Robin's Boating Tips...

[LondonRascal]

I thought I’d share some thoughts and tips on some boaty things I have discovered and learnt, along with ideas I have had and which may help others or inspire them - I'll add to this in time as I learn or think up new ideas myself.

 

Varnishing:

You don’t need a wooden boat to need to Varnish, even Fibreglass boats have woodwork that can benefit from being kept in tip top condition. However, if you want to help preserve the wood, and produce a glass like surface together with reducing the number of coats of Varnish (and mind numbing work between coats) consider using a clear Epoxy to begin as your build up coats.

You will need to start with the bare wood surface for this, so there is no skimping on preparation alas and any previous coats of Varnish will need to be sanded back to the bare wood. However, you will only need 3 or 4 coats of actual Varnish to achieve a surface much as if you’d used 10.  

I think we all are familiar with West System as a brand name, so sticking with this you would need to use the 105 Resin and 207 hardener. Using this will mean when they cure it will be ‘water clear’.  The 207 hardener also has some UV blockers built in which will help under a traditional Varnish.

Once the first coat of Epoxy is cured, sand it back with 220 grit paper then clean the surface of all dust with a Hoover and soft brush then wipe down with Acetone and apply the second Epoxy coat.  Once the second coat is cured sand again with 220 grit paper. 

You might like to wet sand as it will control the surface and Epoxy dust better.  You want to ensure there is no shiny surfaces showing and all the wood is matt in appearance. Once sanded clean the surface with Acetone again.

Now it’s time to Varnish.  You will want to use a Varnish with a high amount of UV stabilises/inhibitors in it – notice no thinning of the Varnish is done.  Just light strokes with the brush if you can use a Badger bristle brush all the better. 

Allow to dry – then sand back with 320 grit paper. Then apply a second coat and allow to dry then once more sand back this time with 400 grit paper.  Now time for the third and final coat of Varnish.  

This will mean that the wood surface you are protecting has had the Epoxy ‘soak in’ to begin and effectively be encased in the grain with the protecting Epoxy. The Varnish then adds extra UV protection on top, and of course is the main finish you see which will not only result in a very protective surface to the wood but give a glass like finished and wow factor much the same as if you had applied far more coats of Varnish had you not begun building up with Epoxy.

 

Headlining with a difference:

If you have new head lining fitted and use hard wood finishing strips to add flare (and cover up seams between the panels) then consider using LED strip lighting (the sort one buys on a roll and can be cut every third LED) to stick to the ‘inside’ of the wooden finishing strip.  Then, get some clear Acrylic sheet that is about 3mm thick and cut so that it is 5mm wider on each side of the wood finishing strip.  Use 400 grit sand paper to ‘etch’ the Acrylic so it appears matt on all sides. 

Stick this over the top of the wood finishing strip (and LED light strip) and then fix to the cabin roof over the headlining seam (I’ve not quite worked out how that is to be done yet) but the result is during the day it would be virtually unnoticeable the small 5mm matt Acrylic either side of the wood finishing strip, but at night it not only would provide a very nice look as the sides of the wood strip would light in any colour of your choice, but because you have etched the Acrylic, this will defuse the LED light – and form a practical soft down light – idea for night navigation when set to red, or perhaps for mood lighting a deep orange. 

Acrylic can be used artistically in many other ways too with LED lighting in various applications on boat.  

 

Inverter and Battery:

It is nice to have 240v on any boat, large or small but working out how much power you use is the first step before figuring out your battery requirements, charging capability and inverter choice. 

Conducting a power audit is not complicated your need a sheet of 14 paper and 6 columns labelled left to right as:

Appliance

Volts

Watts (Amps x Volts)

Amps (Watts / Volts)

Usage (Hours per day)

Total Amp Hour per Day (Amps x Usage)

For example you might had a light that uses 12v – when on it uses 18 Watts (1.5Amps) and you may say that in the course of an evening it will be on for 5 hours.  Thus this will  mean a total ‘daily’ usage of 7.5 Amps.

When you are on a boat, always deal in Amps, not Wattage because it is Amps you live off from your battery bank.  You can then estimate higher drain appliances like the fridge, and of course this depends on the thermostat setting and time of year as to how often the compressor will kick in.  Once you have covered the boat and all that it has electrically you will have a good idea of how many amps you might use in a 24hr period – and thus how large your battery bank needs to be to supply this.

