Wussername

Interesting post. What is a nominated skipper! And, of what?

The MAIB has stated that it does not have the authority to pass legislation based on its findings with regard to an incident and as far as I am aware neither does the Broads Authority. On the 23rd May there will be a further inquest into the Yarmouth tragedy to be held at the Norwich Coroners Court An inquest is generally concerned with fact finding and is not a trial or fault finding process. The coroner’s court does not pass legislation. At the conclusion of an inquest the Coroner may decide, in certain limited circumstances, that action may need to be taken to prevent or reduce the possibility of further fatalities and send a report to any authority with power to take such action. "the power to take such action" is not to be ignored. Such action could impact on the hire industry and also the private sector.. Both sectors would be well advised to offer a constructive contribution towards such a situation with positive and reasoned suggestions. Andrew

It would seem from the general consensus of opinion that most if not all those who have commented on this subject would favour a revisit to the whole issue of the handover or so called trial run. Where opinion does differ is which or what new approach should be considered. Some 50 years ago nearly any person who worked on the boat yard could be asked “Would you take Mr A N Other down river for a few minutes and show him the ropes” and in this respect that is exactly what happened. The person who carried out the trial run would have had no formal training whatsoever. In fact his training or knowledge was obtained by that age old adage of “see one, do one, teach one.” Thus it was no surprise that each and every employee on the yard would have his own particular take or unique way of imparting his skill and knowledge of boating. He was neither taught how to teach, or establish priorities as part of the process. Every trial run would be different, it was the same on every boat yard and trial runs were conducted differently on each individual boat yards. Throughout Broadland, North and South everybody did it differently. I have not had a trial run for many years, more years than I like to remember, but my belief is that very little has changed. There is no common format to the trial run unlike learning to fly a private aeroplane or motor car. It is pot luck what you get and I sometimes watch people arriving at a mooring, leaving a mooring and come to the simple conclusion that they have not been shown how to do it. Next time you are at Ranworth, Womack, Reedham wherever stand on the bank and watch. It is NOT all about speed, they have been told to do it slowly. Watch carefully, at some time during the manoeuvre from a virtually stationery position they will, from the throttle put an enormous amount of ENERGY into the boat in a relatively confined situation. They have little understanding of which way, direction, the boat is going and which way their stern is going. That is the important bit. The boat itself is not speeding, the stern certainly is, it is scything round in an alarming manner, out of control containing a huge amount of kinetic energy. It is that energy which is absorbed, fragmented, and dispersed into your boat causing huge amounts of damage. There must be a clear understanding between all parties of a defined objective of the trial run. The health and safety of people must have precedence over all other matters, followed by the protection and respect of people’s property. This can only be achieved by a delegated authority establishing criteria’s and standards of behaviour which is identifiable and recognised by all. Trial Run drivers and boat owners, both private and hires would have to conform to this standard. Thus, irrespective of which hire fleet you leave from you will have had a basic tuition covering identical and relevant practice. The boatyard would be able to add to this standard if they should wish. This will only be achieved by having trial run drivers who have a recognised accreditation with regard to their skills and ability to impart that knowledge. There are other factors which must be taken into consideration. There are those who argue, suggest, that we should adopt a test of competence and certification for those who conform and pass. They would then be granted privileges to cruise our rivers. I think that this is fundamentally wrong and unworkable. That which I believe should be given consideration is for hirers to have a log book of experience. Dated and signed by a dedicated and recognised trial run driver. The very first question the trial run instructor will ask is have you been before. That will determine your progress through the system and the instructor’s course of action. If you answer that you have been several times you will be asked if you really need a trail run. There will be demonstrated actual proof to the instructor that there is a history, an audit trail of experience. In this respect if you reply positively that you feel confident then your “log book” would be signed and stamped and you would then be fast tracked through the system and allowed on your way. No system is foolproof, and in its initial stages open to abuse by a minority. There are those who arrive on the boatyard with years of experience who can legitimately claim “Grandfather Rights” and by their demeanour, their approach and general knowledge would easily be able to convince a seasoned instructor of their sincerity and honesty and be granted that privilege in the first stages of the scheme of being considered capable of having to have an actual river instruction to be considered unnecessary. Those who choose to convince an instructor of ability, experience, knowledge, that does not exist can subsequently in the event of an incident can expect serious consequences. Heavy fines, court fees and reimbursement to those who have been financially disadvantaged by their actions. All craft should carry an incident report form to be completed and sent to a recognised authority where a situation exits where one or both parties involved consider it necessary. This would serve the purpose of recording the frequency of such incidents and an audit trail of events, circumstances, injuries and damaged caused. This in effect would place greater emphasis on accountability and disciplines that exist on our waterways. For those who leave an incident refusing to exchange details when requested could expect to be pursued with a possible fine or other measures taken. It would also enable a version of events to be challenged. Thus there would exist accountability and consequences for the minority who treat behaviour and conduct with such disregard. In conclusion the above is not a panacea of all ills but an attempt to achieve some order in a system which has evolved over many year, seen many changes, many values eroded including those of common sense, discipline, communication and consideration.

It will finish naturally on its own accord. All topics fade away eventually. Then, sometimes as new people join, the wheel it seems gets reinvented as if nothing had happened in the past. Then someone will make that which they assume is the definitive post followed by a request that the topic be closed. It never does,but will in its own time. That is the way of forums. Andrew

Thanks NDY. I have down loaded. Thank you.

