water heating

[ExSurveyor]

Any advice greatfully received.

I am looking to fit a copper cylinder into my Calypso. I need a 240v cylinder that I intend to use instead of the existing calorifier. This has no facility to fit an imersion.

I can isolate the cold feed and hot output but can't remove the existing unit without major dismantling.

I intend to leave it in place and site the new cylinder in a large void on the other side and connect the feed and out put there.

Should I isolate the existing calorifier from the engine.

Any problems using a domestic copper cylinder with just an imersion heater.

Suggestions for a supplier for a cylinder 600 H x 400 D.

Any thoughts.

[diesel falcon]

http://www.albionwaterheaters.com/pdfs/sales/domestic.pdf

 

There is a british standard for water cylinders above is a site with most of the available sizes, you can also decide which grade of cylinder you want,don t forget you,ll need a safty valve in the system and for that amount of water an expansion vessel , remove the old one from the engine .

[MBA Marine]

A domestic tank is fine if its for a sealed system, I think they're rated to 8 bar (I think, c'mon memory) a vented tank would rupture faster if used under pressure, also you need to look as if the tank is designed to be laid down as weight on its side might cause the tank to fail. yes remove all connections to the old tank and pipe to your new. I would still look to remove the old tank, once its drained a lump hammer will soon have it folded up or reciprocating/jigsaw will slice it up, you can then take your tank weigh it in getting some money back and you can feel good that you recycled and didn't just leave it.  

[Springsong]

Why not get the proper job twin coil with immersion heaters extra. They are available from ASAP, Norfolk Marine in fact most places ,or on line.

http://www.surecal.co.uk/Product/SureCal.aspx

[BroadAmbition]

I'd go along with Springsong - get the right gear designed for marine use

 

We opted for the 45Ltr Vetus unit:- http://www.vetus.com/fresh-water-systems/boilers/vetus-45-litre-calorifier-incl-fitting-kit-and-230-v-100-w-element.html

 

Can be mounted horizontally or vertically. no coils - the vetus unit has twin water jackets inner and outer - makes for a much faster warmup time, comes with it's own 1000w immersion heater, and the tank is insulated - easy instalation too

The vetus unit, both inner and outer tanks are stainles steel rather than copper

 

Ours has been in operation now since 2007 with no issues whatsoever

 

 

Griff

 

 

Griff

[ExSurveyor]

Thanks guys,

The problem is the boat doesn't get taken out much as we tend to stay on the mooring (not a lot of river without lots of locks) and I don't like running the engine just for hot water. If I get the existing tank out I still can't get a reasonable size replacement in. I am thinking along the lines of keeping the existing in place to reconnect if the boat comes back to The Broads.

I will isolate the calorifier completely but leave in situ.

The new system will be removed if required.

I am basically looking to get hot water without running the engine.

Is this practical ?

[LondonRascal]

Although you would need to have a flu, and a hole in the cabin roof - would a gas water heater not be a viable alternative? 

 

Such as this type:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PALOMA-PH-5-3F-WATER-HEATER-BOILER-CARAVAN-CAMPER-BOAT-LPG-STATIC-CALOR-PROPANE-/321663515819

[BroadScot]

Although you would need to have a flu, and a hole in the cabin roof - would a gas water heater not be a viable alternative? 

 

Such as this type:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PALOMA-PH-5-3F-WATER-HEATER-BOILER-CARAVAN-CAMPER-BOAT-LPG-STATIC-CALOR-PROPANE-/321663515819

Robin,

 

That takes me back to my days of hiring from Astons, instant hot water for showers in the morning NO engines needing to be started up!

 

 

Iain.

[BuffaloBill]

Here's a different slant on things........

IF.....you can get at the end of the calorifier, what would

be the cost to have an emmersion heater fitting brazed

onto the tank in situ? If at all possible that is. Not being

a plumber I couldn't say about the safety aspect of

doing it, but costed against fitting a new tank etc, it may

work out about the same?

It may not be possible but worth looking into, but no-doubt

someone will come along and tell us!

Just a thought.........

[diesel falcon]

If you ve got plenty of dosh, go for a hydronic eberphasher, will be cheaper than shore power to run?? but a big hit to buy though ,but you could heat the boat with it?? will need a secondary coiled tamk

[riyadhcrew]

When I was a young sparky, we used to fit immersion heaters in round water tanks. They used to have a special inside flange that took up the circular shape of the tank. I don't know if the are still made or not.

