Winters cruise

[w44nty]

I shall be taking Rosie on a trip from Ranworth to Norwich in 2weeks time ,what is a realistic journey time,bearing in mind I want to be at Yarmouth at low water to cross Breydon.

We have never ventured that far since I have had her,we are looking to stay in Norwich for a couple of years.

[Antares_9]

At the speed limits plus a bit on deserted stretches I would count on about 5.5 to 6 hours plus Breydon crossing time, that obviously depends on how fast your boat is. If you leave Ranworth at about 2 1/2hrs before slack low at Yarmouth that should about do you. At that time of the year make sure you and the ship are well kitted and do not do it on your own especially as it is likely some of it will be in darkness.

[w44nty]

Thanks

Rosie has a 15hp 4 stroke Suzuki ,I have never had her flat out,but I would say about 8 knots is max speed with the tide with us,if I allow 3 hours to Yarmouth would that be enough to get there for low slack water for crossing Breydon.

Also I want to arrive in Norwich in daylight hours

[NorfolkNog]

Very useful site for tide tables, just click on the bit near the yellow arrow.

http://www.norfolk-broads.org/tides/broadstides.asp

I think I have had mod approval to post this in the past

Great time to be out, should be quiet enough!!!!

[petersjoy]

After Breydon i would say fron Berney Arms you would at least another 3/3.5 hrs to get to Norwich.

[Antares_9]

Also I want to arrive in Norwich in daylight hours

You really are going to have to pick your tides then, with that speed then you could be into a total trip time of 7 to 8 hours which at this time of year is almost all the daylight you will get. So a bit of time with the tide tables and sunrise / sunset data and pick a day that coincides, luckily as it's you then at least you are not restricted to weekends.

[Boaters]

If you are running an outboard it may help to know there is a garage on the main road not many yards from Marina Keys on the river as you enter GT Yarmouth.We have been through with friends who have found it usefull as petrol is not readily available I dont think for some miles .Have a good trip .

[goodall_m1]

I would say about 8 knots is max speed with the tide with us

I realise that you are going into unknown waters but remember that the speed limit is "Speed over the ground" and is in miles an hour!

And I think that you cant get up to 8 legally anywhere except on Breydon...

Can you plane a boat at 8 knots?

I hope you have a good trip!

Martin

[w44nty]

I shall have to pick a day when it is low tide at GY between 9:30 -11:00,that way I should make it to Norwich (Thorpe) in day light,I don,t mind starting out in the dark Rosie is fitted with Nav light etc alsoI am familiar with the southside.

My friend and fellow boat owner Twobagsbrooks is keeping me company,we shall take plenty of supplies for hot drinks etc,mobile phones,and all the normal safety bits .

Having a 4 stroke engine I will not need to take much fuel with me ,enought to refill and some spare.

my current moorings at Ranworth are frozen solid at the moment so I cannot go anywhere until it defrosts.

My contingency is to do it over 2 days,ie moor up at Reedham and get my son to pick me up and return next day for onward trip to Norwich

[Guest]

Can you plane a boat at 8 knots?

No.

9.2 mph In that size of craft would be well into the transition between displacement and planing speeds, and would use much more fuel than normal. A Norman 18 has a waterline length of about 16ft, so the maximum possible displacement speed without wasting lots of fuel is going to be about 6 mph. Up to that speed, a good 15hp 4 stroke engine will give good economy, maybe around 10mpg. Pushed to 8 knots though, she may only do a quarter of that. Those hulls can plane (on Breydon ), but they need at least 50hp to "get over the hump", given average loadings.

[mbird]

HI Wanty

I did HiCraft in Norwich (near the A47 viaduct) to Womack water a couple of years ago in 8 hours, but that included getting the tide wrong at Breydon and towing another boat the whole way.

[w44nty]

HI Wanty

I did HiCraft in Norwich (near the A47 viaduct) to Womack water a couple of years ago in 8 hours, but that included getting the tide wrong at Breydon and towing another boat the whole way.

Thats where I am mooring, at City Boats,A tow would be nice,fancy a day out?,I might even get on the plane over Breydon if you are towing me at about 20 knots

[NorfolkNog]

The next slack water window at GY from around 9 – 11.30 is 11th – 14th Jan, next is around 25th – 28th.

Ranworth Dyke to GY is 18 miles and GY to Thorpe is 25, The tide does tend to ebb down the Bure even after slack water due to the narrow channel, but this can be used to advantage. Good luck!!

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

I realise that you are going into unknown waters but remember that the speed limit is "Speed over the ground" and is in miles an hour!

And I think that you cant get up to 8 legally anywhere except on Breydon...

Can you plane a boat at 8 knots?

I hope you have a good trip!

