Mowjo

The Funny thing is Polly, it was a surveyor checking a woody that first made me wonder about them, here's the picture, Wayford Marina around 30 years ago, big old woody out for a survey, Surveyor, new owner and me! surveyor starts his checks, new owner and me sitting on oil cans drinking tea, Surveyor appears two hours later and tells new owner everything inside seems fine but he did find some minor rot and a bit of damp in one cabin but it's nothing worth worrying about, more tea and surveyor starts on the outside, what's that I say to him! Oh it's a damp tester you stick the prongs in and it tells you how damp something is, owner and me watching intently and listening as it bleeped away while he was testing just above the waterline, the next sentence from the surveyor had me rolling on the floor, his exact words were! "You have severe damp from the waterline down, I kid you not, me being my usual smart A**e said to him "No S**t Sherlock you do know the boat was only lifted four hours ago do you think that could be anything to do with it? silence and more tea! new owner say to me do you think he knows what he's doing, I say you hired him you tell me, we wander off and leave him to it, off the surveyor goes and a few days later the report was in, he gave it a clean bill of health apart from the little bit of rot no mention of the wet waterline, and no mention of the cutlass bearing that was severely worn and only held on by one single bolt or the loose rudder caused by rot, something I personally discovered a month later when I was helping the new owner anti-foul the boat, the new owner tried to get his money back from the surveyor even resorting to legal threats but no joy nothing, I can't remember exactly how much the repairs cost the new owner but was over 1k the whole of the Stern around the rudder stock and where the cutlass bearing bracket fitted were rotten and you could actually stick a screwdriver right through the hull, and to this day that's the reason I don't trust surveyors, now I know enough about boats to do my own survey and stick to insurance company's that don't need one,,, Frank,,,

Nah! I never bite Rince, I'm just curious why people put so much faith in Surveys now we have the BSS, the guy that did mine went over it with a fine toothed comb, the only thing he didn't check was the hull and prop, so I can't see why insurance company's insist on surveys on inland boats, Frank,,,,

Cat among the Pigeons time, you just knew I would do it didn't you? can someone please explain what a survey actually proves?? for me the only thing they are needed for is insurance with some company's, or if you are a first time buyer, on sea going boats I can see it, but on Broads or inland ones I see no point, you pay £500 for the lift out and survey but what does the survey actually tell you? if it has a fairly new BSS all the safety issues like fuel tanks, electrics and gas are covered by that, most people know if the engine is ok just by running it and listening to it! you can see if the woodwork is rotten just by poking it or looking at it, so what's left? the Hull and prop shaft, people get scared by Osmosis anyone ever heard of a boat sinking because of it? even some new boats have it after a year or two, do you really need a surveyor to tell you your 30 year old boat has some? if the prop-shaft or prop is on the way out you can normally tell because of the vibration from them, I've never needed a survey and don't trust them, I know at least two people that paid a lot for one only for serious problems to happen a few weeks/months down the line that should have been picked up by the survey, did they have any come back, no! because the survey is subject to the Surveyors view and what one will say is fine another will condemn, if you buy a fifteen year old car you know you will have problems with it, yet people buy boats that are anything from twenty to fifty years old and expect everything to be like new and no problems, I certainly wouldn't waste money on a survey for a boat under 10k unless I was totally new to boating, I just can't see what a survey proves now we have the BSS and common sense, if something doesn't feel right about a boat when you buy it, trust your gut feeling your probably right,, don't worry I have broad shoulders and can take the flack I'm going to get from this one,, Frank,,,

Great job there Barry! looks like all those YEARS of work have paid off, we saw you know who in Asda a few months ago and he said it was coming along nicely. I hope he appreciates all the work you've put in or he will have to deal with Judi, I'll be keeping an eye out for her around Broadsedge I don't want you lot scratching the gel coat on my new/old boat, I have a lot of varnish work to do and if it comes up like yours I'll be happy, I'm trying some new varnish on this one so it's going to be a bit experimental, hopefully we will see you all out and about in the near future,, Frank,,,

