Robin's Boating Tips...

[Mowjo]

I've used Le Tonkinois vanish for years on all my exterior woodwork and it 's outlasted every other varnish I've used, it dosn't peel, crack or fade and is UV stable, if your into green it,s organic so no nasties in it, and only needs a light rub over in between coats, it goes over stain as well but it does need five or six coats for full effect, it's not the cheapest out there but a tin goes a long way,

http://www.tradboats.com/varnishletonkinois.htm

Frank,,,

[Timbo]

Over the last three years I've done some extensive research on varnishing, including some quite in-depth discussions with the chaps who worked on the Cutty Sark restoration. On the Cutty Sark they initially stained the new timbers to match the old, then as they were sponsored by a company who supplied Epoxy Resin they gave the new timbers a coat of epoxy to speed up the varnishing process. They then ripped out all of the new timbers they had epoxied as they began to discolour rapidly. Basically they were rotting at an accelerated pace from the inside. When the second lot of timber was installed they sanded, stained and varnished in the traditional manner and the timbers remain sound. Last I heard they were looking at a chemical reaction between something in the natural timber and the epoxy resin as a cause.

My advice is to use a spirit based stain and then varnish with Wilco's own brand yacht varnish. I've been running a trial in my back yard with three pieces of Iroko. Each varnished with a different brand of varnish Hempel, Ravlak and Wilco's cheap and cheerful. I left all three pieces of wood propped up in the backyard and just left them. Hempel and Ravlak have all yellowed, cracked and peeled. The Wilco's is a fresh as when I applied it.

Over the past few years I've come across quite a few repairs that have been done on Royal Tudor, a recent one included a section that had been coated in epoxy. It looked sound, great finish, but was as light as a feather due to the internal structure being nothing but dust.

I now stick to a routine of spirit stain and as soon as it has soaked in seal it with a thinned coat of Wilco's Satin yacht varnish. Let this go off and apply a second coat straight out of the pot. I apply each coat with a roller and 'tip' it with a brush. On the second coat I knock it back lightly with some 360 grit sandpaper before whipping on the third coat. When this has gone off I knock it back with fine wire wool and switch to Wilco's gloss yacht varnish. My final layer is always a satin layer. This way I can get a very tough finish that is not too glossy.

If I'm honest this is the technique I was shown by Doug with the exception of sealing the stain. I discovered sealing the stain as I got fed up of getting water damage in the stain when I followed the instructions and left the stain for 24 hours. The switch between the satin and gloss was one of those happy accidents when I ran out of satin...and the discovery of the quality of wilco's varnish when I refused to cough up top dollar for something that just peeled off.!

...I just love varnishing...not too keen on the prep...but I love varnishing!

 

[BroadScot]

15 minutes ago, Timbo said:

I just love varnishing...not too keen on the prep...but I love varnishing!

Hi Tim,

I believe HMS VICTORY has had quite a few planks replaced recently....there you go that will keep you busy varnishing for a wee while 

Iain

[Wussername]

Timbo. Please exscuse my ignorance. Temperature and humidity, I've been told plays a significant part in achieving a great finish when varnishing. If that is the case do you have any advice to offer.

Andrew

[LondonRascal]

This is a subject where there is never a definitive, absolute answer as everyone from the chap who does it by himself to the professional Shipwright will have their trusted way to get that perfect finish.

I've seen professionals say that using steel wool is a terrible idea because fine particulars will always be left behind, and these will, like all Steel does corrode and rust especially if the Varnish is water based.  Others will say that the use of 'tack rags' are a no no because of the solvents used in them causing a residue layer the Varnish will react with slowly over time. Of course there is always an opinion about the best brand and type of Varnish as well.

What is known is that no single system or method will mean wood not needing further attention in the future, it always will which to many is part of the joy and pride of maintaining such.

[Timbo]

11 minutes ago, Wussername said:

Timbo. Please exscuse my ignorance. Temperature and humidity, I've been told plays a significant part in achieving a great finish when varnishing. If that is the case do you have any advice to offer.