It might be worth considering halving your amp draw by using a 24v battery set up – but this will effectively double the space needed for your batteries as, you will need two 12v batteries together to provide 24v.  While this is good in theory it may well need a lot of items swapping over to be 24v, so if you are considering a refit of items going 24v might be a good option.

What you will also need to do is figure out how to recharge your batteries in the best time. If you have, for example consumed in 24hrs some 200Ah of power, it will take some engine running to put that all back ready for the next 24hr period of drain. Perhaps upgrade your Alternator to a higher amperage type, or have two. Increasing the flagship cars from Audi, Mercedes, BMW etc are using water cooled Alternators because under load and in a hot engine bay an Alternator will lose a lot of output the hotter it gets – by having them water cooled it helps prevent this thus maintaining a more constant high amp output – naturally check such might be able to be retro fitted to your engine.

Consider an external alternator regulator – this will do a great deal for your charging system, and companies such as Sterling and Mastervolt produce all in one units that take care of your charging needs in a ‘smart’ manner and monitor your batteries providing them with high amperage initially and then drip feeding the amps until the batteries are full – this also helps the overall life span of the batteries ion your bank. 

What an external alternator controller does is override the internal regulator, and force the alternator to charge at a higher voltage. Usually in the region of 14.4 volts.  Many people think that an increase in charge voltage from 13.8 volts to 14.4 volts isn't much of a difference. It's an increase of about 5%, so it will increase the charge by 5%.

This is not so true though, firstly a wet cell battery at about 50% charge will not begin to accept any form of charge until the terminal voltage is raised to about 12.5 volts. After this point, the current starts to flow. So the starting point is actually 12.5 volts as opposed to zero volts. Now the difference between 12.5 volts and 14.4 volts, as opposed to the difference between 12.5 volts and 13.8 volts is an increase of 50% ahh you see not just 5%. 

When you take into other factors like the energy going back to the battery is roughly in proportion to the square of this voltage difference not just proportional to the voltage difference the increase in performance is more like 200% what it began at.  

But it is not just what happens when the engine is running, you can get a solar panel to provide free power on a sunny day – this may help actually more than you think especially when you imagine being mud weighted on Salhouse Broad in August, the sun beating down the finding cutting in more often and for longer – that solar panel is going to help power the fridge thus the extra amps it draws in the hot summer are not as big of a deal on your battery bank than if you did not have the solar panel. 

When plugged into shore power you also want to be able to charge your batteries at a good rate – no good having 5 batteries and a Halfords 6Amp battery charger – but an ideal way of dealing with the battery charging and Inverter is have an all in one unit. You can pick up a 75Amp battery charger with a 3000w pure sign wave inverter for under £500.00 if you buy from companies supplying those who have a home with an inverter/charger system for use with their Solar panel bank on the roof.  

That brings me nicely around to inverters – if you just charge a laptop and a phone and run a TV then you can get away without having a pure sine wave Inverter – indeed you could get a 300w small unit and likely be fine.  But if you want to use a hair drier, power tools, microwave etc  then the higher wattage output you can afford with pure sign wave (which will prove the same frequency power as your home supply) will be not only better for your appliances plugged in, but prevent certain items causing problems for the inverter.  

 

Damp Busting: 

Every boaters worse nightmare the dreaded dampness, along with its bother Mildew and sister Mould.  While those small damp absorbers are find for a small area, they won’t make much difference within a larger space like a cabin.  Some choose to buy compressor driven dehumidifiers and these of course are far more effective.

The problem with a compressor driven system is they are heavy, they use a lot of power but they are actually pretty rubbish when the temperature falls. In fact they really get very poor under about 20 degrees but will still have the compressor running using all the electric but extracting a lot less moisture from the air – and as the temperature gets lower and lower so their efficiency falls like a stone.

What a boater need is a Desiccant dehumidifier.

Now if you’re not sure what this is it is a light weight, very quite unit that uses a little less power than a compressor system, but is so much more efficient so watt for watt is better value for what you get out.

They use a desiccant material,  which absorbs water vapor from the air in a similar way to Silica. A fan draws air into the dehumidifier and passes it through a section of a slowly rotating wheels which holds desiccant which dries the air. 

The moisture is extracted from the desiccant by heating a portion of the wheel not being used to dry the air. They will extract the same amount of moisture irrespective of the temperature in which they are working (so great for chilly damp winter days on a boat)  also there are no consumables on a desiccant unit: the desiccant material does not expire and will not need to be replaced or topped up.

The lifespan of a desiccant unit will tend to be longer than a compressor unit as it is a much more simple process with far less moving parts, no compressor and no refrigerant gas being held under high pressure to potentially fail so I presume, a little safer eclectically for those who may worry about a compressor running for hours on end. 