Martin

I would have thought that "speed over ground" is irrelavent on "tidal " rivers, as technically, if you were punching a spring tide on the lower Yare, or Waveney, you could be breaking the speed limit while standing still over ground. I think you`ll find the "legal" speed of a boat is rellavent to the speed of the tide, so if you`re going WITH a 4mph tide, 8mph over ground will be quite legitamate. Also, regarding a fuel stop, there is a fuel station at Asda`s at the Yarmouth end of Breydon water. Sounds like a good trip though, and one i`ve done a couple of times, but with the tide with us on the yare. If you`re going to try and get the best of the tide from Yarmouth to Thorpe, i would think it better to time your arrival at Yarmouth about 2-3 hours after low slack water which would mean you should have the strongest part of the tide WITH you all the way to Thorpe. This WOULD however mean punching the tide for a short while on the lower Bure, but that would be a lot less of a problem than "overtaking" the tide on the Yare, resulting in you punching a much stronger tide somewhere after Reedham, and for a much longer time. Well that`s my theory, but does anybody have any different thoughts. Regards and a happy new year to all ................... Neil.

[Antares_9]

Neil, Broads speed limits are SOG as that is the only reliable way to measure by radar, STW would as you say make a lot more sense from a purely wash point of view but the limits everywhere including harbours are SOG.

[Guest]

Neil, Broads speed limits are SOG as that is the only reliable way to measure by radar, STW would as you say make a lot more sense from a purely wash point of view but the limits everywhere including harbours are SOG.

Yes, something that regularly catches hirers with the Yard's simplistic revs=knots guide tables.

Even as high up as Thurne Mouth or Brundall, the full Flood/Ebb difference is around 3mph.

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Well that`s something i`ve learned today, as i`ve always been given to understand that the speeds on the rivers are over water rather than ground, especially as very few boats (if any?) have the ability to measure their speed over the ground. The next time i get told to slow down while punching a tide, i`l tell the ranger i`m NOT speeding.

[Antares_9]

The next time i get told to slow down while punching a tide, i`l tell the ranger i`m NOT speeding.

And he'll probably tell you that in that case you are causing excess wash which is also an offence, you can't win Neil.

That said they have in my experience been a bit lenient when I've been with a good tide and a bit over the limit.

[Soundings]

Of course, speed has to be assessed alongside prevailing conditions - weather and surroundings. It is not just the result of an electronic calculation, or should not be.

[senator]

That is the whole point, speed is not assessed with anything else, if you are speeding, i.e. travelling above the speed limit over ground, then you are speeding and can be prosecuted despite the 3 knots pushing you along.

You can still be prosecuted if travelling at the speed limit for causing excess wash but that is not speeding.

Add to that, if you decide to stick to the speed limit with 3 knots behind you but need 4 knots to maintain steerage you will also be prosecuted when you hit something for failing to maintain steerage of your vessel as it is the masters legal responsibility to do.

[Antares_9]

Fortunately the regs do allow exess speed to maintain steerage, shame the Reedham parking attendant doesn't understand that.

[senator]

Can't find any specific exclusion in the BA speed limit Bye Laws for maintaining steerage, You could state that it was a reasonable excuse as a defence but it is not listed in the three reasonable excuses they summarise.

There is obviously the old chestnut that you must operate your vessel in a safe way but that is a bit of a catch all excuse and far too easy to fall back on.

Surely someone can come up with a more imaginative reason that the speed limit had to be exceeded?

[Antares_9]

The three reasonable excuses are simply examples Ian, I can imagine few better excuses than not being able to steer the boat safely without exceeding the SOG limit with the tide provided it’s not causing wash and I challenge anybody to quote a prosecution, let alone a successful one in such circumstances.

Don't be such a pedant, that's my job.

[senator]

Has anyone ever been prosecuted for doing 6mph in a 4mph Zone?

The total vagueness of the whole thing would to my mind make obtaining a prosecution for speeding virtually impossible if the speed was anywhere close to the legal limit with a following flow, especially given that there is no legal requirement to carry speed indicating equipment and even if you do, it will not be accurate enough to stand up in court at river speeds.

Plane up and down the river and you deserve what you get, short of that I think it is always going to be hard to prove.

I suppose for a radar trap you could set it so that you were monitoring speed only during a single state of tide and against the flow, that way there could be no argument concerning current as your speed through the water would be SOG + flow. Even then you still have to take into account the fact that the only piece of equipment capable of accurately measuring speed is the radar gun, so there has to be a reasonable margin for error.

[w44nty]

Thanks for all the tips and offers of help,I don't think speeding will apply to me much as I shall be chugging along.

We are looking to make the trip Ranworth to Thorpe next week,either Thursday or Friday,I think they are the best tides to do it in a day,am I correct in saying the best time to cross breydon is at slack low water and this is about 1 hr 15 min after low water?

Any help with set off times,tide times etc and stops for a break will be appreciated

Thanks again