Reedham Electric Points

[ExSurveyor]

14 minutes ago, JohnK said:

The BA says Reedham Quay is closed through the winter so why wouldn’t they turn the power off?
They could be accused of unsafe practices if they say the quay is closed but leave power on thereby encouraging people to use it couldn’t they?

The power  is left on at all other 24 hour moorings,  these are considered to be safe enough.

What makes the power posts unsafe at Reedham,  poor design and the absence of an attendant,  who shouldn't be needed to reset a trip switch if the original installation was thought out by someone who actually visited the site and understood the problem.

 

[JennyMorgan]

I would turn them off too, as they are prone to tripping. Indeed I wouldn't turn them back on until they were unlikely to trip, especially in the litigious climate that we have nowadays. Someone got it wrong in the first place, plain and simple.  

[JohnK]

The power  is left on at all other 24 hour moorings,  these are considered to be safe enough.
What makes the power posts unsafe at Reedham,  poor design and the absence of an attendant,  who shouldn't be needed to reset a trip switch if the original installation was thought out by someone who actually visited the site and understood the problem.
 

Are they left on at Norwich and Great Yarmouth?


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[ranworthbreeze]

1 minute ago, JohnK said:

 

Are they left on at Norwich and Great Yarmouth?


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Hi John,

No they are switched off and the yacht stations gates are locked to block public access from the roads and paths.

Regards

Alan

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, JohnK said:

 

Are they left on at Norwich and Great Yarmouth?


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I doubt it and your point is well made, to a point. Reedham is not actually closed, just unmanned. Yarmouth still provides mooring facilities but it it is fenced off and the gates are locked. There is no easy answer to the yacht station situation but it is a fact that other power points do remain usable during the winter, Beccles & Oulton Broad for example. Beccles, by the way, does flood but presumably the posts are more suited to resisting ingress by the wet stuff.

[ExSurveyor]

If I designed and installed an unsafe installation  I would be forced to rip it out and design it so that it was safe in all foreseeable situations.  I doubt that I would be allowed to fudge the issue and suggest it was not used when the majority of the danger was likely to happen.

This is sheer incompetence,  from design to supervision of the project. 

A classic example of too many of the wrong staff.  They quickly get outside consultants in to advise on saving the three spotted whibblewobble.

[JohnK]

Hi John,
No they are switched off and the yacht stations gates are locked to block public access from the roads and paths.
Regards
Alan

They’re being 100% consistent then aren’t they?
All the stations they say are closed have the power turned off don’t they?
Whether they should be closed is a different question isn’t it?



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[JohnK]

I doubt it and your point is well made, to a point. Reedham is not actually closed, just unmanned. Yarmouth still provides mooring facilities but it it is fenced off and the gates are locked. There is no easy answer to the yacht station situation but it is a fact that other power points do remain usable during the winter, Beccles & Oulton Broad for example. Beccles, by the way, does flood but presumably the posts are more suited to resisting ingress by the wet stuff.

Ah, I see your point. Reedham and GY are different.
How about Norwich? Does that get locked up?


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[ExSurveyor]

The yacht stations are closed because the demand for moorings over winter is much less and the cost of collecting a few fees is uneconomic.  As far as I am aware Reedham is free to moor,  so that argument doesn't hold water ( unlike the power  posts )

[JennyMorgan]

12 minutes ago, JohnK said:

 

They’re being 100% consistent then aren’t they?
All the stations they say are closed have the power turned off don’t they?
Whether they should be closed is a different question isn’t it?



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In regard to Authority Yacht Stations but not in regard to Authority moorings in general. I think that we are perhaps being a tad pedantic on this one. In practical terms Reedham is a 52 week a year mooring and in this day and age the electrical installation should reflect that fact. That it can't be relied upon to operate efficiently and safely during an equinoctial tide is pretty damnable!  

[JohnK]

In regard to Authority Yacht Stations but not in regard to Authority moorings in general. I think that we are perhaps being a tad pedantic on this one. In practical terms Reedham is a 52 week a year mooring and in this day and age the electrical installation should reflect that fact. That it can't be relied upon to operate efficiently and safely during an equinoctial tide is pretty damnable!  

Damn it, I’ll have to concede that one
I think the mistake BA have made is saying they’ve turned them off because they trip .... in corporate land it would have been said they’d been turned off because safety is their number one priority blah blah blah The tripping would have been a mere coincidence and probably the fault of the boaters insisting the BA cut costs so they thought the boaters wouldn’t want “premium” power outlets.


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[Islander]

Be careful JohnK the BA will offer you a job in the spin dept.

Colin

[JennyMorgan]

G'night John, fun jousting with you!

[Guest]

Right having spoken to Angie Keeper today I can give BA's view , the quay at reedham reverts back to broad land district council at the end of the season as most already know , now there have been aparantly incidents where the electricity has tripped out and the main breaker that needs to be reset is in the quay rangers hut  , , BA say that they are u likely to get permission to re site the posts from the council but I got the impression they haven't asked that question , the BA line is as much as they are disappointed that the facility has had to me shut down there is nothing they can do , it did seam to me that they didn't want to stand on any toes over this as the council could use it against them regarding coat of lease , they do clearly see reedham as an important safety haven for boaters and appreciate that its sometimes difficult there hence the quay attendant , clearly they are of the mind that since its in council ownership at this time of yr its out of their hands and indeed the council could forbid all mooring with the exception of the lord Nelson's part of the quay which is to my knowledge undefined as to where it starts and ends , I have brought up that the electrical work and indeed the posts themselfs are not fit for purpose , and also that floods topping the quay happen in summer too , but its resetting the breaker's that only BA can do that's to me the problem , on my eyes they shouldn't nerd resetting if they are safe to use , prior to the new metres and cutting and carving the posts and indeed lowering the 32 amp meter I have personally seen posts with 16" or so water up them and still live not tripped out , , the posts at reedham are on small concrete plinths which suggests a problem was known long before installation and yet this location is suffering from tripping .