Years ago,in the days of the sail drifter haddock was dumped as a inferior catch. Times have changed.

And niether do I........

Your experience I'm afraid is not unusual, and needs to be recognised and addressed. The trial run needs to be revisited. It is an integral and most important part of the visitors experience. Neglected by many boatyards in years gone past. Those years have gone.

As a matter of interest I looked up the statistics involving a range of recreational pursuits throughout the UK. Pursuits like hill walking, fell walking, a gentle climb up a little mountain in say Wales or Scotland. Or a family outing in the wilderness (such a definition exists in the UK). Skiing, horse riding, surf boarding, swimming, football rugby; you name it there will be an accident. I read somewhere that there is a so called mountain rescue every day. Indeed helicopters, ambulances, police, coast guards, life boats are an essential part of our daily lives. The incident on Breydon was no exception. Several souls were rescued from a very cold, uncomfortable experience. Some of the crew on these two boats were vulnerable, very vulnerable. There situation would only have deteriorated. In this respect the emergency controllers coordinated a most fantastic response that day. No different I have to say from countless emergencies they have to deal with. Cost does not come into it throughout their area in the UK. Norfolk is no different. It has the same problems and issues as every National Park, every recreational area, and has the same entitlement when presented with people in distress. Should we try and limit this expense this commitment of resources here on the Broads. Of course we should. And we do. However. A hovercraft on Breydon is not going to resolve the problem, and would serve no use whatsoever, certificates, extra leaflets for the helm to read, certification of competence, will serve no purpose Many of these suggestions, including one I read albeit on another forum, of closing Breydon to those on the Northern Rivers. What nonsense. There tends to be a knee jerk reaction to certain issues. Some of which require a degree of reflection, consideration.

A difficult time. Many, including myself have experienced this particular loss. Very difficult, very hard. There is sorrow enough in the natural way From men and women to fill our day; And when we are certain of sorrow in store, Why do we always arrange for more? Brothers and Sisters, I bid you beware Of giving your heart to a dog to tear. Rudyard Kipling. The Power of the dog.

Basically, it is simply not achievable and will not be for a long, long time.

Oh! I can feel a jar of honey coming on.. I know that you are a kind man. Generous to a fault. But there comes a time. Right is right. A bit of honey would not go amiss. Tell the blighter, a bit of entente cordiale would go some way towards future relations regarding our overall understanding of our differences. Viva la France, and all those East of Scroby Sands. OW.

Fisherman used to knit. Long hours at sea. The Lowestoft deep sea trawler men used to knit. My grandfather was a trawler skipper. He showed me how to knit but not very well.

I think that you are right.

Mountain climbing, hill climbing, swimming , horse riding, in fact all recreational activies have bumps and nudges. Boating is no different Knitting is a passive occupation, so is embroidery, strongly advised for those of a nervous disposition. Andrew

Nudges are frequent. Crashes are very few. May I ask what is rhe difference between a nudge and a crash? Andrew

Confused.

As promised I am now in a position after much deliberation and research to enlighten you as to a different slight on the actual meaning of “do not cast clout until May is out”. There will of course be the usual hoots of derision from those who do not support the Flat Earth Society and other reputable organisations of repute. A clout of course is a fishing lure, designed on the fall, to provide an irresistible shimmy to the fish. To cast is to take a measured and controlled stance on the river side, bank or river if wearing substantial wellies, lob the lure in a calculated manner to fall within an inch from the fishes nose. (this may explain why they don’t seem to catch much) May? The month, May the flower or perhaps the Mayfly. Who knows? There you have it. Now. A bit of silliness in these difficult times. A conundrum. Those who know the answer immediately, just say I know the answer, or not answer at all, do not spoil it for others. You are travelling down the river Bure. You wish to go to Womack. You have been told to ask for directions as to when you need to turn. You will meet twins at Ranworth. Young men who will advise if you ask. The Ant, or the Thurne? One twin will always tell the truth. One twin will always tell a lie, deliberately an untruth. What is the question you need to ask, just one question, to either brother to arrive at the truth.

It is getting late. I am tired. Had a couple of tonsil rinses. A most delightful red from the Barroso Valley. Surreptitiously i had an additional little swifty when my present dealy beloved retired to bed. In the west wing. I sleep in the east wing. I will enlighten you further tomorrow on this most interesting subject......hic! Andrew

Or, something else?

Is it May the month, or May the flower?

Don't cast clout till May is out. It is cold. Bitter cold winds. There is warmth in the sun. However, it brings comfort but a welcome to a summer which is several weeks away. Even then it may be a false dawn. We can only wait and see. But what does the the phrase actually mean. Andrew

Steady Grendel. Do NOT upset our Ladies who Lunch They are a feisty lot. Not to be messed with !

Interesting Fred. Please make time. Andrew

Funny things batteries. Be at a car or a boat, as soon as you try to start it you know, you just know things are not as they should be. Last gasp, it starts. You don't need to test it, you don't need an engineer to do a drop test (whatever that is) you just know. I believe that any engineer, on any boatyard, worth his salt, knows exactly the state of the boat or boats that he is responsible for, and that includes battery's. I also believe that some boat yards do not carry out preventive maintenance, planned maintenance. Well it is not an airplane is it? Not going to crash at 27000 ft, is it? On demand seems to be the way to go. It is a trip from Potter to Ranworth, by road, by van, to fit a new battery, or a recharged battery. In the scheme of things not that expensive.