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Windows Leaking On Viking Cruiser


Jocave

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Noticed the other day the odd drip from the front windows on my Viking 23 , looking at them they are rivited in place with a rather pathetic seal between the frame and glass, question is do I need to drill out all the fixings to re seal them or can I just silicone them from the outside , I do have waterproof silicone left over from building a fish tank , Viking23 can hopefully advise on this matter but didn't want to contact via pm as I know he has far more important things to worry about at the moment , its the two front ones

 

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Well as you can imagine... I have had this problem. My experience has been replacing sliding window glass that has cracked, replacing the slides, removing the frames, dismantling the frame, removing the black sealant, resealing and refitting the frames with new rivets, and my preferred method, which has been used by many Viking owners on my recommendation is ...

What I call " The dig out method" So far 100% successful many years down the line. Quick and cheap too.

Yes, again have a search on the Viking Owner's web site, which I think you should consider joining. I like many others, have written a lot of other maintenance projects too.

I'm too tired to spend time finding the link tonight. Not been an easy week.

Best regards,

Richard

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Hello Jocave,

My advice would be that when you have removed and resealed the front windows, seal the holes in the rivets to stop any water that may find its way into the boat.

We were on the boat a couple of seasons ago, it was raining heavy one day whilst moored at Brammerton, we were sat under the canopy having a brew for a change. Tan was holding her empty mug, we both saw a drip from the canopy, it was not from the canopy instead it had come from one of the press studs that are used for holding up the rolled up sections of the canopy.

The drip was coming from the riveted hole in the press stud, on inspection this was the case on a number of other studs. I sealed all these press studs after the weather improved.

To give you an idea of how much water came through the first stud Tan's mug was filling quite fast and soon had about an inch of water in it, just from a drip.

Regards

Alan

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One thing I would say - never use Sikaflex or any other mastic which is also a glue. Otherwise you will never get the window off again. Boatyards nowadays use one part Rally-Bondite. This, if you only use one part, will never go off, and makes a good flexible seal. It comes in large tubs, but I am sure a local building yard would sell you a bit from stock.

A good tip for an instant repair is to run a fillet of diluted yacht varnish, with a small brush, around the outside edge of the joint. Capillary action will run the varnish into the joint, and stop the leak. You can even do this while it is raining! If you want a neater job, then make straight edges with masking tape.

A repair like that should last a couple of years.

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If you do go the frame out route, you can get blind and sealed pop rivets, so when they "pop" there is no route for water to go through the "pop" hole.

I mentioned it on my VO site, but get a few plain washers that are a tight fit over the rivets, as some holes in the grp will break out the side and split the grp, and the rivet will have something to squeeze against. Washer goes over rivet end inside the boat once inserted. This worked well on a couple of rivets that were too close to the edge.

From my experience in the Viking, the water was not getting in through the frame to grp seal, so removing the frame wasn't the cure. The water got in as the black sealant glass to frame has gone brittle and granular, but then half a minute looking at it, and scraping with a thin screw driver will be obvious.

The corners are the most critical.

Time wise... removing a frame, dismantling the frame, scraping out the sealant, (what a pain that was)  degreasing and redoing sealant, which gets everywhere, as you are assembling, and reassemble frame, reinserting frame and riveting, then cleaning up the grp, glass and frame, etc... around 6 hours if you have the right tools and experience. A Black and decker workmate was useful here to hold parts of the frame as was a large tarp to collect all the old sealant bits, and catch the small retaining screws that always end up on the floor lol,   and to prevent turning the tow path to mud. 

Risks... bending the thin aluminium frame as you try to remove it, shearing the corner screws that fasten the thin steel brackets in the 4 corners. Breaking the brackets ! now where can I get them from? They are only thin strips of plated steel, but require drilling and tapping and bending. Easy to make in the workshop,  but riverside....?   If you want to see the brackets, they are similar to the ones that hold the sliding window frames together. If I recall, you can see those when the windows are slid open. 

cracking or chipping the glass is also a risk.

