Esoteric Saily Question

[Polly]

I asked Hunters, they make most of their own blocks with some bought from Davy & Co very friendly response, Thanks Vicky.

[Polly]

Agree Spider, was considering a back up cleat next to the tube, but then why not just cleat......? Was looking for a combination of security and quick release, but not looking too modern.

[Guest]

You can get tufnol ones which look traditional, but personally I loathe tufnol fittings. The cleat Peter linked looks good to me and not out of place. Or why not use a nice bronze or brass pillar cleat?

[Guest]

Or something like this, if you're feeling very rich!

[Polly]

Peter's link looked right. We do use Tufnol blocks on Brilliant. I think it boils down to sorting the topper as discussed and having an optional lead back for the peak when sailing short-handed. 

I avoid anything too high like a pillar cleat on the cabin top because I ALWAYS hurt my knees on them

 

[Vaughan]

Talking of backstays, you will not see them on a classic Broads River Cruiser such as Brilliant (where I was honoured to have a visit at the Spring meet) as traditional boats such as her are more akin to a wherry. The real strength of the rig is in the size and mass of the mast, the tabernacle and the main deck beam. As it should be, on such a fine, traditional craft, evolved and built for her purpose. Backstays only become necessary when you start enlarging the rig (beyond what it was originally built for) for racing purposes.

The Bermuda rig is different of course, and Peter only needs one halyard on his Drascombe as he has (from photos) what I might call a "standing topsail". I think he is right to suggest that the topping lift is brought aft, as that should give a sufficient "spill" of the sail to bring her easily up to a mooring, and then one can sort out all the other bits of rope in one's own time!

[Polly]

I am assuming, Peter that Spray does have backstay(s)?

 David just checked our archive pictures 1929 onwards, no backstay ever. As Vaughan says, not usual.

[Warp]

I suspect that Peter would have mentioned backstays a couple of years ago if he was serious about them  I for one am not keen on the idea of messing about with a pair of running stays every time I tack, gybe, decide to go down wind, want to change helm balance or get paranoid.

That said I do want to change the overall helm balance more to weather but suspect this is currently more to do with the amount of junk in the trunk than missing stays (which she has never had).

[Warp]

Thanks very much for the links all. I am now looking at €150 bronze cam cleats and €180 halyard cleats I never knew I wanted before...

[JennyMorgan]

We have them on Spray. She's old, 1908, and exceedingly traditional, she came to us with backstays. Using them has become second nature and when belting downwind I really do appreciate them. I don't suppose I could gybe the stick out of her but I certainly feel that the sail sets better in a downwind blow and I'm not straining the old girl. 

[BroadScot]

Well, I am sure most, in not all the stinky types have given this thread a king size body swerve, well you were well warned from the outset! However, part of my remit is to read these threads, to make sure they are above the plimsoll line so to say. I have to congratulate our servers word check, not ONE saily boat word - so far - has been starred out, which just goes to prove, that all these sailys  are very polite people ! Aye ok, we all knew that already!  

Now it appears Warp is going to raid his Christmas piggy bank to buy god knows what ! I thought a Cam was a CAMERA !

Iain

[JennyMorgan]

Iain, is that a challenge then?

[Warp]

We have them on Spray. She's old, 1908, and exceedingly traditional, she came to us with backstays. Using them has become second nature and when belting downwind I really do appreciate them. I don't suppose I could gybe the stick out of her but I certainly feel that the sail sets better in a downwind blow and I'm not straining the old girl. 

Maybe one to think about for the future.

 

2 minutes ago, BroadScot said:

Now it appears Warp is going to raid his Christmas piggy bank to buy god knows what ! I thought a Cam was a CAMERA !

Iain

You can't be a proper stinky and not know what a cam is! Admit it you're really a saily!

I am unlikely to be buying €150 cam cleats but I can dream...

[BroadScot]

1 minute ago, JennyMorgan said:

Iain, is that a challenge then?

Good heavens JM no but I have found it an amazing technical thread of which I know very little....well hee haw to be honest ! Know doubt somewhere in the software will be a word which will be starred out!....Maybe?

Iain

[BroadScot]

6 minutes ago, Warp said:

You can't be a proper stinky and not know what a cam is! Admit it you're really a saily!

Warp, the only yacht I have ever sailed was on the boating lake on Ayr Low Green seafront, sixty years ago !

Iain

[Warp]

1 minute ago, BroadScot said:

Warp, the only yacht I have ever sailed was on the boating lake on Ayr Low Green seafront, sixty years ago !

Iain

That's a long time to be in denial.

[BroadScot]

1 minute ago, Warp said:

That's a long time to be in denial.

It was one of Woolworths finest. Possibly cost 7/- A treat from an uncle of mine, bless him.

[Vaughan]

13 minutes ago, Warp said:

You can't be a proper stinky and not know what a cam is! Admit it you're really a saily!

Actually I was about to suggest that fitting a fore upper topgallant staysail should give "Warp" a bit more "weather helm" but would (of course) require strengthening of the lee braces as the increased inclination to leeward when on a beam reach would radically alter the "wetted surface" below the Plimsoll Line.

I am sure our moderator will appreciate the nuances of these calculations.

[Warp]

1 minute ago, Vaughan said:

Actually I was about to suggest that fitting a fore upper topgallant staysail should give "Warp" a bit more "weather helm" but would (of course) require strengthening of the lee braces as the increased inclination to leeward when on a beam reach would radically alter the "wetted surface" below the Plimsoll Line.

I am sure our moderator will appreciate the nuances of these calculations.

I prefer to sail as stiff as possible and what you are suggesting would tend to work better in a more tender situation.

[Vaughan]

2 minutes ago, Warp said:

I prefer to sail as stiff as possible and what you are suggesting would tend to work better in a more tender situation.

You wouldn't half point up to windward though!

[Warp]

2 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

You wouldn't half point up to windward though!

Well she's really got good balance when she gets into the blow but I'm looking for some latitude in her lower gear where she gets a bit wayward before getting going.

[Vaughan]

8 minutes ago, Warp said:

Well she's really got good balance when she gets into the blow but I'm looking for some latitude in her lower gear where she gets a bit wayward before getting going.

This could be traced to a problem with your baggywrinkles.

Actually I stopped sailing a few years ago when I realised I had a Nautical Embolism.

A clot between the tiller and the mainsheet.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Warp said:

Thanks very much for the links all. I am now looking at €150 bronze cam cleats and €180 halyard cleats I never knew I wanted before...

Well, as I'm currently in the process of retro-fitting a 1930s half-decker and completely re-fitting a 1950 motor cruiser, I don't see why I should be the only one to feel the pain.....

Do you have any idea how much brass portlights cost?

[Vaughan]

33 minutes ago, Warp said:

Well she's really got good balance when she gets into the blow but I'm looking for some latitude in her lower gear where she gets a bit wayward before getting going.

This also reminds me of the Norfolk farmer, who had this here roit bootiful young wife.

Trouble on in was, he couldn't keep his hands off her.

In the end he had to pay off his hands and buy one of them there combined harvesters.

[Warp]

15 minutes ago, Spider said:

Well, as I'm currently in the process of retro-fitting a 1930s half-decker and completely re-fitting a 1950 motor cruiser, I don't see why I should be the only one to feel the pain.....

Do you have any idea how much brass portlights cost?

We could look at them as a bargain if we honestly think that were going to be voted out...