A Bright Idea ??? I Need Help!

[Regulo]

Here's the way they do it, MM.

Note the middle switch is a special "intermediate" switch.

[ranworthbreeze]

I have always hated the modern practice of the live wire being present at a ceiling rose, it may be quicker for the new generation of electricians but it can hardly be called safe.

Regards

Alan

[Regulo]

What was the old way, Alan? Us youngsters (!!!!!) know no different!

[quo vadis]

I think the old way used two neutrals and three earths, but no live this was terminated at the fuse box for safety reasons

[Regulo]

The switch used the neutral? I must admit, I've never seen it. But I'm not a pro, just DIY changing switches and sockets.

[Wildfuzz]

I have external lights that come on from dusk to dawn at around 1/4 wattage, then if you approach them, the PIR "sees" you and you get full blast for a few minutes then they go back to low wattage. Full blast is set on the usual inbuilt timer slider. Combine them with energy saving bulbs and cheap as chips, simple to wire (the usual 2 core and earth, waterproof and good looking. Works for me.

https://www.steelcitylighting.co.uk/collections/p-lux-hi-lo-wall-lights

 

[LondonRascal]

I know it might not help in this topic, but I've just bought a new LED outdoor flood light.  You will notice it looks most unusual and expect to see a lot more of this design come thought in time.

You see the previous LED lights are based on the old Halogen fittings, instead of the bulb they have a large LED chip and inside is a driver.  It is very likely when you buy an LED flood lamp that claims to be, for example 30w that it will only be 15-20w actual.  This is not because the LED chip is lower rated, but the driver hidden inside is and since most people are just happy for the bright white output of the light they are not going to be taking the thing apart to see what is actually inside.

The other issue is their size the fact they have a glass front and seals that can perish over time allowing moisture up between the glass front and the LED chip within.

I took a gamble on this new design - after all it is being sold by a company that has nothing to do with lighting, and is cheap.  It duly arrived and is super slim, but robust.  The LED chip is in a hard resin 'bubble' so there is no chance of moisture getting in, no glass to worry about breaking and less screws to go rusty (since they always seem to).  But, having had a look mine at least is truly 30w, is earthed properly and has been performing really well - so I got another one, some extra wire and a plug and this can be used as a decent, cheap work light.

What is also coming on the market and better than PIR sensors are essential radar based sensors - they do not need heat signature moving to cause a switch on, but detect the presence of something within their field of view disturbing the returns from the solid state radar chip. 

These are making there way into interior light bulbs, and freaky will turn on as you approach the door to a room so as you enter the light will always be on.  So long as there is someone in the room the light will stay on, even if you simply move a hand..Leave the room and the light will after a delay turn off.

LED Flood Light: http://amzn.eu/flIXYFb

Radar based light switch: http://amzn.eu/bqE0fhV 

[ranworthbreeze]

8 hours ago, Regulo said:

What was the old way, Alan? Us youngsters (!!!!!) know no different!

The old way was a junction box was in the roof space with live, neutral, and switch wire (or the lives were looped from switch to switch) the earths used to be terminated outside of the junction box. A live was taken to the switch and a switch wire went to the ceiling rose/lamp holder with a neutral from the junction box.

If you had to work on a ceiling rose or light fitting you just switched the switch off and it was safe to change the ceiling rose/light fitting, these days it is switch off at the mains before doing any work and you can bet that any DIY enthusiast is bound to get into trouble. The same can be said for 2 way and intermediate switching most people can  not get their heads around how the switching works.

I once worked with an old guy who had fitted or modified  peoples houses for blackout purposes. This comprised of diverting the live or switch wire from the switch to a set of open contact just above the entrance door that were bridged when the door was closed but light went off as soon as the door opened. I even saw some of these in the late 60's on a few Terraced Houses.

Regards

Alan

[Regulo]

Thanks for the explanation, Alan. I always switch off at the mains anyway, you can never be sure what's been done before.

True story: My background is in telecomms, at one point I was asked to assist in the routine servicing of a mains to 50 volt rectifier unit, which, for regulation had large rollers running up and down big coils. Don't ask me how it worked, that wasn't my speciality, I was basically there to pass tools and spares. To do this maintenance, the technician had to physically crawl inside this beast, so it was imperative to know it was isolated before starting work. The isolator switch on the wall was thrown, the lockout key withdrawn (so it couldn't physically be turned back on), and Wally crawled into the depths of the beast. I was standing idly by with a multimeter in my hands, so I thought I'd measure what the resistance of these large coils was.  As soon as I touched the meter to it - wallop! The whole shooting match was live!!! "Wally, don't touch anything it's still live!", I shouted. "Can't be", he says, "I've got the lockout in my pocket". Anyway, I convinced him it was, indeed live, and after he extricated himself, he turned a very whiter shade of pale when he checked it out for himself! Turns out the cabling inside the isolator had been laid tight across the switch connector bolts, which had worked their way through the cable insulation, effectively shorting out the actual switch. Since that day, I've never relied on isolators or breakers, I always check with a meter that whatever I'm about to touch is dead..

[ranworthbreeze]

Back in the day guys working on three phase road cabling used to spike a cable as proof that it should be off.

We had to work a companies distribution room once where copper thieves had started cutting through  a 6.5K  incoming feed into their transformer. They had cut through the outer insulation and through the steel wire and were onto the inner insulation before hitting the three phase cores, before they gave in, it certainly saved their lives.

Regards

Alan

[Siddy]

If you have a 9W low energy lamp in your dawn/dawn light it's doesn't burn a hole in your pocket having work as it should, I have one in the garden for the dog during the night and cctv. Save cost of adapting and remove the timer.

I'd have LED fittings to suit what you need. if on PIR then they'd come on during the day if you have low light or adjust the pir to suit. Or run via a IP weatherproof switch and turn on or off as required and purchase fittings without PIRs.

I have 10w led pir's in both the garage and new man shed (just short of a garage) that come on as I enter to save turning main lights on. Then led 20w inside via switches.

Microwave verse Pir - Microwave work off movement not heat movement, we have some at work and in the canteen behind roller shutters and detected staff passing when they were down. They are good and detect better if sighted right.

I like cool white led light outside and only issue I find is the angle of light against old halogen which had a set arc of light. I need to fit a flap to some off mine to enable me to lift them up and not light the houses behind me up.

The fitting Robin picked is a good price, Robin did you look inside yours and if so take a pic as i'm looking for 12volt fittings but not the little grey ones that popup on Amazon and would wire direct. I got a 135Ah leisure battery delivered yesterday (well they sent two so see if they recall the 2nd unit) so my solar system going back online next week.