marshman

Perhaps Dnks34 your views are coloured by reading this Forum - perhaps others have a wider view from other sources too!! And yes Polly of course you are right and I did not mean as he suggested!!!!

But then Peter, as you probably know, and others will be able to confirm, there are very many managers around who begin with absolutely no knowledge of either the area or indeed the job. Frequently the worst thing to happen is that as with many many public sector jobs, promotion is from within and those promoted come with all the issues and problems of those they supercede! In the private sector where I worked, I have seen all sorts come and go, and to be honest, those that knew nothing ultimately were seen to have made some of the better decisions, as they were no hide bound or indeed influenced by preconceived ideas. As they say we shall see but no one is irreplaceable!!

Peter - you know as well as I do that there are many many reasons why people move on and she has lived through the "politics" for years without suffering!! I believe she is moving right away from the area - up north.

Rebel sailing is just for wimps!!!

Trouble also Robin is that none of my younger children, and I have two, have any interaction with Facebook at all!! They don't use it, look at it, or correspond with their mates on it!! They complain that Facebook is for "oldies" !!!

You are right Pete, but I was referring to the written judgment which should now be available as to the legal reasons why he lost and why the BA did nothing legally wrong in what they did in calling the Broads a NP for marketing purposes.

I understand Mr Harris has lost his right to appeal the judgement given earlier over the use of the National Park name, and been refused leave to appeal further. Hopefully this is now the end of the matter. Hope he is paying and not the Nav Account. I am sure there are those who will wish to delve through the judgement and legal gobbledegook but I cannot yet find it on the Court of Appeal website - or I cannot look in the right place!

Just out of interest, I wonder where you are taking your 35' next year - I looked and could not find anywhere cheaper except the Medway?

And yet every private owner says the multiplier is too low and why should the private owners subsidise the hire yards even more? Other threads elsewhere suggest that the bigger hire yards are making too much money!! Clearly that does not apply to everyone as this illustrates. Yet another bites the dust - sadly. Begs the question then why the Broads multiplier is as high as it is and yet on other waterways ( some I have checked ) it is lower? Do we want, or need, a hire boat industry? I think its crucial but others may say differently particularly if they think only of their own tolls?

Dont worry Peter, whatever happens I will be long long gone!! Do I care a lot? No not a lot especially as I do not think it will make much difference!! Any significant, and real change, will take forever. With European funding going and probably not available from Whitehall for at least 10 years, or longer as they will not be that high up on the priority list, a strong connection to the National Parks grouping may be more beneficial to finding alternative funding. Or not as the case may be!

Speedtriple - I admire your resolve and clearly you are well versed in the art of achieving at and behaving at public meetings, For what it is worth and in my long experience, that is EXACTLY how to have minimal effect and have everyone ignore you!! But there, it takes all sorts. JP is a past master at coping at public meetings and well versed with dealing with abusive members of the public. You might do well to listen to the advice of old sages such as PW who does achieve, and is well known for so doing, but by approaching it slightly differently!! P.S. I hope then Bovril does not go up or the CEO of Unilever may hear from you!!

Speedtriple and dnks34 - don't forget your views are yours alone and I guess there are others who may have other views. If of course dnks34 you have evidence as to corruption, no doubt you will trot off from in front of your computer, and down to the local plod shop. Whilst I hate how quangos work and don't always agree either, the BA is no worse than most other publically run bodies, and that includes parts of the NHS. Are some of the Trade Union organisations also exempt from your unfounded outpourings? Speedtriple - I accept some of your comments about the Thames but the BA is not just responsible for the navigation is it? Perhaps you should read up on the other parts of its remit. And like it or not my comments are relevant because as yet not one poster has been able to convince me to move my boat, however much I too hate to pay the increase. Its so so easy to sit behind an anonymous computer screen and reading the comments of a few diehard protagonists think you speak for other than a small minority - but there is always another side to every story and thats not always apparent from some posters. And oh by the way, are you still buying Marmite??