[BuffaloBill]

I might add that I used to work for Mirrlees Blackstone 

Marine Engines for 24yrs as a sheet metal worker and 

brazing copper-to-copper and copper-to-brass as well 

as steel was something I did almost every week and 

they had to be done to a high standard otherwise the

inspectors would send them back, so it is do-able in my eyes.

[diesel falcon]

I might add that I used to work for Mirrlees Blackstone 

Marine Engines for 24yrs as a sheet metal worker and 

brazing copper-to-copper and copper-to-brass as well 

as steel was something I did almost every week and 

they had to be done to a high standard otherwise the

inspectors would send them back, so it is do-able in my eyes.

No probs there Bill, how,s about this then, depends on the tappings already on the tank,(they don,t have to be the huge domestic things)..................http://www.tempco.com/Catalog/Section%2011-pdf/Screw%20Plug.pdf

[diesel falcon]

A nd if you really go into it you could fit one in the existing tank using something like this, i am sure there,s a solution,you would need a 1 inch bsp one to fit the mentioned screw imersion, fitted with a 1 inch socket to make female ,screw in imersion

 

[BroadScot]

Hi Eric,

 

I remember them, I think DunLow made them. Have a feeling they aint made anymore, but willing to be proved wrong.

 

 

Iain.

[Oddfellow]

You can buy Webasto water heaters from breakers for not too much money. They are common in Landrover Discoveries and also Saab diesels. These things are only generally used in extreme weather, so are unlikely to be heavily used.

 

As they are designed for cars, you may find that cut-off voltage values are different from a marine one, but I would doubt that it would be a big problem. Connectors are available from Webasto dealers and the manuals for these units are readily available on the web. You would also need to mount a header tank for the heater to provide for expansion and topping up.

 

However, as said above, I would not recommend a domestic tank for marine use.

[ExSurveyor]

I am finding that my bright idea may not be so bright The biggest hurdle seems to be that nobody makes a domestic cylinder small enough to fit.

Plan B

Isolate the existing unit and leave in place for use later in its life and fit a new calorifier in the remote but accessible location using just 240v imersion .

Any problem using the calorifier without pumping the engine water through it.?

Plan C

Get a tin bath and put the kettle on.

Plan D

Buy a new boat with a 240v imersion fitted. (Matron might object to this plan )

[BroadScot]

 

 

Plan D

Buy a new boat with a 240v imersion fitted. (Matron might object to this plan )  

Mark,

 

Tell Matron she can use the shower first!

 

 

Iain.

[ExSurveyor]

Iain, that goes without saying.

I could just use the marina showers but I like a challenge.

[diesel falcon]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30-LITRE-STAINLESS-STEEL-CASING-CALORIFIER-WATER-HEATER/121562637935?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D1201c5d3698e4ea5a17b243705e17e2d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D190670833908&rt=nc

 

this big enough??

[ExSurveyor]

Diesel, that should do, might even get it in the original site.

Any problems in running without connecting to the engine , just on 240v. ?

[diesel falcon]

Diesel, that should do, might even get it in the original site.

Any problems in running without connecting to the engine , just on 240v. ?

no should be fine, put some longer hoses on !! then you have the option!

[ExSurveyor]

no should be fine, put some longer hoses on !! then you have the option!

10 feet of hose, in each direction, if I can't fit in the original position .

[Oddfellow]

I know you are not planning to heat using the engine, but in case you change your mind, you might find that a longer run of pipe to the calorifier will cause circulation problems, particularly if any air gets trapped in the circuit. Basically, the engine may not have enough power to push air out of the system which will mean that the calorier never gets hot water from the engine.

 

An auto air vent in the system might resolve that or you may have to prime the system fully if the coolant drops below a level.This makes filling with antifreeze far more challenging.

 

Have you moved the boat yet? What's stopping the existing tank from coming out?

[ExSurveyor]

Hi Andy, I have had the boat on the River Medway for 5 years. We only use it for weekends when we can't get to Norfolk. I was concerned about the long run of the engine hoses.

Access to the existing calorifier is restricted without full dismantling of the rear cabin . I think I will have to go down the route of a new calorifier with just 240v and leave the existing unit in place for reuse in the future if required.

My only concern is using the new calorifier without the engine hoses connected although I can't see how this could cause a problem to the unit.

This way I can easily recommission the original and have a spate unit for my next boat.