question is this. When they point, are they pointing to show which way THEY are going, or are they pointing to show which way they want ME to go ??

I ask this as last week, after exactly this incident, as we went past I asked the "captain" the question - he said that he was pointing where HE was going. Today, the same thing happened and once again I asked.... This time the "captain" said that he was pointing to where he wanted ME to go.

So - what is the correct answer ??

Luke

* (nutters) - Only joking guys with flappy things - I have every respect for you guys (well, as much as you have for me anyway) but I don't understand why you wouldn't wants revs instead of puff !! lololol !!

PS - well, I have to add a PS as I always do..... lol .... If anyone of the "Puff" variety would like to take me on a half hour circle round Oulton Broad to show me what I am missing I would actually really appreciate it ! Always up for something new - I just don't understand it - all that rope pulling, ducking and technical wordage for simple things !! Come on, someone show me how wrong I am !! I'll bring the wine !!

[Poppy]

Hi Lucky,

I for one always indicate which way I am requesting the MoBo to pass - that in my experience is what all sailies do.

As a rule of thumb, if you come upon a yacht that is tacking, (proceeding along the river on a zig zag course looking like the skipper is pi**ed ), it is always appreciated if you time your approach to pass astern of him just as he comes off the bank on his next 'board'.

[pks1702]

I ask this as last week, after exactly this incident, as we went past I asked the "captain" the question - he said that he was pointing where HE was going. Today, the same thing happened and once again I asked.... This time the "captain" said that he was pointing to where he wanted ME to go.

And therein lies the problem Luke they all do it differently and can change their mind halfway through

My approach was to slow or quicken my approach to pass behind the stern of a tacking yacht making my own decisions rather than relying on the yacht, although if I gained some clear unequivocal direction which I was happy with invariably I would comply. Unfortunately there is always the odd expert who believes a single engine motor boat can move away sideways from a lee bank with the wind blowing on to it

I never forgot my own Golden rule to myself that as the Master of my vessel I would ultimately make the final decision.

[pks1702]

Ooops part Lake Sailor to Poppy

[Palmtree]

Hi,

This is a good question and has a safety aspect to it.

When I am sailing I will point at the overtaking craft, then swing my arm to point in the direction I would like them to go.

Also when possible, check the change of direction of the overtaking craft and confirm it with a thumbs up.

If they ask for direction then go wrong way I take it my directions were unclear and make sure I avoid them.

Meanwhile, check behind, swing the rudder over, hop up, tread on a dog, rudder back to middle, check the wind, adjust the sail, smile and wave thanks

Ian

[Antares_9]

Probably best not to rely on the "instructions" of another skipper of any sort really, how would I know if they even knew what they were doing? If I came across Poppy or Ian for instance all would probably go smoothly but what about some Hunters hirer, the skipper could be highly experienced or a complete numty, truth is I don't know so I will trust to my own judgment and get out of it if I make a wrong decision. Actually avoiding yachts becomes almost instinctive and very easy if they behave as they should. It was always my belief that a car driver should spent some time on two wheels before gaining a car licence. Likewise I believe that a Moboer can benefit hugely from some sailing experience too, and by that I mean sailing not racing around in circles with a hoard of other tenders (sorry dinghies), it's not the same thing. Something I always try to do is make sure the yacht is able to have plenty of way on after tacking at the bank, if you get too close they can get a bit concerned and try to take some speed off in case of collision and that's not fair even to a Yachtie.

[Palmtree]

I think Perry and David are correct, the majority of boats hire and private need no directions as they know what to do, and the way they slow down and place themselves to overtake confirms this. I do however sometimes have people want to overtake and they ask for directions (you get to learn the panic what do we do now look!)

Ian

[Lucky]

I may of phrased my question slightly incorrectly..

I am quite experienced at boating, I completed courses back in 2000, skipper, ICC etc etc and understand what you should actually do when approaching a yacht - always pass to the stern etc...

Just for the record, I don't normally get "pointed" at either - it was just on these two occasions and I was always of the opinion that the skipper of the yacht was telling me what to do and judging by the above comments I was right... However, it appears that not all the skippers use the same reference book, making life a little complicated for the occasional boater.

I've always found it pretty obvious which way to go when approaching a tacking yacht and I only asked the question the second time of the skipper as I felt he was giving me an incorrect signal (which indeed he was)

I completely agree with you Antares, learner car drivers should ride a motorbike first ! I would say this as I own about 9 bikes of different abilities and see the huge amount of un-intentional accidents that happen involving bikes - perhaps you are correct saying that MoBo's should have some experience of sailing under their belt too !

So, the request is out there - who fancies taking me for a 'spin' (that surely can't be the right word) around Oulton Broad then ?? Two bottles of wine perhaps ?? lol !

[Palmtree]

Hi,

I'm happy to take you for a spin sometime!

I have a few others who are still waiting for a try as well

We have finished sailing now for this year and getting ready for the lay up over the winter. Perhaps the new years resolution is to get a few more people converted to flappy things.

Ian

[Antares_9]

If you take up Ian's offer Luke then be careful with any reciprocation, the bugger thinks the throttles are on / off swithches.

[Happy Jax 3]

So, the request is out there - who fancies taking me for a 'spin' (that surely can't be the right word) around Oulton Broad then ?? Two bottles of wine perhaps ?? lol !/quote]

Keep it going guys, it will be 3 bottles of wine soon.