Sometimes when someone says to me how can you afford it, normally non boaters I have to add, I'll say, do you go away for your Holidays? do you go out for meals? do you smoke? do you go away for weekends, do you go to shows or football matches and quite a few more do you's? they normally say Yes to at least three or more, then I say to them I don't do any of them, I have a boat 52 weeks of the year, case closed,,, Frank,,,,,

Eric! I don't know if it's the way I was bought up, but one thing always sticks in my mind is something my Dad said to me when I first started work, it was "you'll soon learn in life that if you want something bad enough you'll have to make sacrifices" we had a little break from owning a boat for a few years, then I wanted to get back into it, I was working and we had a little savings so we could afford to buy a budget boat but not enough to run it as we lived in London, at the time I smoked 40 Cigs a day, I instantly gave up smoking and Judi gave up her couple of nights at Bingo, the money I saved paid for our trip to the Broads every two weeks, it was a struggle to get the boat how I wanted it, and it took me four years to do it, but I got there in the end, it was back in around 1987 and the boat I paid £5000 for I sold for £12000 five years later, I never do boats for profit, I do them because I love doing it, the upside is selling them all for profit has allowed me to have boats for the last thirty years, we have only lived in Lowestoft for the last ten years so most of it was done while I lived in London, I suppose what I'm trying to say is if you want something bad enough, you can often do it if you want it bad enough,,,, Frank,,,,,

Mmmmm! Big Submarines, Ballast, Me! 10 billion bricks! anyone got the MOD's phone number, I can sell the cement to Waveney Council, while there's a bit of sand left they could concrete over the beaches, and save a fortune importing sand every year, Sorted! now anyone want to hire two brickies before I lay them off, Frank,,,,

Andy! we have loads in our Marina and it makes me sad and angry at the same time, I'm sad because I know they are usually in that state because the owner can't afford them or it could be I'll health or other reasons, but then I get angry because I think why keep them if your not going to use them, the average size boat must cost around £1500 a year just to have it sitting in the water doing nothing, I'm sure that most of the Greenies only need a bit of TLC to bring them back, and there are loads of first timers out there looking for a budget way to get on the Broads, I'm kind of lucky because I can see past the Crud and often think that boat could be a beauty with a bit of time and TLC spent on it, we often get asked how we manage to own and run a boat on a state pension, for me it's two reasons, first we only live half hour away so travel cost is minimum, and second every boat I've owned we've bought cheap, I've put time and effort into them and as little money as I can get away with into them, then sold at a good profit usually because someone had made me an offer it's hard to refuse, if we still lived in London there's no way I'd be able to afford a boat now, so I'm one of the lucky ones that lives localish and has plenty of time on my hands to improve what we call greenies, Frank,,,,

And what makes it even worse Dave! is I'm now stuck with 10 billion bricks, 1 million bags of cement and the two Brickies that I had ready to build the wall, I knew the outcome would cause unemployment, now I'll have to sell my bricks and cement to China for repairs on their wall,.. Frank,,,,,

More so with a boat Watershed because you'll use it more, cost my daughter £70 most weekends to travel up to her boat and back to London every other weekend,, Frank,,,,

Iain! a lot of people buy a boat and use it as it is, as you know by now I'm not one of them, if you don't include my time actually getting a boat how I want it, I've managed to make a profit on my last six boats, and as I love doing the work I look on it as a hobby anyway, you can figure in things like Batteries, Fridges and Cookers, but in my experience the cost really shoots up with the odd £20 here, £30 there, I've just ordered some Vanish stripper, Varnish and various sand papers, £150 gone with a click of a button, needs new lights £100 plus to change, needs a new battery another £80 the list goes on and the Bank balance goes down, Judi reckons if I had a boat built to Order I'd change everything, all I can say is if your a get on and go boater great, but if your like me and like changing bits to suit your needs, be prepared to dig deep in your pockets, because it ain't cheap,,,, Frank,,,,,