Andrew

I'm very much a novice still Andrew. Let's face it I've only got half the boat varnished at the minute! Temp and humidity is extremely important and something I've never managed to find perfect in Norfolk. It's either too cold, too hot, swarms of flies or raining. There are many folks more experienced than me when it comes to varnishing and they've all come past shaking their heads when I've been varnishing. I'm hampered when it comes to time  I can spend working on the boat by my illness and by my other half's inability to take the weather into account. I work to the following. As long as it's not going to freeze or rain...I'd rather get some varnish on the boat than have bare wood. At the very least I will pop stain on to give some protection to any wood I've sanded back. Having said that Royal Tudor is currently standing in the yard with a tarp covering exposed timber as I ran out of time this last month!

The last spot of varnishing I did I got two coats on, with my youngest lad popping a third on in the evening. He'd just finished and the heavens opened. Quickly covered over with a tarp and the worst we had in the morning were slight imperfections in the varnish. Left like this over winter that side just needs a quick rub down and the next coat will go straight on. But the wood was protected.

A crack bubbled on the cabin side but a quick sand down, restain and patch in and we will be sorted out....then another undercoat on the topsides...then the topcoats...woodies eh?

[Wussername]

Thanks Timbo. 

I do not have a boat, but do varnish bits and bobs round the house. A superb varnish finish Is great to see and I suspect an enormous sence of achievement if you have been able to have done it yourself.

I also liked your involvement with the Cutty Sark.

Andrew

 

[Timbo]

Oh I wasn't involved with the Cutty Sark Andrew. I just happened to know one of the researchers on the project, an old archaeology student of mine who gave me the info.

I stand in awe of the skills of people like Doug, Allan and Mally at Wayford and Matt and Griff et al. I don't have one percent of their knowledge and only a quarter percent of their skill, but I'm trying to learn as much as I possibly can from them.

[ZimbiIV]

I make 1/8 scale model cars, the way to get a mirror finish to the paint work is to spray and rub down several top coats then spray the final top coat then rub down until the surface is totally matt with nothing but the colour showing. Then starting with 600 grit wetndry work up through grades to 4800 wetndry then modelling coarse grain rubbing compound through to extra fine then various liquid compounds to a perfect mirror finish. Only takes about 4 weeks or 4 years for a boat. A sheet of 4800 grit is only about £5, so be happy it's a boat, use it, enjoy it, don't become obsessive about it, some drunken a???????e will come along and whack it.

paul

[Mowjo]

First I agree with Robin and have done enough Varnishing in the last thirty years to know he's right, because every boat I've owned I've re-furbished and varnished miles of timber, so never use steel wool! it does leave rust spots and stay away from shop bought tack rags, some but not all do react with the varnish, some leave an oily film and when you varnish over it, it leaves pits in the finish, I make my own tack rags by just adding a bit of thinned varnish to a lint free cloth and using that, some say add a bit of linseed oil but I'm pretty sure it's the linseed that causes the problem,,

Like Timbo I've found that cheaper varnish is just as good as the so called marine ones, I havn't tried Wilcos yet, I normally buy Screwfix trade Yacht varnish, or Wickes Exterior varnish, but the last couple of years I've been using Withams traditional yacht varnish it's really good and pretty cheap but only available from Withams, WITHAMS, I think Peter will vouch for this company as I'm sure he has praised them here in the past, I still stand by Le Tonk being the best out there, but as I said it's quite pricey,,

Now for a Mowjo tip! forget all that sanding in between coats! rub the first coat down as normal, because staining and varnishing can raise the grain, when doing all the other coats use Scotch bright or Mirka hand finishing pads, they come in three grades but I always only use the green ones, Scotch Pads  you can buy in bulk like in the link or get them from any good chandlers but they are double the price from them,,,

Frank,,,,

[LondonRascal]

I've just posted to Norfolk Broads Live! my Spring edition of Boating Tips & Tricks. 

