Gregafloat Is Back!

[GregAfloat]

I am certain I used to have an account on this site, but the software has changed since I was last here (some 10 years ago) and I guess I got expunged for non-use.

Back then my main interest was my SeaHawk17 and I still maintain that web site, although my boat was sold in 2018.

Now I have a Hampton Safari MkIII and you can find some of the tale behind that purchase on the GregAfloat site.

I was aware of two sources of info about the Safari when I bought my boat. There's a little history on the Shorebase site and a variety of information on the HSBC site. As is understandable, the club site has a certain focus on its members rather than the boats themselves. However, the big trouble is that the Shorebase site has been untouched since 2010 and neither is mobile friendly and near unusable on modern portable devices, which is how most access the web these days. I gather there is also a Facebook group but I avoid social media and that is largely inaccessible to folk like me.

So I have done what I did when I bought my SeaHawk, I have started my own Hampton Safari site. Currently, it concentrates on the history of the various versions and their builders. Some of it is speculative and I still have much to add. I would welcome any corrections, updates and additional information that people might have. I am also looking for photographs illustrating the many different fit-outs that some thirty different builders did, to try to identify which hire fleets bought in complete boats from Hampton and which fitted out their own.

I'm still in the process of digging information out of the one other source of information, Craig Slawson's Database. As many will know control of the database changed hands after Craig's death and I gather much is being done behind the scenes. I'm having to go through a third party to offer help which, so far, has been ignored, which is a shame because, as I research further, I am finding a few errors in the data about Safaris.
 

[GregAfloat]

Oops! Forgot to mention Dan Horner, who has been very helpful, supplying various images, not all in use yet!

[JanetAnne]

On 06/11/2023 at 10:28, GregAfloat said:

 

I'm still in the process of digging information out of the one other source of information, Craig Slawson's Database. As many will know control of the database changed hands after Craig's death and I gather much is being done behind the scenes. I'm having to go through a third party to offer help which, so far, has been ignored, which is a shame because, as I research further, I am finding a few errors in the data about Safaris.
 

And now you have found the first party who was not aware of either yourself or your offers until today!

The database is now in my care and has been since I took over probably around the end of last year. The first task was to preserve and protect what I had acquired followed by a thorough examination and assessment. That process highlighted areas in need of immediate attention to keep the current databases running on its existing but now out of date and no longer supported softwear whilst the teckys designed it's replacement. That replacement is now running and being populated with the first wave of data. In the near future you'll all get the chance to test it after which we will continue to build it up in layers.

The database holds well over 40.000 boats and attracts tens of thousands of visitors every month. Getting it right takes precedence over timescale and is the number one priority. The challenge has certainly kept us busy.... well, it's kept the clever ones busy, I just offer enthusiasm and pay the hosting fees!

 

[GregAfloat]

I'll have to have words with Sue about that lack of knowledge. She assured me she'd passed my name to you. But that doesn't matter too much now.

Grendel may have passed you some of the information I shared with him. I'd appreciate the opportunity to talk with you or your techies about my thoughts on what I have found so far, and whether it's just corrected data or something else I can contribute to the project. Shall we move to PMs and, perhaps, a phone call?

[JanetAnne]

Apologies. Just been back through my communications with Sue and yes, back in March she did indeed forward your details along with the following,

Hi Sue,

Yes, please, do pass on my details. I'm not surprised about the decision to change some of the software. The world is ever-changing. I've done the same with a number of my sites and am still working through another change of platform for one of the biggest currently.

Love the idea of testing things. Generally the more people you have to dream up ways of not doing the expected the better from a testing point of view and I'm willing to take on a bit of moderation (always assuming it's not a bigger task than I  imagine).

And if it does turn out that I'm not completely out of my depth with underlying code, willing to do what I can with that too, but it sounds as if that side of things might be almost ready. 

 

As you can imagine, there have been lots of offers of help many of which were more motivated by what they could make out of the database rather than what they could offer. They are all returned with a polite 'no thank you'. However, the genuine offers, like yours, are kept for when we are ready as you can see above. The database will remain free to use, free of adverts and I have no desire nor intention to generate income from it.

You are welcome to my phone number (pm sent) but I am happy to discuss on open forum as it also allows others to contribute which can be really productive.

Cheers

[GregAfloat]

Thanks for the phone number.

I'm reassured to see that Sue had done as promised. No apology needed from you.  You're not alone in missing the odd email. I have been known to be swamped with them and find one marked read months later of which I have no recollection. It's something I've come to terms with at my age.