Tell me about it Andy! we havn't even taken ownership of our new/old boat yet, Judi wants a new Cooker and Isotherm Fridge, Yup! just over £1000 for the two and that's without all the other bits she wants, I think last count it was around 2.2k,, but that's with a service and a few bits I want to change, I reckon my 8k boat is going to end up costing me another 4k to get it how I want it,, Frank,,,,,

Apart from two weeks we spent out with two others boats and an odd week, the rest was made up from odd days here and there, saying Odd days I mean we out at least four days every week, we are both retired so why sit at home and watch four wall when you can be out on your boat,,, Frank,,,,

Right here's what happened the first year we owned our Hampton 25, we were out for a total of 165 days, (we only live 1/2 hour away) if you work it out that's just over 23 weeks on the water, if I hired at say £800 a week it would have cost me £18400 for that season, even buying the boat paying for the moorings, Insurance, river tax, service and buying all the cutlery, bed stuff and everything else, my boat paid for itself in the first year, I know you can't compare my usage to most peoples normal usage, what I am trying to say is work out how much usage you will get out of your boat, if it's just a few weeks a year with the odd weekend, I'd say hire don't buy, my estimate of 3k a year to own is just to have it sitting on the water, as someone said there are a lot of boats sitting out there never being used because people can't afford to use them,, Frank,,,,

Iain! it's SWMBO's Job to do the accounts, I just pay for it,, Frank,,,

Jim! our Hampton 25 cost us around £1500 a year, for moorings, river tax and insurance, add to that around £200 for a yearly service, and as we were out all the time around £200 for diesel, £150 for pump outs and around £50 for electric cards, So ours worked out about £2200 a year, and don't forget to factor in your fuel cost for getting back and forth to the boat, and do what Dave says and have a boat fund to cover things like the BSS every four years and some back up money if something goes wrong with the boat, £3000 should more than cover it, so could you please send me the spare £3000,, Frank,,,,,

Have to agree Strow! there are some cracking Freeman 23's out there for sale, I love them! once you see the interior of a good Freeman it's love at first sight and the beauty is a lot are original gel-coat, I don't think I know of any that have been on hire fleets, and most Freeman owners tend to look after them, if Steve is looking for a smaller boat you can't go far wrong with the 23, the only downside is most have Porta Potty's and no hot water, but there are some that have them! you just have to look for them, personally I don't care if they are petrol or diesel, they are Ideal for two people but on Dragonfly we did manage six once, four adults and two kids, three in the front bunk two in the middle and me in the cockpit, as you like 23ft Strow do I take it your a Freeman man?? I found other owners a bit precious with their Freemans and love to keep everything original, a couple in our marina nearly had a fit when I changed all my instruments for modern ones, but I did sell them for £200 even though most of them didn't work, seems there's a premium for old Smiths Instruments, I know a lot of people are wary of Edward William but I've been with them for years, had a couple of claims and they paid out without question, and as you point out they don't need a survey, I certainly have no problem using them,, Frank,,,,,

We're are Tough here in Norfolk Watershed, Steam, Coal, Elastic Bands and those Flappy things, Jenny has tried them all,,,

Nah! not tight Steve, 8.5k can still buy you a lot of boat, and when you cost it out that extra 3ft it only makes a couple of hundred £ different, and don't forget your the man with the money so you can make offers, cash is King, ours was up for £8950 but Jude offered £8k and it was accepted, I reckon that if you look at a 24 then see the difference that extra 3ft will make you'll end up with a 27, I'm lucky Jude's good at haggling and has always managed to knock the price down anything from 1k to 2.5k the worst that can happen if you make a low offer is they turn you down, if you really want it you can up it a bit until you both arrive at a fair price,,, as the Meercat says! Simples,,,, Frank,,,,,