[DaveS]

An interesting 'thread'

I know that I have only been boating on the broads since July, but in that time I have met (coming from the opposite direction), or overtaken a great many sailing boats, from dinghies to cruisers (hired and private).

However, not one has ever indicated either where he wants me go, or where he is intending to go.

As an experienced sailor, I can 'read' pretty well what the sail boat is going to do (or should do) next, and adjust my course of action accordingly.

Maybe its that an experienced sail boat helm can see that my intended course is as he would (or should) want me to do, and as such does not feel the need to indicate.

Of course there will always be the occasion when an unexpected wind shift will cause a sail boat to have to tack or gybe, and a sailor at the helm of a mobo will read the situation very quickly, and change course accordingly.

This can be very confusing to a non sailing mobo helm, and make him think that perhaps the sail boat helm, is either just being difficult, or doesn't know what he is doing.

There will also be the occassion when a hired sail boat skippered by a dinghy sailor, is faced with a situation that requires a quick response, and then finds that the sailing cruiser doesn't respond as quickly as does a dinghy.

Again, a sailor at the helm of a mobo, will recognise the sailors problem, and be able to take the appropriate action.

This is all well and good, but the sailor cannot expect the mobo helm, with no sailing experience to understand, wind shifts etc. Therefore, the sail boat helm should make his intentions very clear to the mobo helm.

If we have a situation, as has been reported here, that one sail boat skipper will indicate what he intends to do, while another will indicate what he wants the mobo to do, then we have a recipe for disaster.

At the 'end of the day', I will always be skipper of my own boat, and make my own decisions. Very much in the same way that I will not pull out of a turning in my car, just because an approaching vehicle's indicator is flashing, and assume that he is going to turn into the road from which I am coming out.

The broads is a diverse mix of experienced and inexperienced boaters, both hire and private. In peak season it can get very busy, and this diverse mix of experience (or lack of it) can converge in significant numbers at some locations.

I believe that in this situation, the experienced skipper, both sail and mobo, may have to forget about the 'rules of the road' of 'rights of way' to accomodate the mistakes of the inexperienced, or in some cases just plain idiots.

Dave

[Loops]

Good Thread this!

As a (not vey experienced) Mobo second mate (or is that cabin boy), sometimes I have to (or am allowed to) take the helm. As alot of you know, my other half is Col (Happy Jax II) who is very experienced and completely fanatical about his/our boat . I find the approach of/or our approach to tacking sailies quite daunting and I like it when they indicate what they want me to do and, in my experience, it usually is what they want me to do.

Sometimes I panic completely (especially up the Ant where space is at a premium) and Col has to take over but I have found (and probably some other partners may relate to this, although they may not admit it ) that I am alot calmer and more sure of myself if Col is not around (no offence Col) when I have to make the choices and decisions myself. If Col is around, I often feel that he is watching my every move (which he is) and judging me (which he probably isn't) and this makes me indecisive and more prone to mistakes

But I will say that, as my experience grows, I am getting more comfortable when sailies are about and Col now leaves me alone more often

Now I've just got to learn to moor her up

Lou xx

[DaveS]

I'm sure that you do yourself an injustice Lou, and you are probably a lot more competent than you give yourself credit for.

However, everybody has to learn, and there's no better way than getting behind the wheel or tiller. Under supervision if needed.

If you can remember the TV advert, where the lady says to the road worker, "can you tell me how I get to Carnegie Hall", and the guys replies, "you have to practice lady".

Dave

[Palmtree]

If you take up Ian's offer Luke then be careful with any reciprocation, the bugger thinks the throttles are on / off swithches. :naughty:

:naughty:Me?

When tacking a yacht you are sailing with the wind blowing towards you and if you need to stop or slow up pointing the sail boat directly at the wind is like pulling the kill switch on the engine, the power driving the boat is switched off. So if something does go wrong during a pass/tack situation the yacht can do something about it by stopping and letting things sort themselves out.

Something to be aware of and is not quite so easy to spot is if you come up behind a yacht that is about to gybe. This is where the wind is behind the yacht with the sail right out to one side. The yacht will be going in a straight line down the river and all will be calm on board. A gust or change in the wind can get behind the sail and rather than pushing the sail forward push the sail over to the other side of the boat in just a few seconds. This uncontrolled gybe is quite violent and can cause damage to a yacht and the sail that was sticking all the way out one side is now sticking out the other, that is if the mast and sail is still there. The kill switch option will not work and the engine (wind) can't be switched off.

For an experienced crew this is not a problem and they will control the gybe and use it to their advantage when sailing.

Lou,

To me it sound fine what you are doing, being safe and gaining experience. We only learnt to sail about 7 years ago, and only in the past few years started to sail on the rivers. Even now on a Sunday morning on the Bure we often will not sail as this boating lark is suposed to be fun and what's the point in getting stressed out when you have an outboard.

Ian

[Loops]

Thanks for the vote of confidence guys

I have gained in confidence and this year have been pestering Col for some manoevering lessons on Barton Broad but as we always seem to be off meeting people (sort of on a schedule) this year, it hasn't happened yet, however, as we are getting into the quiet season I may be lucky

Lou xx

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Hi Lou, if Col is too busy for whatever reason, i`l be more than happy to give you lessons and practice at manouvering Happy jax. Unfortunately, my own little piece of pride and joy is steered with a stick, and also just happens to be aground on our drive down here in not so sunny Dorset, so it will have to be on Happy jax . I bet Col would love that . Regards to all...............Neil.