I'm also happy to keep the discussion about the development of Craig's work in open forum, Is there an old topic we could revive, or is it appropriate to start a new one?

=========

(I'm still struggling to come to terms with exactly how this forum package works. It's not one I've encountered before and seems to be "post-socialmedia" in design, with all its "Likes" and "Reactions". I only have one social media account and that I only opened a couple of months ago as an experiment. It's on Mastodon where I seem to be the only person posting regularly on the Norfolk Broads, but I'm now ensconced with a friendly group of Continuous Cruisers on the Canals and American Great Loopers.)

[grendel]

2 hours ago, GregAfloat said:

I'm still struggling to come to terms with exactly how this forum package works.

dont worry, you are not alone, I am on the tech team and i still struggle sometimes- we use a hosted forum, and for any major issues just call the hosting company and ask them to fix it. though it does mean the forum can go offline at strange times (when they consider its the middle of the night and nobody will notice, but its 6am here.)

[JanetAnne]

36 minutes ago, grendel said:

..though it does mean the forum can go offline at strange times (when they consider its the middle of the night and nobody will notice, but its 6am here.)

Is that the hosting company? I was always told it was down to you 

[Vaughan]

3 hours ago, GregAfloat said:

(I'm still struggling to come to terms with exactly how this forum package works. It's not one I've encountered before and seems to be "post-socialmedia" in design, with all its "Likes" and "Reactions".

That's exactly how we like it, thank you and long may it continue.

Sods' second law of engineering states :

If it is running smoothly and performing as it should - don't bugger about with it.

[Vaughan]

3 hours ago, GregAfloat said:

but I'm now ensconced with a friendly group of Continuous Cruisers on the Canals and American Great Loopers.)

Good for you, although I have never heard it called the Great Loop before, having been involved in hire boat charter on the Hudson River and Erie Canal in New York State, as well as the Intracoastal Waterway on the Gulf Coast of Florida.

[oldgregg]

7 hours ago, GregAfloat said:

(I'm still struggling to come to terms with exactly how this forum package works. It's not one I've encountered before and seems to be "post-socialmedia" in design, with all its "Likes" and "Reactions". 

You'll find that this forum software is used a lot by larger organisations, but is less common in a 'hobbyist' environment as it's not free.

Invision Community is a SAAS offering so we don't have to maintain our own infrastructure any more (virtual or otherwise) and as others have said the product is managed. There are pros and cons of course, but it's a pretty solid product in general and has probably embraced the social media age better than most.

[oldgregg]

18 hours ago, GregAfloat said:

I'd appreciate the opportunity to talk with you or your techies about my thoughts on what I have found so far, and whether it's just corrected data or something else I can contribute to the project.

At this stage the team is working on the information architecture and the overall solution design. 

One thing that was immediately apparent was that the current database isn't sustainable for a number of reasons, so the whole thing is being re-platformed.

What this means ultimately is that there is quite a lot of work just to get to where the existing solution is at, however we then no longer have to worry about hosting companies refusing to host it any more and can also get it into a position where it is much easier to update.

You will see the database migrate in phases, and the first phase will not have all of the functionality that the current site does - However the core will be there. We will then be able to update it and add back the other functionality (along with some new) over time.

All of the data is safe, we have it backed up and have backups of the backups. Once the new database is live, we'll be able to layer on the additional data.

The existing solution is quite complex and very bespoke so it's a fairly big project to migrate. All of the work is being done by volunteers in their spare time.

[GregAfloat]

On 08/11/2023 at 18:12, oldgregg said:

All of the data is safe, we have it backed up and have backups of the backups. Once the new database is live, we'll be able to layer on the additional data.

Thanks for the info, oldgregg, and I can say that as a 2Gs Greg (Often people take me to be a baker, or spelt like one. )

As you'll have seen, I'm keen to offer help in getting the revised database live as soon as possible. You clearly have a staged plan worked out, but you don't reveal what the time scales are for each step or if you need additional help to achieve the next step. Are you on schedule? If not, what's causing the hold up?

I understand, or is it assume, that the plan is to develop a system where a team of authorised people can login to maintain and update the database. That's very reasonable, as is the intention to migrate the data to a platform likely to be supported well into the future.

What you haven't revealed is how anyone outside the existing team can contribute. How do people like me, who believe they may have some of the skills needed, find out what the current needs are?