Oh and if you think i am being selective, the Thames licence is 40% higher (and yes i know that includes Lock keepers!!!)

MM - the voice of reason yet again!! A totally lost cause - as you say all he is doing is what many asked for. And of course the charges are totally unreasonable. So all this talk of people leaving, my guess in reality is you will be able to count on one hand, or perhaps two, those that do. Where would I go? Yes of course I could go to the Fens and plonk it on the Gt Ouse - like the Ouse a lot but not sure about the other connected bits. High banks and pretty uninspiring landscapes except in places. OOps - my toll for 16/17 is some 20% higher. What a bargain the Broads seem. Lets try elsewhere - how about the Medway. Ah here we go this is cheaper about 60% cheaper . Any snags? Is a 28km waterway length a problem - only if i want to go anywhere!! Yes I know I can go downstream into the tidal waters but its not quite the same is it in my boat!! And its pretty tidal - did i say pretty? Pretty down from Allington to the Medway Towns so i will stay overnight in the Dockyard at Chatham. Its only £34 but thankfully I get free electricity Of course I could go to Lowestoft but i gave up the sea for something more leisurely. However lake Lothing is very nice and there is lots of places i can go in my twin screw Princess I can go out and turn right to that spectacular place up the coast or better still go for the weekend in Southwold. Great like that idea - trouble is overnight charges come in at £31and overnight the weather changed and I have to leave the boat down there. Only cost though a taxi there and back next weekend.Or is it the weekend after as the weather gets no better. Oh and the cost of a marina berth in Lowestoft is about 20% more than I pay now. I too do not like the increases but to talk of court action.......! Fantasy Island and not a leg to stand on comes to mind, even if I have complained too!!

Strange that, the Broads I use don't seem to have got smaller, except in the 60's I used to go up to Honing Common quite a bit, but sadly, like me, my boat has got fatter!!!

How did waste creep into this?? By all means get the BA involved more (meaning the councils would "dump" responsibility) on the first available hand to be raised but you cannot have it all ways - making the BA responsible would eat up ALL of the increase in any Navigation budget!! Guys , with respect you cannot have it all ways 1) you all moaned years ago saying that a higher poll on smaller boats including dinghies was driving them off the waterways and discouraging youngsters. I cannot be bothered to find the tirades about that at the time but there were plenty from some posting here! Now your wish has been granted...!! 2) you now seemingly want the BA to take the initiative and to control the waste disposal issue which incidentally is actually legally the responsibility of the councils. From the info already shown, they are talking to councils and trying to do it at minimum cost but have any of YOU tried to talk to councils when all they want to do as a priority, is preserve THEIR pensions and golden handshakes?? 3) and now you are saying they are responsible for tourism!!! And your polls are only going up by around 15/20%???? Please please be careful what you say and wish for!!!!!!

What they all fail to mention is that there are rowing boats, and rowing boats!! Some move much more easily than others and if you have a short fat one, then that will row much less easily than a long thin one - for obvious reasons! Much will also depend on your skill and despite the optimism of some of these posters you will find the tide on the Thurne DOES flow quite quickly - indeed it flows south of Potter Bridge probably as fast as the Bure up towards St Benets. Or IMHO for whats that worth!!! Its ok just looking at it from atop a 40hp diesel but its a different kettle of fish closer to the water. Try tacking even one of Hunters finest up that stretch against the tide and its pretty hard work - the gains can be tiny unless its a reasonable breeze and a stiff breeze and a tide against you would reduce your rowing pace to a snails unless you have a rowing skiff! However tides do ease so check the tide tables and do not expect an easy time at peak flows. To put it another way, they are plenty of much better places to row in Broadland!! Any of the Broads, upstream of Horning, almost all of the Ant north of Ludham Bridge and indeed the Thurne itself on Horsey or Hickling Broads. I hate to contradict any of my learned posters but I once tried quanting a yacht from Candle Dyke to Dungeon Corner against the flow and was completely and utterly shafted - no flow? You must be bloomin' joking!!!!!!!

