Esoteric Saily Question

[Polly]

Warning! Do not read on if  you don't speak 'saily'! 

We are thinking of leading back the peak halyard and topping lift to the cockpit.

Hunters seem to have very nice ratchet cheek blocks according to their videos; does anyone know what these are or have a recommendation that doesn't break the bank? 

[JennyMorgan]

http://www.norfolkmarine.co.uk/shop-online/barton-barton-clutches-deck-organiser-c-1006_1060_1119.html

It would mean having strings running along the cabin top which could be a trip hazard. On Spray it would also mean crossing the lifting and sliding part of the cabin roof which could complicate the matter. No reason why such bits of frippery couldn't come along the cabin side though. On balance we have the roller furling gear coming aft so why not the peak halliard and topping lift? 

[Polly]

 

Thanks Peter.

Running back would be along each side beside the lifting section, so less trippy I think/hope? The clutches are good, need two singles, I think, but the cheek blocks on the tabernacle are a necessity too, I think.

[JennyMorgan]

Pauline, a link to the relevant Hunters video would be good. I'm guessing that they have cheek blocks on the tabernacle so halliards can be lead aft, surely made out of beech or galvanised iron, Hunter's style. The alternative is eyebolts in the deck. Personally I'd send the crew forward, body weight pulling down is simple and effective and the crew will then be ready to moor up.

[Guest]

We hired a Hustler a few years back and I thought that the way the peak and topping lift were set up was excellent, so entirely understand why you are thinking about it. You definitely need cheek blocks, but cheek ratchets may be difficult to find. Harken used to do an excellent range called Hexaratchet - I think there was a cheek block in the range but it is out of production. You could try eBay.

[JennyMorgan]

Cheek block here:

http://www.norfolkmarine.co.uk/shop-online/barton-alloy-cheek-block-51mm-p-10466.html

I feel a waddle around the cruiser moorings at Horning or Wroxham coming on. I'm not sure that you would need ratchet blocks though, hellishly expensive for one thing. If you need a greater purchase then you can always introduce an additional single as perhaps you have on your backstays. You do have backstays, don't you? 

[BroadScot]

57 minutes ago, Polly said:

Warning! Do not read on if  you don't speak 'saily'! 

We are thinking of leading back the peak halyard and topping lift to the cockpit.

Hunters seem to have very nice ratchet cheek blocks according to their videos; does anyone know what these are or have a recommendation that doesn't break the bank? 

You lost me Polly after the word.....Warning !

[JawsOrca]

Halyards, topping lifts, daggerboards, all that

We used to have one of those sailing things.. We tried to design a way to bring back the halyards but it was hard work so we gave up (thankfully we have really wide decks so we didn't really need to).. but it is certainly worth doing.

The main obvious thing to worry about is getting the bit of string passed without catching anywhere.. which is easier said than done.. Our boat had a alloy mast and the string came out half way up so it would have been really hard.. most alloy masts like this need the lines out the foot.. Although I guess your boat the line comes down the mast.. So it should work just to use either a cheek block or a simple block mounted to the tabernacle or cabin top.  Then using eye blocks made out of timber to run the lines neatly back.. (I think this is just what hunters have although I've not been nosy in a long time)... Don't forget you may also need to replace your bits of string with longer ones as the existing ones probably wont reach and you may need to move your winches/cleats etc...

If I was you I'd have a good nosy around other boats and see how they do it..

Toplicht in germany would do all the (timber) bits . (http://www.toplicht.de/en/index/) (although ebay and jumbles is probably a better start)... Be careful with toplicht though.. it may seriously damage your health and you bank account!!! (But some very very lovely stuff in there ).

 

[JennyMorgan]

Poll, re a purchase, a simple 'gun tackle' would probably be more than enough:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_and_tackle#/media/File:Tackles.png

This could be either side of the cheek block on the tabernacle, e.g. against the mast or across the cabin top.

[Vaughan]

Perhaps a silly question - why do you want the topping lift and the peak in the cockpit, but not the main halyard?

Is this so that you can scandalise the sail when mooring, but not actually to lower it?

[JennyMorgan]

Polly, if you want traditional then go here:

http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boatstore/prodtype.asp?strParents=0,186&CAT_ID=148&numRecordPosition=1

[Polly]

Awesome! Thanks for the replies all. 