I heard yesterday that Kerris, Craig's widow, is anxious to see the database operational again. Do you report to her on your progress? Is there blog that tells others where you're up to in your plan, and when you expect to achieve the next step and what may be preventing you reach that step?

While you are working on your proposed system, is it possible for anyone, perhaps just one or two, not a large team, to step into Craig's shoes and keep the existing database updated, while your work continues in the background? You mention hosting issues but, to the public, there appears to be a readable if "frozen" copy still running, albeit with "danger" warnings on some browsers because SSL has not been implemented. Has any of the data been updated since Craig's death? If not what prevents you doing that? Surely it would be good to have a current data set ready to transfer once the revised system is ready for testing?

I promised to call Janetanne within the next couple of days, but having an understanding of some of these technical issues before that call might be helpful.

[grendel]

I think the important thing to note is that both the forum and Craigs Database are being run purely by volunteers in their spare time, this inevitably means things progress slower than they otherwise would be as they are fitted into those quiet moments in  peoples lives. how to publish timescales when at any moment life or (sorry for swearing here ) Work intrude upon the time available.

the important part is that the hosting of the database is sorted so it wont just disappear, the data is safe. 

I dont understand much, but I do understand that keeping the current iteration of the database up to date with new data would require specialist knowledge so would be outside the realms of most of us - this will be made easier with the new database I understand, so the experts we have who are working on the new system in their spare time, are the same people who would be spending time adding new information to the old system, which would slow down the work on the new.

so while on the surface it doesnt seem that much is happening, below the surface they are paddling along frantically to achieve that smooth serene swan like glide on the surface.

[Vaughan]

On 10/11/2023 at 00:08, GregAfloat said:

You clearly have a staged plan worked out, but you don't reveal what the time scales are for each step or if you need additional help to achieve the next step. Are you on schedule? If not, what's causing the hold up?

As a complete outsider in all this and as someone without any of the IT skills - I wouldn't know a gigabyte if it came and bit me in the ankle - could I perhaps suggest that there might be a subtle difference here, between offering assistance, and muscling in?

Your tone of assertive questioning seems, to me, overbearing to a team who are clearly doing their best.  I wonder if it is reasonable that they should have to explain themselves in such detail?

[JanetAnne]

This will be my only response.

You state that Craig's widow is anxious to see the database up and running again and had communicated this to you? I am not aware that the database isn't running nor am I aware that it hasn't run at any time before or since I took over ownership. Craig was a bloody genius! He built his database over many years using what we'd term a 'hobbyist' platform and, by using a selection of bolt on's, managed to product the site you all use daily. However, that site is now 'clunky' extremely fragile to update using it's existing softwear and, as Craig told me back in probably 2018, he was now spending more time maintaining it than updating it. 

When I finally took over in 2022 I had it technically evaluated and it became clear that it was not sustainable in its current form. Its softwear is way out of date and no updates are available. Decisions were made to safeguard the current site, protect the data etc etc which allows it to still be accessable to you all. At this stage trying to update it could destabilise the whole thing and so it is my choice that it remains intact and still available as is.

I am sorry if that doesn't suit.

 

Our new platform is coming along nicely. I am constantly amazed at what is being put together. We do have an approximate timescale, the site architecture is in place and the 'industrial grade' operating package now being fine tuned. My tecky team are the same team that built and maintain this forum (also voluntarily) and, whilst it's taking time, the end result will, like this forum, be future proof, stable, reliable and, maybe most importantly for you, everyone will be able to submit updates through the database including photographs.  I think it'll be worth the wait.

 

Yes, we do have constant updates between our team. Thanks for asking. Mrs Slawson has not asked to be part those updates, in fact I was under the impression that she was moving on so to speak. In time we will be hoping to increase our team with other like minded souls who can rub along well and enjoy building the data back up together. As you can imagine, I have quite a list of people waiting the call.

I place my confidence in oldgregg to pull this off. He's far too over qualified to be doing what he does for me and will have given many hundreds of hours by the time this goes live. He also co-opts others for their skills as and when he needs them and if they have a specific expertise he requires. As you can imagine, it can take longer to explain to someone what you want doing than it takes to actually do it yourself so he has free range on this obviously.

Dave

 

[Lulu]

Just happy the site is in safe hands. A huge thank you to all those working behind the scenes on this important project and it doesnt matter how long it takes, the current information has been preserved and at least we can all still access it.