Richard - you are quite correct. I remember seeing an Asset Plan relatively recently somewhere where all these were shown and with all the dates - it is indeed due to be repiled where necessary near the end of the lease so my guess is negotiations are currently ongoing. However don't assume that these will be lost - they do not have here the competition of a pub landlord eager to force more punters into his pocket!! I am not really sure how these things actually work in practise but presumably the value or the price they can pay for moorings is not something the BA can actually decide - I recall reading that they are advised largely by some other department - does the District Valuer get involved or do they even still exist? But going back to Pete's point, the situation has not changed so its not really creeping! The lease at Cockshoot is to the NWT and rather than the BA, it would always have been their decision - it was their decision to dam the dyke but even I can never remember that Broad being open for navigation. Knowing who owns all of that, it would seem unlikely. Shame really, over the top of all of this thread, is the fact that this is "Private Land" and once again these large private landowners will shape the future of Broadland whether you or I like it or not, and if they want to ignore everyone, they will continue to do so, as they have in the past. And thats a real shame because they rarely act for the benefit of everyone.

Pete - you would say that, others would say that the Broads is not just about boats. Surely one of the beauty of the Broads is that there is room for both, and indeed you know that as well as anyone, but it suits your agenda to post what you did - in fact it would be a good strap line for anyone wishing to stand on an anti BA ticket when elections are available. Having a good slogan these days is a key to winning any vote, be it based on fact or fantasy - but why let a little detail like that get in the way of a jolly good ramp up!!! Someone today has a lot to be grateful for, as people cared less about fact but let themselves be " inspired " by fantasy rhetoric!!

Correct - there was talk about reopening it ( but not to boats ) but that all went very quiet. To be fair, the dyke is generally very clear and full of bugs etc which may well not benefit from such action !!

Oh and those Skippers of the trip boats now have to jump through more than several hoops to get their licence these days I believe they come under MCA rules and they are defo harder than the normal BA licensing!!

Realistically guys, and with respect to Mark, was the ferry EVER going to be anything other than a play thing! How could it ever make enough money to even pay the diesel bill? Ok perhaps on a sunny Sunday afternoon but any other time???

Of course there is a solution - the solution is to turn them into the type of place that people WANT to go out of season - the trouble is that that does not necessarily mean the same sort of place the holidaymakers would want to go!! Horning Ferry illustrates just that - whilst I suspect a few diehards will say it IS what they want, the vast majority of locals would not , with respect , be seen dead in the place - although to be fair with a 1* hygiene rating perhaps that is apt! Is it really the sort of place you would go out of your way to go to, in the middle of winter if you wanted a decent meal in pleasant surroundings, and indeed if you did go,would you actually get a meal you could honestly say you enjoyed it so much, you would go back again? I agree its horses for courses but whilst the place may well appeal to some, the winter evenings often look a bit thin!! A business will struggle to survive if it has to resort to "forcing" people into their bar by closing the moorings opposite - shame its reputation does not precede it and they go voluntarily!! Of course some love it but its not for me!!!

Glad you found that then, Mr W !! P.S. If you wander past the Excelsior Yard at the moment you will see her with no knickers, or to be more precise, without her sternpost! The last really major project - at least for a year or so I believe!!

i sailed over about 60% earlier this year in a Rebel and to be honest , only touched very occasionally.. And yes there are spots of weed but like many of the Broads the weed growth except around the margins and a few other places you wouldn't probably go, is limited too. There are a few places where there is weed but generally its pretty sparse over lots of the Broad too although weather conditions can affect that from year to year. It certainly is nothing like it was in the '60's when the Port and Haven Commrs struggled to keep even the channels open. In any case, are we saying weed growth should be banned?? Surely some is acceptable?