1 Yes the aim is to scandalise I am happy to leave the throat halyard where it is.

2 Yes, the running rigging is all exterior to the mast so no worries there.

3 The topping lift already is long enough, I think the peak will need more length.

4. I thought ratchets because I could hear a bearing race on the Hunters video, however was already questioning the need, given the cost.

5. More thinking required.....hmmmmm.

[BroadScot]

Just now, Polly said:

5. More thinking required.....hmmmmm.

Now ...that I understood !

[Polly]

Rather than the deck tidy type cleats, I was thinking about the brass/gunmetal tube cleats from classic boat supplies. We have a couple already, but maybe it needs to be more secure....

 

[Polly]

Backstays JM. Ain't got none.

We currently go forward but with novice crew, this is easier. 

[Polly]

The clips are on the Hunters site btw http://www.huntersyard.co.uk/useful-info/instruction-clips/

[Guest]

I don't think tube cleats are a good idea, they come unjammed too easily. I wouldn't want to lose the peak suddenly while under full sail.... Or the boom to suddenly drop a few feet!

[johnb]

1 hour ago, BroadScot said:

You lost me Polly after the word.....Warning !

You mean you understood "esoteric"??!!!!

[Vaughan]

56 minutes ago, Polly said:

5. More thinking required.....hmmmmm.

It's a good idea, but I would also be thinking of raising and lowering the sail, where I would want to "marry" the two halyards until the throat is up tight. You might end up needing two people, one in the cockpit and one up forrard, just to lower the sail!

[JennyMorgan]

44 minutes ago, Polly said:

The clips are on the Hunters site btw http://www.huntersyard.co.uk/useful-info/instruction-clips/

Video 4, all is clear now. Wooden but could be synthetic/metal cheek block on the tabernacle, lead aft through 'eyes' similar to those on your jib sheets leading to jamb cleats on the aft edge of the cabin top, simple. 

Tube cleats, arghh, agreed, not a good idea. 

Lack of backstays, think that I'd wet myself, hurtling down river, squall hits, mast top goes forward of the chain-plates, whoopsy-doo! Not only that, your sail might set better going downwind in anything above a four. 

http://www.norfolkmarine.co.uk/shop-online/barton-maxi-cleat-fairlead-plate-p-13365.html

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Polly said:

Awesome! Thanks for the replies all. 

1 Yes the aim is to scandalise I am happy to leave the throat halyard where it is.

2 Yes, the running rigging is all exterior to the mast so no worries there.

3 The topping lift already is long enough, I think the peak will need more length.

4. I thought ratchets because I could hear a bearing race on the Hunters video, however was already questioning the need, given the cost.

5. More thinking required.....hmmmmm.

Re 4, turn the volume down to nil, it's confusing the issue! I have to say that the noise is incidental but I could be wrong. It would be easier to sweat the halyards against the mast rather than on the cabin top. It wouldn't be a priority for me, unlike backstays. Brilliant, like Spray, is a relatively small boat, I wouldn't complicate the issue unless you really do see a need. Topping lift maybe.

[JennyMorgan]

45 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

It's a good idea, but I would also be thinking of raising and lowering the sail, where I would want to "marry" the two halyards until the throat is up tight. You might end up needing two people, one in the cockpit and one up forrard, just to lower the sail!

On my Drascombe I have just one halliard for hoisting the main, great, couldn't be more simple but I can't adjust the peak. I need the throad halliard bar taunt & the peak just goes where it goes, no adjustment. On Spray, for example, I need to be able to adjust the peak independently to suit the wind. I suspect that Vaughan, like many of us, hauls his sail up with both peak & throat halliards together, fastens off when up then tweeks both halliards independently, that makes sense. However, having the peak halliard led aft might mean that hoisting the sail becomes a two position task, just as Vaughan suggests. The more I think about it the more problematic it becomes. The topping lift, yes. The peak halliard, no, not for me. Vaughan has highlighted the obvious!

[BroadScot]

1 hour ago, johnb said:

You mean you understood "esoteric"??!!!!

Shhhh its confidential !

Iain

[Polly]

Yes I do the same with throat and peak halliards much the easiest way. I think we would prefer the topper led back. Warp and I agreed that the peak was less of a requirement. 

 I am looking at Brilliant's 1929 picture here, can't spot a backstay. Don't think she has ever had one.

 

[Polly]

Esoteric=weird!