Boat Documentation Research F.b Wild Ltd

[CapitainFrenchy]

Hello,

I am looking for documentation on the motorization and more particularly the hydrostatic transmission system of the boats WILD type Calypso-Bermuda-Carribean-Bahama?

Diagrams, plans, nomenclatures or references, and marks of equipment used, to consider using a similar transmission for a riverboat.

Photos or plans scanner, in PdF format of good quality are welcome.

[Vaughan]

The system is hydraulic not hydrostatic, since it is fluid in motion.

Wilds had some of the first boats with a rear engine, outside the living space, which was made possible by hydraulic drive. Some of their early drives are still going well but they are a bit dated and lose quite a lot of horsepower from the engine. Modern drives are much more efficient and are almost maintenance free.

I suggest you contact Peachments in Brundall, who make and install hydraulic drives.

[CapitainFrenchy]

Hello Vaughan,
  thank you for your reply.
In France, we call these systems hydrostatic, a translation difference can be?
I contact the address you provided me.

[unclemike]

a very useful page here;-http://www.fbwilds.horning.org.uk/

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, CapitainFrenchy said:

Hello Vaughan,
  thank you for your reply.
In France, we call these systems hydrostatic, a translation difference can be?
I contact the address you provided me.

I was wondering if you had been introduced to these boats on the canals and rivers in France, where they were introduced by Wilds as "Blue Line" in the 1970s. It is said that the commercial success of Blue Line saved the Canal du Midi from being closed in those days. I still know people in the business on the Midi who refer to the old companies of what is now "Le Boat" as "La Blue".

All of the Wilds Bermudas and Caribbeans that I knew in France had Perkins 4108 engines attached to a hydraulic drive. 

As a hire fleet operator I can recommend hydraulic drive. It has a lot of advantages :

No need for shaft alignment to the engine.

A very "soft" gear change which does not damage the flywheel thrust plate.

The ability to put the engine where you want it : it does not have to be "fore and aft" in the centre of the boat.

A pressure relief bypass so there is no damage if the propellor gets fouled.

Almost entire lack of maintenance. You change the oil filter every 2 years and you never have to change the oil, unless it becomes contaminated, through damage.

The disadvantage is that it is expensive to install, compared to the standard "hydro mechanical" gearbox but over the years, "you get what you pay for".

 

[CapitainFrenchy]

@Chameleon thank you for the link

@Vaughan  Exactly !  it is besides, what I prefer in this system, with precisely its advantages make me choose that.
for the price, I hope DIY ... or search for various documentation

[CapitainFrenchy]

@Vaughan

As a rental fleet operator, what a chance.

are there still wilds in operation in the fleet? some photos to realize the equipment used in the hydraulic installation, help me a lot.

[webntweb]

Don't suppose these are much use to you as they show a Nanni installed in a Connoisseur Magnifique.

I presume its hydraulic as the engine is transverse. Maybe a similar sort of set up?

[CapitainFrenchy]

@webntweb

Thank you very much, that's exactly what I'm looking for.
all that is missing is that an owner can scan me a diagram or provide the marks of the original equipment, which I find the current equivalent.
that's great !

[CapitainFrenchy]

Hello, Thanks to you, I found a supplier of equipment for the hydraulic of the Wilds, unfortunately, my email and my request for quotation remain unanswered.

[CapitainFrenchy]

Hello all. I come back to call on all of you, not speaking English, I cannot reach the company by telephone, the coordinates of which you have given me. after several messages in English, contact, email, and contact on their site, no response from them comes back to me. If one of you know them well to understand the origin of the lack of response from their service. thanking you for your help. cordially.

[QuarAmar]

On 06/03/2020 at 10:47, CapitainFrenchy said:

Hello all. I come back to call on all of you, not speaking English, I cannot reach the company by telephone, the coordinates of which you have given me. after several messages in English, contact, email, and contact on their site, no response from them comes back to me. If one of you know them well to understand the origin of the lack of response from their service. thanking you for your help. cordially.

I realise it is a couple of years since this post but would be interested in the details of the hydraulic drive suppliers that you found.  I have a Wilds Calypso and am looking into adding an electric motor driven hydraulic pump as an alternative to the diesel.