I cover things from how to wash the boat to get the best results - and what the best product to use is for looking after your Gel Coat or painted decks (you do not want something that is either acidic or alkaline) to what polish and protection systems to use for the surfaces not to mention looking after things in the engine bay too.

Here is the basics below:

Boat Washing:

 
It does not matter if you have your boat under a tarpaulin, in a shed, or just bare in the in the open one thing is for sure after just a few weeks her topsides will be looking dull and since many owners pack up for the season in late October and do not return until late March, that is a lot of time for the muck and grime to build up. 

Especially if your boat has a painted surface, it is important not to just reach for any old cleaning products but spend a little and get something nice.  The most important thing you want to look out for is it being PH Neutral.  This is because a product that is too acidic, or conversely too alkaline will cause any protection you may have on the surface, such as polish or wax to be broken down. 

 

Something like Autoglym’s Bodywork Shampooand Conditioner would be a good bet as it is compatible with all painted surfaces and is PH Neutral. 

But before you even touch the decks you need to get as much of the residue and muck off of them without actually touching them with a sponge or ‘wash broom’. There is a surprising amount of grit and abrasive ‘stuff’ that will get blown about and find itself settled on your boat and going right in with a wet soapy sponge will just push it around and cause some lovely swirl marks in your gel coat or painted finish. 

 

If you only have a low pressure hose this will do, but with many small low cost pressure washers available now blasting the muck away will be far easier and make short work of the task.  Using a ‘wash broom’ will help with not needing to bend down as much, a soft paint brush and washing up brush can come in handy to get to those difficult places like window gullies and around cleats and fender eyes.  Don’t allow the product you use to clean the boat dry – it will leave a residue that will need far more work to rinse – work in smaller sections.

When you’ve washed the boat, thoroughly rinse with clean water, or get that pressure washer out again – it will use less water at a higher pressure if you are worried about water usage.  

Wax on Wax Off:

Once the boat is washed down and dry you need to protect the boat.  

It may very well be easier to polish a boat when it is on the hard but that might not always be possible, or fit in with your schedule – but it is nice to have the boat lifted once a year, certainly every two so a full polish then is recommended.   Otherwise it is a case of doing the best you can.  What product you use, is down to a matter of choice, but I have found great recommendations in Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company’s products – yep until 2002 that was what ‘3M’ actually stood for.

What you need to do is a two step approach – polish and the seal. It is much easier to use a variable speed polisher, you can spend out quite a bit on machines suited for this or just get the cheapest you can since you will not be doing this too often you need not get the greatest most expensive machine.  Follow the instructions of the polish you use as to the RPM they recommend the polisher is run at, and type of pad used.

Something like 3M’s ‘Perfect-it IIIUltrafina Polish’ used with their 3M ‘Blue Pad’ will give excellent results, this is well past the usual ‘car polishes’ your find in the likes of Halfords in terms of quality but the results will be first class and worth the cost.  You can find very in-depth instructional videos on You Tube from 3M in how to apply their polish and use a polisher with them. 

 
Whatever polish you use only work in a small area before moving on to the next – take your time too and don’t use too much pressure or allow the pad to dry out so keep the pad moist with polish.  Once the polish is applied, use another fresh pad designed to remove the surface film of polish and produce a ‘mirror like’ shine.  Running over this with a microfiber cloth is recommended for any small misses you may have made with the polisher.

Once you’ve polished the area it is good practice to then seal it with a good quality Polymer Sealant. Often used in the car detailing industry – this is an added layer of protection to the polish under, and will further enhance the U.V stabilisation properties and keep the underlying surface protected for longer.

This is especially important if you are polishing a Gel Coat since this is only a hard type of resin that has a pigment in it, and will over time oxidise and ‘chalk’ without good care, polishing and the  protection this affords the surface.

If your Gel Coat is oxidised this is where ‘compounding’ comes in, but that is a whole separate process and should not be done every time you polish – indeed compounded might only be carried out every 4 or 5 years as you physically remove a layer of your Gel Coat doing this.