Steve! I have dealt with that Marina before and found them pretty good, now I have an Idea of your budget I'll keep my eyes open for you, I'm always on the boat sites looking at what's out there, I don't know if your interested in a boat a little bigger but if you are take a look at this one, it was one we were going to look at but the Seamaster came up first, it was still up for sale on Sunday because he rang us for us to go and see it,http://www.elysianboats.co.uk/#/boats-for-sale/4566262532

I wouldn't be so sure Watershed! I crossed it once with an old Seagull Forty Plus and if I remember they were only 2 to 3HP, I reckon Peter could cross Breydon with a couple of lolly sticks and an elastic band if he had to,,,, Frank,,,, PS. I forgot to mention my boat was a Seamaster Cadet 24ft and a dead engine,,,,

I know a good Brickie if your serious about keeping them out, at least his won't fall down like Hadrians,,,, Frank,,,,,

Steve! don't rush into buying a boat, there's nothing wrong with Petrol ones, they run quieter than diesels, it's just inconvenient having to carry jerry cans, I've owned three now, give me a half inch spanner a packet of fag papers and I can usually fix them, but like any petrol engines you can tend to get a few more problems with them, usually on the ignition side and usually something silly like an HT lead or the coil, but you have to be methodic in tracing the fault and if your not into doing it yourself, you can knock up quite a big bill just tracing the faults if a yard does it, Most diesel engines are pretty bullet proof even the old ones, the three of them I've owned have been no real problem, so far only the Seamaster 813 needed anything doing and that was down to a dirty fuel filter, the downside is they are noisier than petrol, now the good news! if you keep your eyes open you can now find boats that did have petrol engines in, have had diesel replacements like this one,, http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/advert/freeman-23-032-freeman-23-norfolk-broads/41905895 that's just an example as I don't know what your budget is, but if you don't mind doing a bit of work or if your lucky you can find them cheaper, just don't fall into that gotta have a boat trap, lots of us have been there, take your time and you'll find a good one, as I said before it's coming to the end of the season and lots of boats will be coming up for sale now,,,, Frank,,,

Thank you Bill! you got the point over so much better than I did, my incident with Breydon was back in 89, I havn't seen any big stuff around for a while now apart from the Dredgers and dredging pontoons, in the end no matter if It's Breydon or anywhere else on the Broads, all we are really saying is Be Careful out there and don't take anything for granted,,, Frank,,,, Peter! don't mention Oulton Broad to me! last time I went there I nearly got taken out by an out of control speedboat, the look on the Drivers face was, I'm gonna die, I'm sure he took a layer of paint off my boat,

Sorry I'm going to disagree here! it can be B****y daunting and dangerous even for experienced helms, even we can get it wrong, I've lost count of the times I've crossed Breydon in my thirty years. 99% of them have been no problem, but Breydon and the weather can be very unpredictable, the 1% that nearly got me was a mid evening crossing in perfect weather, I got about 400 metres past the bridge heading towards Oulton, out of no-where a fog came down from no-where and I couldn't see 20 feet in front of the boat, decision time! drop a mudweight or carry on, I took the chance and carried on because I had crossed dozens of times and had a rough idea of where I was heading, now my Judi doesn't swear much so when I heard her say Ooooh F**k I knew something was wrong, as I looked to my Port side about ten feet away I could just make out the side of a very, very large Boat/Ship I presume from the Beet Factory, it just appeared from no-where, to say a change of underwear was needed is an understatement because if I had dropped the mudweight where I was going to or been ten feet to Port the chances are we could both easily be dead now, don't get me wrong! I havn't put this here to scare anyone, get it right and it's a fairly easy crossing, what I am saying is never underestimate the dangers of crossing Breydon that can happen due to unforeseen circumstances, In fact never underestimate any part of the Broads it can bite you in the bum when you least expect it,,, Frank,,,