BA are not in charge at reedham at this time of yr and seemingly not very willing to sort this problem out , coincidentally this is to my knowledge the costs time this has happened and the first time reedham has passed back to the council with the new metres installed , the highest water for quite some time was in 2013 according to EA and yet now reedham has been plagued with posts tripping out , surely alarm bells should be ringing resetting breaker's doesn't cure a problem it masks it .

To me the long and short of it is the up grade is a disaster in reedham something is clearly wrong with the set up and needs more than a sticking plaster on it .

As iv already said these posts are paid for by toll payers to some extent and should be available all yr round as they have been at reedham pre upgrade .

So that's it , BA aren't seemingly willing to step in and carry on in season resetting the post without investigating why they tripped out , I'm sorry but that to me is burying your head in the sand .

[JohnK]

G'night John, fun jousting with you!

Goodnight JM, I’m always up for a good debate.


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[JohnK]

Good on you Ricardo for taking the time to talk to the BA and for posting the result here.
I might not necessarily agree with your conclusions (not that that really matters) but good on you regardless of that!
I’d like to buy you a pint sometime and argue over whether the BA is good or evil


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[Islander]

Thanks for that Ricardo. Interesting response. So if Bramerton, Somerlayton or Whitlingham trip they would send a ranger out to reset it but not to Reedham.

Colin

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, JohnK said:

Good on you Ricardo for taking the time to talk to the BA and for posting the result here.
I might not necessarily agree with your conclusions (not that that really matters) but good on you regardless of that!
I’d like to buy you a pint sometime and argue over whether the BA is good or evil


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No they arnt evil John , I might not agree with something's they do but on the flip side something's they do are spot on.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Islander said:

Thanks for that Ricardo. Interesting response. So if Bramerton, Somerlayton or Whitlingham trip they would send a ranger out to reset it but not to Reedham.

Colin 

Yep that's about the size of it Colin and the reason I got was its not under their control at that time of year despite as I pointed out toll payers contributed towards the posts and that BA own the posts and the hut , maybe BA personal are banned from reedham out of season ? 

[JohnK]

No they arnt evil John , I might not agree with something's they do but on the flip side something's they do are spot on.

I know you don’t really think that, I’m just winding you up


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[Guest ExMemberKingFisher]

So we have established that the BA are not in charge of Reedham during the Winter as it reverts back to Broadland District Council. Therefore I think the crux of the matter is whether the BA 24hr byelaw still applies, or is it then down to BDC to police and enforce it's own byelaws? If it is down to BDC to police, then you can see why they might not be keen on providing any extra facilities that might encourage, or make over staying easier. It has been pointed out that the BA / toll payer have paid for and own the electric post, not the BDC. Therefore they have every right to ask that the facility is removed or disabled once the seasonal lease expires. This appears to be exactly what happens at the yacht stations. I don't see the difference here. Other BA / toll payer facilities disappear at these locations such as the water hoses.

[ExSurveyor]

Are the moorings free to use in the season ?

[Guest ExMemberKingFisher]

Currently. I believe the BA did look into introducing a charge at Reedham a season or two back.

[rightsaidfred]

Without wishing to make this debate even more controversial I think we might do well to remember that the tolls we pay only grant right of access to the waterways, while the tolls money is then supposedly allocated to fund the upkeep of the navigation it is up to the authority which facilities they spend it on and in what proportions, like any public body they can and do provide or withdraw services according to demand and cost and we are all be up in arms when they spend money that could be better used, given that they have no control over this particular location at this time of year one which is also susceptible to flooding and fast tides  why would they maintain a facility that is of benefit to very few people particularly when there are other options for those that are that dependent on electricity, isn't this all a bit of a storm in a teacup when there are far more important issues that affect everyone.

Fred

[Guest ExMemberKingFisher]

Rightsaidfred,

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Perhaps instead of questioning whether the electric posts are fit for purpose etc. We should be questioning whether the BA should be providing such facilities in locations they don't have long term control over?

I can think of another similar location Hardley Mill. The pontoon is privately owned and indeed there is an overnight charge for mooring there. There are also electric posts which I am almost certain have been provided by the BA, on the basis they accept the same cards and have had the same upgrade to the meters. To the best of my knowledge this mooring doesn't close during the Winter? However if the owner decided he wanted the electric posts disabled during the Winter period, would he be entitled to? If he decided to close the mooring during the Winter period and wanted the posts disabled and covered over, or even removed, would he be entitled to? Much as I wouldn't want to lose the facility, at the end of the day, it would be the land owners choice, even though the posts may have been toll payer funded. I really don't see the difference between that possible scenario and the one at Reedham and the yacht stations.