 

So, a while in the writing, and certainly a while for you to have got to this point reading it – but none the less I hope something to consider, or learnt.  I will share some more of my ideas, thoughts or plain old stuff I have learnt in the future.  For now, time to give our eyes a rest.

[HakunaMatata]

I have read this very carefully i must say it is very, very helpful to me.

But where to get this 3000 watt pure sin inverter vor this money ?

Please feel free to write down some more

 

[JanetAnne]

On 26/01/2016 at 3:33 PM, LondonRascal said:

 

 

Varnishing:

You don’t need a wooden boat to need to Varnish, even Fibreglass boats have woodwork that can benefit from being kept in tip top condition. However, if you want to help preserve the wood, and produce a glass like surface together with reducing the number of coats of Varnish (and mind numbing work between coats) consider using a clear Epoxy to begin as your build up coats.

You will need to start with the bare wood surface for this, so there is no skimping on preparation alas and any previous coats of Varnish will need to be sanded back to the bare wood. However, you will only need 3 or 4 coats of actual Varnish to achieve a surface much as if you’d used 10.  

I think we all are familiar with West System as a brand name, so sticking with this you would need to use the 105 Resin and 207 hardener. Using this will mean when they cure it will be ‘water clear’.  The 207 hardener also has some UV blockers built in which will help under a traditional Varnish.

Once the first coat of Epoxy is cured, sand it back with 220 grit paper then clean the surface of all dust with a Hoover and soft brush then wipe down with Acetone and apply the second Epoxy coat.  Once the second coat is cured sand again with 220 grit paper. 

You might like to wet sand as it will control the surface and Epoxy dust better.  You want to ensure there is no shiny surfaces showing and all the wood is matt in appearance. Once sanded clean the surface with Acetone again.

Now it’s time to Varnish.  You will want to use a Varnish with a high amount of UV stabilises/inhibitors in it – notice no thinning of the Varnish is done.  Just light strokes with the brush if you can use a Badger bristle brush all the better. 

Allow to dry – then sand back with 320 grit paper. Then apply a second coat and allow to dry then once more sand back this time with 400 grit paper.  Now time for the third and final coat of Varnish.  

This will mean that the wood surface you are protecting has had the Epoxy ‘soak in’ to begin and effectively be encased in the grain with the protecting Epoxy. The Varnish then adds extra UV protection on top, and of course is the main finish you see which will not only result in a very protective surface to the wood but give a glass like finished and wow factor much the same as if you had applied far more coats of Varnish had you not begun building up with Epoxy

Being currently in possession of brand new cabin sides that, as of yesterday, are ready for varnish I have just had another read of Robins thoughts and wondered if anyone else has any comments?

Anything that offers increased protection to what was a horrendously expensive exercise would be most welcome and we are used to west system which makes it tempting...  but I am concerned about committing our months of hard work to a process we have not tried before.

 

[BroadScot]

1 hour ago, JanetAnne said:

Being currently in possession of brand new cabin sides that, as of yesterday, are ready for varnish I have just had another read of Robins thoughts and wondered if anyone else has any comments?

Anything that offers increased protection to what was a horrendously expensive exercise would be most welcome and we are used to west system which makes it tempting...  but I am concerned about committing our months of hard work to a process we have not tried before.

 

I personally would stay with the tried and trusted way of varnishing JA. Yes the new may be advantageous, but, as I come from the old school of trained thought, better the devil you know, as they say.

Iain

[JanetAnne]

Agreed Iain but when we epoxyed the decks you can see the wood through it perfectly and that was four layers of the stuff! We use it on the bottoms of the hoppers to both protect them as the glass pivots and to stop the laid water doing damage but it is a big step to do the whole cabin sides

[imtamping2]

This guys site covers a lot of boating repair cleaning etc techniques .....be warned he is addictive viewing..

http://boatworkstoday.com

 

[JanetAnne]

Sold!

[BroadScot]

23 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

Sold!

Errrr how much did you go for JA  

Iain

[imtamping2]

6 hours ago, JanetAnne said:

Sold!

Thought you might be....what a finish !!!

[BrundallNavy]

On 8 February 2016 at 6:40 PM, JanetAnne said:

Being currently in possession of brand new cabin sides that, as of yesterday, are ready for varnish I have just had another read of Robins thoughts and wondered if anyone else has any comments?