You may not get a good seal between the grp and the frame due to old sealant, bent frame, loose rivets, and introduce a new leak to an area that wasn't leaking before. The only option... start all over again, the dig out method will not be any use now.

With the dig out method, an hour or two in total, do from outside first, then a week or two later, the inside. After the outside has been done, say an hour, then it will be obvious before the next visit if it has worked.

Caution.. with the dig out method, it is possible that the glass sits lower in the frame, which could lead to a gap at the top of the glass to frame, so you might need a thin strip of rubber  in a couple of places to centralise the glass in the frame. If you have fitted double glazing units you will be familiar with that. 

Risks... the leak wasn't the glass to frame sealant after all. but you have only wasted an hour, but saved a day if it was lol. Chip the edge of the glass or even break, the window, if you use any tools as levers.

You can see I prefer the dig out method, as it works well, for me anyway.

Richard

In conclusion, I would only remove the frame if I was replacing broken glass.

 

Another tip:- you probably have a plastimo flexible water tank, these have a life of 5-7 years, you can either buy the whole unit, or just the inner for half the price. see Force4 chandlery.

When they leak, water goes everywhere to places very difficult to dry out, so I pioneered the introduction of the pond liner. This sheet goes under the tank up all sides, you might need some plywood to form a dam wall but it does stop some serious leaking. You need to check it say every other fill or several times a season, slip your hand between the liner and the tank, or buy a water leak detector unit with a remote sensor.

You won't regret it.

Richard

I do go on a bit lol... 

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Captain Tolleys Creeping Crack Cure is useful but make sure you apply it when It isnt raining or it can run right through.  It isnt a permenant fix the leak will return at some stage its just a matter of time, that could be days weeks  months or if your lucky years, it just depends but on what I do not know!  

The varnish method is also a good one and it may even work better than Tolleys. 

The best way to deal with it is to take the frame out and reseal the glass to the frame by taking it all apart as has been described.  

I have done this myself with 2 of the smaller windows on our boat and rather than bedding the glass to frame in with silicone I used a suitably sized rubber extrusion (sealsdirect) with a bead of clear silicone between the rubber and glass and then rubber to framing, the frame was bedded back in with a non setting product called carafax.  So far so good and its now a few years down the line. 

I have also had 2 much larger windows done proffesionally and it isnt as pricey as you might think.  

For me theres nothing worse than spending your life chasing window leaks on boats! 

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Just now, dnks34 said:

Captain Tolleys Creeping Crack Cure is useful but make sure you apply it when It isnt raining or it can run right through.  It isnt a permenant fix the leak will return at some stage its just a matter of time, that could be days weeks  months or if your lucky years, it just depends but on what I do not know!  

The varnish method is also a good one and it may even work better than Tolleys. 

The best way to deal with it is to take the frame out and reseal the glass to the frame by taking it all apart as has been described.  

I have done this myself with 2 of the smaller windows on our boat and rather than bedding the glass to frame in with silicone I used a suitably sized rubber extrusion (sealsdirect) with a bead of clear silicone between the rubber and glass and then rubber to framing, the frame was bedded back in with a non setting product called carafax.  So far so good and its now a few years down the line. 

I have also had 2 much larger windows done proffesionally and it isnt as pricey as you might think.  

For me theres nothing worse than spending your life chasing window leaks on boats! 

I agree about Captain Tolley's creeping crack cure, it is a short term fix, for the simple reason, with respect to windows, the old sealant is still deteriorating, so unless you are prepared to keep doing it several times a season then the leak will continue.

Yes I have used it, in fact over the years I have bought 2 bottles, the last one was £4.95 so quite a while back. I have not used it on any of my repaired windows.

Every tool box should have one, but only apply when dry.

Richard

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I've tried all the above methods on my windows, but once the original seals perish, in my opinion the only long-term solution is to bite the bullet and complete removal and rebuild, either DIY or professional. I've gone the professional route and been perfectly satisfied with the end result. 

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