[annv]

Hi Amar You would be better of having direct electric drive, it is not a good idea to have electric/hydraulic drive, with just electric you would only need one controller it would also be 20% more economical. John

[QuarAmar]

Thanks, I realise that direct electric drive would be more efficient and cost effective and that is where I may end up.  For now though I would like to see if I can add a separate electric motor driven hydraulic pump to the existing hydraulic drive and benefit from using the existing controls.  It seems possible to couple this into the existing hydraulic drive unit.  If successful this would give me a dual electric/diesel drive and the possibility of eventually going all electric.

[annv]

Sorry Amar i cant see your logic,  how will you charge your battery's?. John

[QuarAmar]

Thanks John,

My mooring power hook up should meet most of my needs ( 3 to 4 hr round trips) but it will be handy to have the diesel available as a backup or for longer trips.

I may look into solar as part of the evolution to all electric.

Any info on electronic motor hydraulic pumps to consider would be greatly appreciated.

Martin

[Vaughan]

12 hours ago, annv said:

Sorry Amar i cant see your logic, 

I also can't see how you are going to connect two hydraulic pumps to the same hydraulic motor.

Electric propulsion motors are quite big - you certainly wouldn't have room for it in the engine compartment as well as the diesel, so it would have to be inside the boat, presumably hidden in the galley.  In which case you may as well connect it straight to the shaft and use the engine for direct diesel/electric propulsion and/or as a current generator.

You would need a new shaft, tube and bearings as the existing motor does not have one.

If you are keen on the hydraulic idea I suggest you talk to Peachments in Brundall, who make marine hydraulic drives.

[grendel]

slightly related, but I have seen plant equipment that has a main hydraulic drive that also has a backup electrical pump, eg scissor lifts and cherry pickers, where if the main engine fails, the electric pump will get the person safely to the ground, but that is purely an emergency backup, I dont know how long it would run the hydraulics on the battery, I suspect power drain and the battery bank will be the limiting factor.

[Vaughan]

2 minutes ago, grendel said:

the electric pump will get the person safely to the ground, but that is purely an emergency backup,

I would guess that it would be in the form of a slow pressure release, to lower the platform under control.  I doubt it would be able to pump the platform "up".

[Vaughan]

41 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I also can't see how you are going to connect two hydraulic pumps to the same hydraulic motor.

Although you can connect two motors to the same pump. That is how hydraulic bow thrusters work.

[grendel]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

I would guess that it would be in the form of a slow pressure release, to lower the platform under control.  I doubt it would be able to pump the platform "up".

in the video I watched, they did have full control, including lift functions, I am just not sure how long it would run purely on electric

[grendel]

doing some research, and on the assumption that the hydraulic pump and motor would need to be similar in power to a diesel engine, (I worked on 40hp) the equivalent electric motor would be in the 30kW range, with a current draw of about 100A at 220V, so for each hour of usage you will require 30,000 Wh (1250Ah at 24V) thats a large chunk of batteries, and while boats dont have as much of an issue carrying a large battery bank, its still a consideration

[QuarAmar]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the wealth of wisdom and experience on this forum. To complete the drive train I’ve attached a pic of the hydraulic motor which drives the prop shaft.  This project is very much going to be a journey of discovery.

Fortunately having 2.5m beam, there is plenty of room for a motor and pump set on the other side of partition behind the hydraulic unit shown in the previous pic I posted, which is also conveniently below the batteries.

I plan to start with an electric motor driven hydraulic pump that can at least serve as a trolling motor. Whatever is readily available to deliver around 50 l/min hydraulic fluid from the existing reservoir at around 200 bar, which I think is about mid range on the current set up.  
Either manifolds or Tee-connections and non-return valves should enable it to supply the existing hydraulic unit.

If this works the beauty is it is modular and can be supplemented by another similar or larger sized version in due course.  Further advantages are lesser cost in using smaller units for proof of concept.  
Any further thoughts and comments are most welcome.

[Vaughan]

4 minutes ago, QuarAmar said:

 

That is a very new installation and looks good.  The boat wasn't built like that!

[QuarAmar]

Thanks Vaughan,

I think the hoses, bracket and universal joint couplings were replaced in a refurb around 15 years ago. Here is a better pic of the hydraulic motor from above. Looks old, but may not be original.