Anything that offers increased protection to what was a horrendously expensive exercise would be most welcome and we are used to west system which makes it tempting...  but I am concerned about committing our months of hard work to a process we have not tried before.

 

I have a friend who's boat has the cabin sides done with epoxy and has suffered water ingress.. As it does not let the wood breath he now has to replace them as the colour has gone black and not able to restore it.

As for me lots of Brava and hard work gives excellent results.

Doug.

[JanetAnne]

We're they new wood Doug?

[JanetAnne]

8 hours ago, BroadScot said:

Errrr how much did you go for JA  

Iain

Arn't you supposed to be watching cricket or something...

[BrundallNavy]

1 hour ago, JanetAnne said:

We're they new wood Doug?

I think that it was originally varnished but had been taken back and epoxied.  Going to be a big job now to replace.

Doug.

[BroadScot]

1 hour ago, JanetAnne said:

Arn't you supposed to be watching cricket or something...

I did, NZ won! Now get yourself all ***** n span, there's a guid boat !

Iain

[BroadScot]

Hmmm wont let my type s p i c k!

[JanetAnne]

3 hours ago, BroadScot said:

I did, NZ won! Now get yourself all ***** n span, there's a guid boat !

Iain

Ooh, I love it when he's so masterful

 

[JanetAnne]

3 hours ago, brundallNavy said:

I think that it was originally varnished but had been taken back and epoxied.  Going to be a big job now to replace.

Doug.

That is my only concern. We need to stain first to harmonise the colour differences in the various planks and I am worried that the stain will affect the epoxy bond.

[LondonRascal]

You can Varnish over stained wood, so I see no reason why you cannot use Epoxy over it too.

I am not sure if you are just using Epoxy as a clear coat 'finish in one', or building up a couple of layers of Epoxy that is then flatted back between and varnished over.  Although the Epoxy  does give some UV protection, additional coats of Varnish will provide a lot more and would prevent the Epoxy from yellowing and preserves the adhesion of the Epoxy to the wood.

 

[BroadScot]

When all else fails JA, Just paint it all WHITE!!!!  Oh and yes, more cricket watching today!

Iain

[JawsOrca]

We west(ed) my sailing boat "Jessica"'s decks. New ply.. the first coat was thinned right down and it was fine.. We put an 80g weave on top though.  West is a bit of a con though and there are others which is just as good (EP or one from eastcoastfibreglass). I've not tried to epoxy bear timer as Robin suggests and I'd be surprised if it didn't discolour.. All honestly I'd look for a good two pack epoxy based varnish which is designed (i.e has UV stabliser's) in to do the job.  Oh thankfully now we have plastic boats and all we have to do is wash them lol!!

[JanetAnne]

2 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

You can Varnish over stained wood, so I see no reason why you cannot use Epoxy over it too.

I am not sure if you are just using Epoxy as a clear coat 'finish in one', or building up a couple of layers of Epoxy that is then flatted back between and varnished over.  Although the Epoxy  does give some UV protection, additional coats of Varnish will provide a lot more and would prevent the Epoxy from yellowing and preserves the adhesion of the Epoxy to the wood.

 

If the grain is already full of varnish the epoxy resin will not soak in as it should which would lead to a poorer bond.

We would look to build up with epoxy followed by varnish coats to protect it.

[LondonRascal]

I like the idea of the Epoxy (whatever the brand) being used as a base to build up from if you are dealing with virgin wood, or wood you have stripped back completely.  The reason is, by using this to begin you are effectively 'plasticising' the the wood in a type of 'Polymer case'. By then sanding this back, the product remains within the grain of the wood doing its thing that the Varnish can then cover and build up its own level of protection.

This means over time, as the Varnish requires sanding back and applying further coats the original Polymer protection remains underneath keeping the wood from rotting.  The Varnish therefore becomes a finishing product that doubles as a protecting layer that also is sacrificial over time and easy to re-apply - if time consuming.

 

 

[LondonRascal]

2 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

If the grain is already full of varnish the epoxy resin will not soak in as it should which would lead to a poorer bond.

We would look to build up with epoxy followed by varnish coats to protect it.

Indeed - which is what I meant. The Epoxy goes on first, then the Varnish layers over it so if some thing is Varnished already all of that Varnish needs to be sanded back before thinking about using Epoxy. 

[JanetAnne]

But, because we need to stain the wood first, the epoxy route may not be right for us. 

It's all interesting stuff though

[LondonRascal]

Have a look at this attached PDF - interesting stuff about epoxy over stained wood.

Ew21epoxyadhesion.pdf